The Instigator
imabench
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Strategery
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

LEAST ideal candidate for President

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/10/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 611 times Debate No: 75074
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

imabench

Pro

We've seen a load of debates where people argue that someone is the BEST person to be President in 2016, but I havent seen one where someone argues who is the LEAST qualified.

So here we are.

Con will pick whoever they believe is the least qualified person to be president in round 1
I will then reveal my pick for the least qualified person and begin arguments.

LIST OF PEOPLE YOU CAN PICK (those who have actually declared)(Failure to pick one of the options results in a full forfeit)

Dems:
- Hillary Clinton
- Bernie Sanders

Reps:
- Carly Fiorina
- Ben Carson
- Marco Rubio
- Ted Cruz
- Rand Paul
- Mike Huckabee

Third party candidates are not eligible because they don't have a shot in hell in winning in the first place and i'm not blowing a debate like this on some nobody.

4 rounds, 4,000 characters
First round is acceptance and choice of candidate.
Strategery

Con

I accept. Hillary Clinton is the least qualified person on that list to be President.
Debate Round No. 1
imabench

Pro

Alrighty then, I pick Carly Fiorina.

1) First Case: Experience

Hillary Clinton, cons choice, has the most experience of anyone in the entire race at the moment. She has been the Secretary of State, she has been a Senator from the state of New York, she has even already been in the White House for 8 years with Bill Clinton, where Hillary even acted as co-president at times http://www.wnd.com...

So in terms of experience, Hillary has perhaps more experience of ANYONE.

Carly Fiorina on the other hand, has NO experience.

She has never been a Senator, she has never even been a member of the House of Representatives, she has never even held a single position in public office. She has never been elected EVER, which means she would have absolutely NO experience going into the white house.

The gap in experience between Hillary Clinton and Carly Fiorina is the biggest between any two candidates in the entire race, with Hillary having the most, and Carly having absolutely none. If Carly Fiorina became president, she would literally have no idea how anything around her works, whereas Hillary Clinton has already seen how things in the White House, and also in the Senate, works firsthand.

2) Second Case: Positions

Carly Fiorina holds the following stances on these big issues:

Opposes Same Sex Marriage
Opposes protecting people from being fired for their sexuality
She is one of the 'Dirty Dozen' who are routinely vote against environmental improvement acts. (http://www.lcv.org... )
Believes people allowed on the No-Fly List should be allowed to have guns
(http://www.ontheissues.org... )
Supported Arizona's tough immigration laws that were soon found to be illegal
http://www.ontheissues.org...
She Is against raising the minimum wage and equal pay for women
http://thinkprogress.org...

And her stances on the drug war, Social Security, Welfare, is completely unknown

Half of Carly Fiorina's stances are completely unknown and the other half are out of touch with what the majority of americans want. So not only does she have absolutely no experience in politics, she doesnt even have a clear platform.

I'll end here for now and allow con to make his case
Strategery

Con

1) First Case: Baggage

Hillary Clinton has more baggage than could fit into a 90 car freight train. Wilst Carly Fiorina is her own self-made woman, Hillary Clinton will never be able to distance herself very well from her lying, cheating, self-absorbed husband, who is surely to dictate policy to her behind the scenes and be her vice-president.

Bill Clinton is also on record as saying that "presidents should be able to serve more than two-terms," http://thehill.com... and as only the second President in history to ever be impeached, a "third term" for Bill Clinton would be disastrous and would undermine Hillary's Presidency.

Among the other things Hillary Clinton brings includes; lying about sniper fire in Bosnia (http://www.politifact.com...); responsibility for the Benghazi terrorist attack (http://www.cbsnews.com...); deleting 32,000 state department emails that were unlawfully kept on a personal server (http://www.businessinsider.com...); accepting donations from foreign governments to the Clinton foundation while secretary of state (http://www.washingtonpost.com...); and having involvement in the the Whitewater controversy (http://en.wikipedia.org...).
.
So while it's the Clinton way: to rake in millions of dollars from undisclosed Russian-Uranium deals behind closed doors, Carly Fiona has at least helped make billion of dollars legally and thousands of jobs for the country while working as a private sector CEO. Unlike Hillary Clinton, she is at least trustworthy public figure.
.
2) Second Case: Terrible Record.

