The Instigator
BronsonC
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
EAT_IT_SUKA
Con (against)
Winning
9 Points

Kobe Bryant will go down as the second greatest NBA player to play the game.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
EAT_IT_SUKA
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/28/2015 Category: Sports
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 894 times Debate No: 72485
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

BronsonC

Pro

Kobe Bryant is the second best NBA player to play the game because he is the only player that was able to do some of the things that Michael Jordan could do. Kobe is an amazing clutch player and he is a powerful dunker. He can shoot from almost anywhere on the court. Except for MJ, no one can top him.
EAT_IT_SUKA

Con

Hello, PRO. Your thesis is: 'Kobe Bryant will go down as the second greatest NBA player to play the game.' My thesis is: 'Kobe Bryant will not go down as the second greatest NBA player to play the game.'

The burden of proof is on PRO to prove that, without a doubt, Kobe Bryant will be the second-best NBA player to play the game. I have to prove either that:
a) Kobe Bryant will not go Down as the Second-Best NBA player to play the game, or:
b) There is not enough evidence to prove that Kobe Bryant will be the Second-Best NBA Player to Play the Game

Of course, PRO does not have enough evidence to prove that Kobe Bryant will be the second-best player that will play in the NBA, just as PRO doesn't have enough evidence to prove that Michael Jordan will be the best player to play the game. Maybe another player who is better than Kobe will enter in the NBA in the next NBA draft, or in the NBA draft 5 years from now, or in the NBA draft 10 years from now. Maybe a basketball player better than Michael Jordan and Kobe will enter the NBA in 2 years, or 10 years, or 20 years. Or perhaps a current NBA player will completely step up their game and surpass Kobe. Who knows? It is possible that Kobe is the second-best player right now, but the statement 'Kobe Bryant will go down as the second greatest NBA player to play the game,' is a shot in the dark.

I just demonstrated that there is not enough evidence to prove that Kobe Bryant will go down as the best NBA player to play the game. Therefore, vote CON.
Debate Round No. 1
BronsonC

Pro

Hello CON. I suppose I should set a few definitions straight. When I say 'Kobe Bryant will go down as the second greatest NBA player to play the game' I am saying that when he retires he will be the second best. I am not talking about the future, so that part of your argument would be irrelevant.

I believe that Michael Jordan is the best NBA player right now. No one could do the things he could do, so this could bring up another form of ranking all of the NBA players. I could rank them by who resembles Michael Jordan the most since he is the best. (if you don't believe he is the best, I have another debate ready for anyone who wants to join.) In this case I would have to put Kobe Bryant at number 2, since he can, not only, shoot well from the perimeter like Jordan, but he can also drive in to the basket like Jordan, and can pull some of the spin moves like Jordan. No center can do that and other players like Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and LeBron James couldn't do that. He has one of the most consistent jump shots ever as well. Sure, he is third on the all time scoring list, but that is mainly because Kareem and Karl just stand under the basket, wait for the ball, turn and shoot an easy basket.

One more thing. If Kobe Bryant is not the second best player in the NBA, who is then? I have just given some evidence that Kobe Bryant could be the second best player in the NBA. And since CON has not said that someone should be in Kobe's place, I urge you to vote PRO.
EAT_IT_SUKA

Con

PRO stated:

'Hello CON. I suppose I should set a few definitions straight. When I say 'Kobe Bryant will go down as the second greatest NBA player to play the game' I am saying that when he retires he will be the second best. I am not talking about the future, so that part of your argument would be irrelevant.'

PRO basically just changed his resolution in round 2. You cannot even change your resolution once your debate is accepted, because I accepted what the resolution was, not what PRO decided to debate after. PRO's change-up of the resolution is ridiculous because (s)he knows (s)he would have lost if I argued against his/her resolution--which I did, and now I am in a debate I never accepted. Therefore, I absolutely refuse to argue against PRO's new resolution. If PRO still uses his new resolution, vote CON. I'm sure you understand.

PRO also stated:

'One more thing. If Kobe Bryant is not the second best player in the NBA, who is then? I have just given some evidence that Kobe Bryant could be the second best player in the NBA. And since CON has not said that someone should be in Kobe's place, I urge you to vote PRO.'

Yes. You gave evidence that Kobe may be the second-best player in the NBA, but your burden of proof isn't fulfilled--you haven't given enough evidence. Until you have shown that nobody else in the NBA other than Kobe has the potential to step up their game to be the second-best, your burden of proof isn't fulfilled. Even then, your burden of proof isn't fulfilled, because you have to prove that every future-NBA player doesn't have the potential to be the second-best player to play in the NBA. Until you have done that, you have lost this debate.

Because PRO tried to change his/her resolution unfairly because (s)he knows that (s)he would have lost if (s)he used his/her original, fair resolution, leaving me refusing to debate with his recently-changed resolution because I never accepted it, therefore making us debating the actual resolution and not what PRO tried to change it to, vote CON.
Debate Round No. 2
BronsonC

Pro

First of all, I did not change my resolution. It said that 'Kobe Bryant will go down as the second best player' as in when he retires. Besides, I did not say that Kobe is the second best of 'all time'. Since CON is claiming that I changed my resolution, I take it that he thought he was going to lose to my 'first' resolution, and because of this, vote PRO.

