The Instigator
StickyPen
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Ariesx
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Kylo Ren vs Darth Maul

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Ariesx
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/9/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 270 times Debate No: 87991
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

StickyPen

Pro

I am siding with Darth Maul.
Ariesx

Con

Note(Con can only use canon sources. We all know that Luke from the EU would be a more formidable opponent)
Force Abilities: Most of this content will be coming from Canon sources. Kylo Ren is extremely powerful with the force. This is already understood, because his grandfather had the highest midichlorian count ever. In the beginning of Force Awakens, Kylo Ren abuses the ability of force immobilization to defeat his enemy. He stopped a laser from hitting him, and immobilized Poe. He is also seen as very advanced in torturing his opponents through the force. He is able to read minds, and torture them. These abilities have never been seen before. Yoda, Mace Windu, Obi Wan, Anakin, and Darth Maul have never been seen to manipulate the force like Kylo Ren has.

Lightsaber Combat- Kylo Ren is extremely skilled in lightsaber combat. One might dispute these claims, because of his defeat with Rey. I may remind you that Kylo Ren slaughtered all of Luke's apprentices with his lightsaber. Kylo Ren is very experienced, and has eliminated all competition. He killed them all, and became the Master of The Knights of Ren. We only see a image of this mysterious group in Rey's force vision. It is believed that their are over 10 of these knights. The idea that Ren was better than all of these people, and became a master is very impressive. Kylo Ren also achieved the rank of one of the head commanders of the first order. Snoke also has noted that Kylo Ren is the most gifted of his students. Back to his combat skills, Kylo Ren would use the ability of force rage which was used in his duel with FInn and Rey. You many also remember that his grandfather before he was burned used this against Obi Wan. This power is very unpredictable and vicious to an opponent. Kylo Ren was skilled in this. Kylo Ren was able to beat FInn in between 30 to 40 seconds, and pursued Rey after that. The main complaint about Kylo Ren is that he was beat by Finn and Rey. Note that he was shot by Chewbacca before the duel which leads me to by next point.

Pain Tolerance: Kylo Ren is very resistant to Pain. This is seen in the force awakens. Chewbacca's bowcaster is very deadly. Han Solo was freaking out about the weapon earlier. This weapon would kill people in one shot. This weapon was instrumental in helping Han, Chewie, Rey, and Finn escape. Kylo Ren was shot by this weapon in his stomach. Not only did it not stop him from fighting Finn and Rey, but he used the injury as an advantage. He got anger from the injury, and he was able to fight off Finn and Rey.

Explanation for why Kylo Ren lost to Rey: The main argument for Kylo Ren loosing every duel to every duelist is that he got beat by Rey. Kylo Ren's objective was to never kill her. Kylo Ren was trying to be like Vader, and trap her, so he could bring her to his master. However, he was not as strong as Vader, and did not succeed in doing this. Note that he was winning in the beginning of the fight, but Rey surprised him after she said the force. Kylo Ren not only suffered an incredible injury that should have killed him from the bowcaster, but was also hit by the lightsaber a few times by Finn. Kylo Ren was not in his prime when he was fighting. If Ren was in his prime, the fight would have ended in seconds with Ren coming out as the victor. We are comparing both Ren and Skywalker in their prime. Kylo Ren in his prime would be an unstoppable nightmare
Debate Round No. 1
StickyPen

Pro

Darth Maul certainly is not the strongest with Force abilities. I don't need to take 1000 characters to explain what everybody already knows. He did use the Force a few times, but certainly never developed that part of his fighting stype as much. He didn't need to though. His skills as a fighter and assassin did not require excessive Force usage.

Your wrong on the idea Kylo Ren is so powerful with the Force. From what I can see, Kylo uses his Force abilities more like a carnival barker. That's probably due to his Solo genes, which seem to mix badly with the more spiritual Skywalker side. His blatant immaturity contributes to his clumsiness with the Force as well. In short, Kylo Ren is something of a nitwit.

As far as lightsaber combat goes, Darth Maul would simply kick Kylo Ren's pretty boy bee-hind. An acrobat and master of weapons, This wouldn't be a fair fight in any galaxy. Contrast Maul's double-sided lightsaber with Kylo Ren's shoddily crafted piece of junk. Maul was able to combine the Force with his superior athleticism, making him a pure killing machine. Kylo Ren on the other hand, his lightsaber is just not well thought out.
Ariesx

Con

Obi Wan killed Darth Maul.
In order for Pro to win this debate, he has to answer why Maul lost to Kenobi considering that Kylo Ren and Obi wan were in the same league.

Kylo Ren has also been displayed using telekinesis.

Maul was just an assassin, and never had as much experience as Ren in using the force.
Debate Round No. 2
StickyPen

Pro

It is a good point that Kenobi beat Maul, but I think Kenobi was also naturally adjusted to win the fight. Kenobi also kind of surprised him.
That was just a situation where he lost, but he survived.
Ariesx

Con

Reasons for why Kylo Ren wins:
Maul was not able to fend off against Kenobi's attacks.
Kylo Ren is stronger in the force.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by whiteflame 8 months ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: Ragnar// Mod action: NOT Removed<

3 points to Con (Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: Well that went out with a whimper. Easy win for con, as pro did not even try to maintain arguments. ... Okso so some advice: Consistency in arguments would go a long way, "he used the injury as an advantage" after his defeat at the hands of two people who don't know how to fight with the weapon in question, meaning he only did so well against them because he was hurt and that gave him an extra advantage? Still better than "I don't need to take 1000 characters to explain what everybody already knows. ... His skills as a fighter and assassin did not require excessive Force usage." Yeah Darth Maul is cool, whatever, but nothing has been put forward as evidence for his fighting style. Yeah hands down Darth Maul's weapon is better (this was not contested), but for pro to not even challenge the claim that Kylo is an equal fighter to Ben; easily sealed this debate.

[*Reason for non-removal*] The voter clearly explains the decision and its basis in the specific arguments made by each debater as he gives advice. Admittedly, it should probably be clearer how those points coalesced into a decision, but it is eventually clear what the most important arguments were and why other points were less important.
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1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 9 months ago
Ragnar
StickyPenAriesxTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Well that went out with a whimper. Easy win for con, as pro did not even try to maintain arguments. ... Okso so some advice: Consistency in arguments would go a long way, "he used the injury as an advantage" after his defeat at the hands of two people who don't know how to fight with the weapon in question, meaning he only did so well against them because he was hurt and that gave him an extra advantage? Still better than "I don't need to take 1000 characters to explain what everybody already knows. ... His skills as a fighter and assassin did not require excessive Force usage." Yeah Darth Maul is cool, whatever, but nothing has been put forward as evidence for his fighting style. Yeah hands down Darth Maul's weapon is better (this was not contested), but for pro to not even challenge the claim that Kylo is an equal fighter to Ben; easily sealed this debate.