Hillary Clinton also has an unimpressive record as a senator and as a secretary of state where in the latter role she led the failed "reset" negotiations with Russia and Obama's failed policy attempts to manage the Arab Spring. As a senator, she also had the nerve to vote for the Iraq War; which is basically the same quagmire as those DDO idiots who voted for the Mikal Administration.
Debate Round No. 2
imabench

Pro

This is going to be way easier than I thought....

1) Bill(?) Clinton

"Hillary Clinton will never be able to distance herself very well from her lying, cheating, self-absorbed husband, who is surely to dictate policy to her behind the scenes and be her vice-president."

I'm not sure if you know much about American politics at all, but you cannot pick your own spouse to be Vice President, so your claim that Hillary would be a bad pick because she would make her husband her VP is completely unfounded in logic or reality.

"Bill Clinton is also on record as saying"

Do you even know which Clinton im talking about at this point? Your arguments for why Hillary would be bad are just denunciations of her husband, whose actions arent even relevant to the argument here since he's not the one running for president.

"Hillary Clinton brings includes; lying about sniper fire in Bosnia"

That was 2008

"She took responsibility for the Benghazi terrorist attack"

Do you realize that its not necessarily a bad things for leaders to own up to mistakes that happened under their watch, or are you just that irrationally biased?

"deleting 32,000 state department emails that were unlawfully kept on a personal server"

Both Colin Powell and Jeb Bush did the exact same thing. Using one's personal email instead of the assigned email is something most people in DC do all the time, its not something just limited to Hillary
http://www.msnbc.com...
http://www.politico.com...
http://www.nydailynews.com...

"accepting donations from foreign governments"

The donations went to the Clinton foundation, which is a charity organization, not a Super PAC. There's nothing wrong with either Clinton accepting foreign money into their charity since they are not using that charity to fund their election....

"having involvement in the the Whitewater controversy"

That was literally from before the 1980's, which was 30 years ago, and holds no relevance on whether or not Hillary would make a good president.....

"Fiona has at least helped make billion of dollars legally and thousands of jobs for the country"

She laid off 30,000 workers in her 5 year term as CEO, try again

http://www.politifact.com...



2) Record

"she led the failed "reset" negotiations with Russia"

Thats not something you can pin entirely on her, especially when the guy trying to be dealt with is an autocrat like Putin....

"and Obama's failed policy attempts to manage the Arab Spring"

Breaking news out of the debate section where Strategery apparently cannot distinguish 'Obama' from 'Hillary', as evidenced by how he is attributing Obama's mistakes by name to Hillary instead of Obama. More of this story at 11.

"she also had the nerve to vote for the Iraq War"

Which she admits was the hardest decision she ever had to make and openly regrets it
http://www.politifact.com...

"which is basically the same quagmire as those DDO idiots who voted for the Mikal Administration."

Uh-oh, looks like someone has a major case of butthurt :3



Extend all arguments that Con outright dropped
Strategery

Con

Busy work week. Will return for R4.
Debate Round No. 3
imabench

Pro

Okay because it is site custom that no new arguments can be posted in the final round, and since con forfeited round 3, con therefore forfeits all of the following arguments:

1 - Hillary Clinton has a MASSIVE amount of experience in politics of all levels that qualifies her to be President

2 - Carly Fiorina has absolutely NO experience, and has never even held public office, making her the most UNqualified to be President

3 - Carly Fiorina holds very unpopular and outdated stances on a variety of issues such as gay marriage, discrimination against gays, environmental protection, the minimum wage, immigration, etc which makes her out of touch with American sentiment

4 - Half of Carly Fiorina's platform isnt even known, since she has no given stance on drug legalization, Social Security, and Welfare, whereas we've known about Hillary's stances on issues since her run in 2008

5 - All of the 'scandals' that con brought up against Hillary are acts that have either been committed by every other major politician in DC (Use of private emails), or are harmless and not even relevant to how she would perform as President (Foreign donations to her charity)

6 - Carly Fiorina's performance as CEO of HP resulted in the termination of 30,000 employees before she was fired after 5 years, meaning that not only does she have zero public office experience, but she also has a terrible track record when it comes to running a business.

