The Instigator
Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Network
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

L is smarter than Near.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/6/2015 Category: TV
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 858 times Debate No: 78447
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (0)

 

Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2

Pro

L can outsmart Near.

Both characters are from Death Note.

BoP is Shared.

Fist round is acceptance.
Network

Con

I accept this debate.
Debate Round No. 1
Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2

Pro

1. The creators said so http://deathnote.wikia.com...(character)

2. L almost beat Kira but it took Near and Mellow to win and Mellow died.
Network

Con

In literary criticism, the principle known as Death of the Author (http://tvtropes.org...) holds that the words of a creator are secondary to the interpretation of the audience. Since it was never stated in-universe that L is smarter than Near, and other interpretations can be deduced by the audience of Death Note, what the authors may have meant is only one possible interpretation.

The canon of Death Note 13: How to Read even explicitely contradicts this interpretation, by giving L an intelligence of 8/10 and Near an intelligence of 9/10. Death Note: How to Read is at least as canonical as the author's own words, therefore I should win this debate.

L wasn't really close to beating Kira. By the end of his life, he had enough evidence to convict both Light and Misa. And yet, the likelihood of Light being Kira (in L's mind) never exceeded 9%. Near, who had to find evidences all over again, identified Light as L-Kira and Taru as X-Kira in no time at the beginning of Part 2. From there, he only needed to find proofs to corroborate his theses.

The scheme of Near and Mellow involved Mellow dying so Near would have sufficient evidence to convict Light and Taru. The one thing that could have saved L's butt is if he had done the same and written his own name in the death note before Rem did (actually, he did just that in the movies). In both cases, the "Thanatos Gambit" of the characters (for non-tropers: http://tvtropes.org...) does not invalidates any of the involved characters' intelligence. Otherwise, this would mean L himself was stupid.

Also note that L was a grown-up adult with the best resources in the world to solve his cases (including all the fake identities he would ever need). Near was a child with little except a gathering of US agents and indirect assistance from his enemy in the Mafia (who only decided to help him at the very end).

Therefore, considering that L had better resources and better evidence than Near, but that he failed where Near succeeded, and considering that Death Note 13: How to Read explicitely states that Near is more intelligent than L, I postulate that Near actually is smarter than L, no matter what the author may have intended, and thus, that Pro is mistaken.
Debate Round No. 2
Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2

Pro

Sorry but I've been quite busy this week and this is all I had time to make.

Rebuttals\ Arguments.

This will be short.

1. You said that L wasn't close to catching Light but at the episode he dies he would have caught Light because of his plan.

2. I read that when L says that he is 9% sure he was really 90 ish percent sure but didn't want to say it cause of lack of evidence but I have yet to find where I read it so next round I'll post it.

3. In the end Light goes crazy which makes him easier to catch.

4. You said that the words of the creator are second to the audience but look here and you'll see that the audience thinks L is smarter thus L is smarter.
https://answers.yahoo.com...

http://www.debate.org...

(I'd just like to point out that the guy who voted Near said fells instead of falls.)
Network

Con

1. Rewatch the episode of his death again. L clearly stated that Kira, if caught, would almost certainly be sentenced to death. Light's lifespan, for that matter, was the longest ever seen in the serie, implying he wasn't going to get caught. Rem correctly guessed that Misa, not Light, was going to be sentenced for Kira's crimes. By killing L and W with her death note, Rem extended Misa's life (since she would not be sentenced to death with L's demise), but there is nothing suggesting she extended Light's.

2. A statement without evidence or a source to back it is an opinion. Your opinion is that when L thought there was a 9% chance that Light was Kira, he really meant a 90% chance. However, L didn't just say there was a 9% chance. He thought it. And that's an entirely different thing, because in a story without explicit mind-probing, thoughts are expected by the audience to be unfalsified. Also, I don't think you can give reference on a round that does not exist.

3. You must have missed an episode. From the time Light murdered L's body double, it was plainly obvious to L and the audience that Kira/Light was irredeemably a madman. Unless you mean he looked crazier in his final confrontation with Near? He wasn't, he just had a harder time hiding his insanity after being outed as Kira and being shot multiple times. If anything, the job was even harder for Near than it was for L: L faced a young and inexperienced Kira, while Near defeated him many years after his ascension to power.

4. You lose points for citing Yahoo answers as if it was a reliable source. Furthermore, the poll you mention is about L-Kira (alias Light) versus Near, not L. Ryuzaki (which I assumed the debate was about). I thought I remembered Near outsmarting L-Kira, so correct me if you think Light is more intelligent than Near. It also so happens that L-Kira outsmarted Ryuzaki, therefore Ryuzaki
Also, pointing out mistakes is bad form, especially since the guy didn't make a grammar mistake, he was using the simple past tense of an irregular verb. You aren't exactly without mistake (Mellow instead of Mello, which I should have proof-read and corrected myself. I apologize for that), either.

5. In the end, the facts still speak for themselves. Ryuzaki/L:
-Faced Kira before his rise to power.
-Had plenty of evidence against Misa (footages of her talking with Rem) and Light (his own testimony of "maybe being Kira").
-Couldn't save his life.
-Couldn't catch Kira, and had no backup plan to do so after his death.
-Had a death note that he could have used to do both of the above.
On the other hand, Near:
-Faced Kira at the height of his power.
-Had none of L's evidence (all destroyed by Watari) yet figured out the existence of the death note and that Light was Kira in spite of that.
-Saved his own life (at the cost of Mello's).
-Catched Kira (not that we know whether he had a backup plan or not).
-Was so intelligent he didn't need to use the death note.

The above reasons, in addition to Death Note: How to Read which gives an higher intelligence score for Near than L, are pretty good evidence to back up the fact that Near is more intelligent than Ryuzaki, the words of some people on Yahoo answer be damned.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Network 1 year ago
Network
Well, looks like nobody ever wants to vote in my debates...
Posted by Network 1 year ago
Network
One of my sentences was cut sort because the site apparently does not like some symbols. > <
<>
It should read "therefore Ryuzaki is below Light, which is below Near".
Posted by TBSmothers 1 year ago
TBSmothers
I feel like the show died out a bit when L died. As it went on I just started to hate LIght much more.
Posted by hldemi 1 year ago
hldemi
That is true.
Posted by Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 1 year ago
Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2
I agree. But it can be debated.
Posted by hldemi 1 year ago
hldemi
N didnt beat L because they didnt even compete at same conditions. L basically has done 80% work done for N to continue. If anything L contributed more then N for catching Light. N was just there to finish the job.
Posted by Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2 1 year ago
Amore-mystery-et-Verite-2
No. He defeated L by beating Light\Kira. I just used the wrong word.
Posted by hldemi 1 year ago
hldemi
@ brianjustin3709 Character from the anime Death note.
Posted by brianjustin3709 1 year ago
brianjustin3709
What is L?
Posted by hldemi 1 year ago
hldemi
How did N defeated L ? He defeated Light not L.
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