CON has also not given any evidence that Kobe Bryant is not the second best player in the game. He has stated that I have not given enough evidence. Last I checked, 'not enough' evidence is better than none at all. And until CON can 'fulfill the burden of proof' and give evidence that Kobe is not the second best player, I assume he has agreed with me and that his arguments would then be irrelevent. Because of these reasons, I urge you to vote PRO.
EAT_IT_SUKA

Con

No, if you meant that Kobe Bryant will go down as the second best player as in when he retires, then why did you 'write will go down as the second greatest NBA player to play the game,' (as in 'will go down in history) and mention nothing about retirement in the resolution?

DEFINITION OF 'WILL' :
1; Expressing the future tense:you will regret it when you are older

REFERENCE:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...



DEFINITION OF 'GO DOWN' :

2: Be recorded or remembered in a particular way

REFERENCE:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...

PRO mentioned nothing about retirement in his/her resolution. PRO said that (s)he didn't say that Kobe is the second best of all-time, which is true--but what (s)he did say was the word 'will,' and 'go down,' therefore, PRO's case is that Kobe Bryant will, beyond a shadow of doubt, be the second-best player to ever play in the NBA, no matter how long the NBA will last. PRO totally changed his/her resolution by adding retirement, so therefore, I refuse to debate the resolution 'Kobe Bryant Will be the Best Player in the NBA when he Retires,' and we should stick to the original resolution because I accepted that one.

I did not give any evidence that Kobe is the second-best player in the game, or will be, of course, because I don't need to. PRO states: 'Last I checked, 'not enough' evidence is better than none at all. And until CON can 'fulfill the burden of proof' and give evidence that Kobe is not the second best player, I assume he has agreed with me and that his arguments would then be irrelevant.'

I don't need to give any evidence, PRO, because, if you don't give sufficient evidence, you lose. I'd like to point out that PRO put the words 'fulfill the burden of proof,' in quotes, as if (s)he doesn't know what it is. CON, maybe if you paid attention to my first post, you'd know that I don't have a burden of proof. You do. I don't have to give any evidence provided you don't have enough. You never said that the burden of proof was shared. Therefore, if there is just a sliver of doubt that Kobe Bryant will not go down as the second-best player to play in the NBA, you lose. I don't need any evidence.

Vote CON.

Debate Round No. 3
BronsonC

Pro

All right, CON. First off your definitions do not help your cause, because, I was referring to Kobe Bryant in the future tense and how he will be recorded; as the second best player in the NBA.

Let me explain this debate in a different way. I believe most everyone can agree that this debate can be based mostly on opinion, and in my opinion, Kobe Bryant is the second best player in the NBA. CON has not given me his opinion about where Kobe Bryant ranks and why, and combined with the fact that CON has still been arguing over the wording of my resolution and hasn't gotten past that, makes me think that CON thinks he is going to lose this debate. Vote PRO.

One last thing, I do know what fulfill the burden of proof means.
EAT_IT_SUKA

Con

This is absolutely ridiculous. PRO seems to think that the wording of his debate isn't important. However, (s)he keeps urging me to explain why I think Kobe will not be the second best to have played in the NBA when he retires. Therefore, I accept his new resolution.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar will easily better than Kobe when Kobe he retires. Kareem set a record for the highest amount of points ever. His signature, the skyhook shot, was very hard for defenders to block. On defense, he collected an insane amount of blocks, as his wikipedia article states:

'He is also the third all-time in registered blocks (3,189),which is even more impressive because this stat had not been recorded until the fourth year of his career (1974).'

The article also states:

'Having collected six championship rings, six regular season MVP and two Finals MVP awards, fifteen NBA First or Second Teams, a record nineteen NBA All-Star call-ups and averaging 24.6 points, 11.2 rebounds, 3.6 assists and 2.6 blocks per game. However, he made up for his relative lack of bulk by showing textbook finesse, strength and was famous for his ambidextrous skyhook shot, which defenders found impossible to block. It contributed to his high .559 field goal accuracy, making him the eighth most accurate scorer of all time and a feared clutch shooter. Abdul-Jabbar was also quick enough to run the Showtime fast break led by Magic Johnson and was well-conditioned, standing on the hardwood an average 36.8 minutes. In contrast to other big men, Abdul-Jabbar also could reasonably hit his free throws, finishing with a career 72% average.'

As you can see, Kobe Bryant is not going to be the second-best to ever play the game when he retires, as Kobe only has five rings and an MVP award. Therefore, vote CON.


Debate Round No. 4
BronsonC

Pro

BronsonC forfeited this round.
EAT_IT_SUKA

Con

Extend.

I'd like to point out that PRO has to accept players from the past as ranked players because, if he didn't accept past players, then Kobe would be first-best, as Michael Jordan was a past player.

Vote CON.
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
BronsonCEAT_IT_SUKATied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by Skepticalone 2 years ago
Skepticalone
BronsonCEAT_IT_SUKATied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture by Pro