The Instigator
Flyerboy10
Pro (for)
Winning
11 Points
The Contender
InVinoVeritas
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Kurt Cobain was Murdered, it was not suicide

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Flyerboy10
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/29/2012 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 9,964 times Debate No: 21616
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (3)

 

Flyerboy10

Pro

On April 5th, 1994 the world lost one of the most influential singers in music. That day Kurt Cobain committed suicide, or so people thought. I and other people believe that he was murdered. I am going to prove the Kurt Cobain was murdered because of evidence found at the death scene, anomalies in his 'suicide' note, and because there were motives to have him killed.

The first round is for acceptance, my opponent must argue that he was not murdered and died of some other way, most likely suicide.
Debate Round No. 1
Flyerboy10

Pro

First off I'm going to tell you who Kurt Cobain was, for those who don't know, and some background information about his death. Kurt Cobain was born 1967 and was the lead singer for the band Nirvana. He and the band were associated a lot with teenage angst and drugs. The band was extremely popular in the 90's and was selling out every concert they played. But that all changed when Kurt went missing and was then found dead in his house in Seattle. When the police found his body, it looked like a normal suicide. It looked like he shot himself in the head with a shotgun after taking a large amount of drugs. They even found a suicide note next to him. After a brief investigation, the police ruled his death as a suicide and closed the case. At the time people just assumed that he killed himself because it fitted his personality as a relatively depressed man but that's not true and there are facts to prove otherwise.

There is evidence at the crime scene to prove that he didn't kill himself. According to Tom Grant, a private investigator on the case, Kurt bought the shotgun a long time before he died and bought it for protection, not for suicide. The shotgun had no finger prints on it except the ones where he was gripping it with his hands when they found his body. There were no fingerprints anywhere else, not even the trigger. Logically there should be finger prints everywhere because of all the handling from the time he bought it. That must have meant someone wiped off all the finger prints so they wouldn't be caught. The autopsy reports stated that his body was found with 3 times the lethal amount of heroin in his blood. Many doctors have said that, that much heroin would have killed him or put him in a coma state before he even had a chance to take out the needle. There was barely any blood and a gunshot wound like that should result in a massive amount if blood everywhere. According to Steve Shep, "dead men don't bleed" which means it's likely that someone else shot him in the head after he died from a drug overdose. Kurt also had a drug kit by his side completely closed and put away. There would have been no way for him to be able to inject himself with that much heroin, be able to put all his drugs back into his case, close it, and pick up the shotgun and shoot himself without leaving any fingerprints. It just doesn't make sense. The shotgun he used, when shot ejects the bullet shell to the right. But according to Justice For Kurt.com the shell was found on the left of Kurt's body. That also doesn't make sense how it magically moved to the left of him.

Another big piece of evidence was his suicide note that was found. You are probably thinking why would there be a suicide note written by him if he was murdered? Well not all of it was written by him. There are two distinct parts to the note. If you only read this top part the note sounds like it's a letter thanking his fans and how he is retiring from the music business. Before Kurt died many of his friends said he wanted to retire from music and to get out of the limelight. He talked about how he was going to finish the tour they were on and then call it quits. This whole part of the note says nothing about killing himself or even hints about it. The only way you can get the idea of suicide out of the note is if you read this last part. In this part the writing suddenly gets larger for no reason and the handwriting style changes. Handwriting experts have studied this note and many agree that the last part was written by another person. And many people suspect that his wife Courtney Love wrote the last part of the note and Kurt murdered. A suspicious paper full of letters was found in Courtney Love's back pack. It looked like a 5 year old trying to write. Most likely, she was practicing writing in his handwriting.

There are motives to have Kurt killed if you are Courtney. The most logical reason is money. Tom Grant stated that at the time of Kurt's death that he contacted Courtney's lawyer and he said that they were in the middle of filing for divorce. Courtney was a singer as well and a divorce would be disastrous to her career. She would lose millions of money from here sales and from future sales from Kurt. If they got a divorce, she get's half of everything Kurt owns, but if he 'commits suicide', she get's everything. Her father was even quoted in saying that she is a "psychopath" and that he believes that she had a role in his death.

I have one more argument to prove that Courtney Love had someone kill Kurt. Eldon Hoke a member of the band the Mentors claimed that Courtney offered him 50,000 dollars to kill Kurt. According to Max Wallace and Ian Halperin, Hoke showed up at his friend Drew Gallagher's home on April 17, 1997, asking where he could go to get a fake driver's license. Hoke was incredibly paranoid and nervous at this time. When Gallagher asked what he meant, Hoke responded, "People get buried in cornfields, people get lost in swamps". Hoke informed Gallagher of who he was and told him that he had "killed Kurt Cobain.

While Hoke didn't actually claim to have killed Kurt Cobain, he did say that Cobain's widow, Courtney Love, attempted to hire him to kill Cobain. Hoke passed a polygraph test saying that Love offered him 50 thousand dollars to kill her husband and make it look like a suicide. Hoke passed on the offer and claimed that his friend Allen took her offer to kill Kurt Cobain. Approximately a week after this incident, Hoke's body was found near a railroad; it was determined he had stumbled in front of a train and was hit.

The facts just don't add up that he committed suicide. I hope that I convinced everyone here that he was murdered.
InVinoVeritas

Con

According to the findings of official legal investigations, suicide is the most feasible thing that caused Cobain's demise.

The opponent's resolution makes the absolute statement that Cobain's death was not a suicide. How does the opponent know this with certainty if there is evidence on both sides of the case?
Debate Round No. 2
Flyerboy10

Pro

If you know what you are doing you can make almost any murder look like a suicide

The police did not evaluate all of the evidence thoroughly enough for them to realize it was murder. They went with the most logical answer at that time without thinking about possible alternatives enough. There is more evidence to prove he was murdered than that he committed suicide.

Here's another thing that doesnt make sense. Kurt owned a MasterCard credit card that he made many of his purchases with that. That credit card was missing when the police found his body and they looked up the history of any transactions and it showed that someone attempted to use that same credit card for 3 days for items that costed thousands of dollars. All these transactions occurred after Kurt would have died.

There are so many reasons why it wasnt suicide!!

A man who is going to kill himself if not going to wipe away his fingerprints off of everything he touched. EVEN if for some crazy reason he wanted to, he would not have had time since he would have been knocked unconscious, in a como-state, or died within seconds of taking the drugs in the amount he did.

There were NO finger prints on the pen he allegedly used to write his 'suicide note'.
NO legible finger prints on the shotgun it's self. There were though 4 latent prints too faint and smudged to be of any use and the cops on the case even said that it seemed as if someone tried to wipe the prints away. Surely a man who shot his head off could possibly wipe prints away, can he?

Why was Courtney Love the only one telling reporters that Kurt was suicidal during the time he went missing, maybe it was to make it look like she had nothing to do with his death?

The police reports said that there was a stool "wedged" under the door of the green house, preventing anyone from entering.. That is total BS. According to Tom Grant, that private investigator he stated that there was a 3-legged foot stool toward the center of the door but it was WAY too short to reach the handle and was light enough to have been easily scooted out of the way as the door was pushed open.

The coroner who pronounced Kurt's death a suicide and who had the final say in the medical aspects of the investigation was an old friend of Courtney's and used to party with her, Rumors said, he still was...

All logical, reasonable, and non-biased people with the information I have given cannot in their right mind say that Kurt Cobain was not murdered. There are many more evidences to prove my case, as well as other anomalies.

Vote for me.
InVinoVeritas

Con

The opponent claims that it was murder. What if it were manslaughter, an unintentional killing that was up afterward? The opponent's arguments can lead in that direction, too. Murder is not the sole conclusion that can be made. And suicide is still a possibility, since no murderer has been officially been sought to be convicted.

The opponent's resolution does not hold true, and his evidence did not substantiate his claim fully. Hence, due to failure to uphold his burden of proof, the opponent has lost this debate.

Many thanks.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Flyerboy10 5 years ago
Flyerboy10
Ready to reply?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Double_R 5 years ago
Double_R
Flyerboy10InVinoVeritasTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Easy victory for Pro, Con did not even bother to debate. Even if the resolution was absolute as Con implies, Con did nothing to earn the victory so he lost either way.
Vote Placed by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
Flyerboy10InVinoVeritasTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: what zaradi said...
Vote Placed by Zaradi 5 years ago
Zaradi
Flyerboy10InVinoVeritasTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Really con? You really didn't even debate at all. Even if I look at the resolution as an absolute statement, I have enough evidence coming from Pro to point to foul play instead of suicide. Easy win for the pro.