7 - Hillary Clinton will not name her Husband as her VP, as con claims she would, which is something that anyone with more then 6 brain cells knows wouldn't happen anyway.

===========================================================================================

Hillary Clinton certainly is not perfect, not by a long shot, but she has an undeniable amount of experience working in the highest stages of US politics that absolutely nobody else can match. Carly Fiorina is a reality-disconnected republican who is running for president just because she is a woman. She has no experience in public office, she has a terrible track record as a CEO, and half her platform is completely unknown while the other half of her platform is complete garbage. Carly Fiorina is certainly the least ideal candidate for President when matched up against the entire field of serious candidates who are running, not just Hillary Clinton.

Arguments: Vote whoever you think made the better case
Conduct: Vote Pro since Con essentially forfeitted round 3
Sources: Vote Tied, we both presented a fair number of them
Spelling: Vote Tied, I trust that both cases were easy to read.
Strategery

Con

Extend all arguments that Con outright dropped

I offrered plenty of rebutal by providing a case which contrasted with yours, whereas Hillary's baggage should outweigh her experience.

(Bill Clinton) is not the one running for president.

Do you remember the 08 election? I seem to recall plenty of hooligans bashing John McCain solely because of Sarah Palin – even though, she was not the one running for President!

Point being, Bill Clinton is a controversal member of Hillary's inner circle, and based on his past histories, we can believe that Bill Clinton would undermine a Hillary Clinton Presidency.

That was 2008 (Sniper fire)

What difference does it make? – Hillary Clinton

Do you realize that its not necessarily a bad things for leaders to own up to mistakes that happened under their watch, or are you just that irrationally biased?

The she should have done the honorable thing and resigned from office, or are you also just that irrationally biased?

Both Colin Powell and Jeb Bush did the exact same thing.

From your own source http://tinyurl.com...

The State Department’s policy on personal email accounts dates back to 2005, the year Powell left the administration.

“I don’t have any to turn over. I did not keep a cache of them.. I do not have thousands of pages somewhere in my personal files,” – Colin Powell

Whereas Jeb Bush also publically released his emails from his time as governor.

Now contrast Bush and Powell with the total disregard for government transparency that Hillary took by deleting 32,000 government emails.

The donations went to the Clinton foundation, which is a CHARITY organization

The Clinton foundation is a CLINTON organization. The point of the foundation is to advance awareness issues favored by the Clintons. Members also have the option to donate to Bill Clintons Presidential Center (http://tinyurl.com...).

There's nothing wrong with either Clinton accepting foreign money into their charity since they are not using that charity to fund their election

Yet there is something wrong about using a public office to grant poltical favors in exchange for monetary donations – especially from foreign governments.

The New York Times reports; Uranium investors gave millions to the Clinton Foundation while Clinton’s office was involved in approving a Russian bid for mining assets in Kazakhstan and the United States.(http://tinyurl.com...)

(Whitewater controversy) was 30 years ago

It holds water because it demonstrates that she's been a crooked politician for the last 30 years – augmenting my point that Hillary's baggage makes her unqualified to be President.

She laid off 30,000 workers in her 5 year term as CEO

Whereas HP initially laid off 30k workers in 2002 as a result of a merger w/Compaq; by 2005 Carly Fiona had doubled the value of HP, from $44 billion to $88 billion; tripled the rate of annual patents, and improved the profitability of every product segment of the company; (http://tinyurl.com...).

By the time Carly Fiona left her tenure as CEO, HP had more employees than at any point in its history. Compaq & HP also had more employees worldwide than they had pre-merger (http://tinyurl.com...).

not something you can pin entirely on her, especially when the guy trying to be dealt with is an autocrat like Putin

Sure I can. Give me a President who can actually stand up to Putin!

Strategery cannot distinguish 'Obama' from 'Hillary', as evidenced by how he is attributing Obama's mistakes by name to Hillary instead of Obama.

This just in! Radical left wing hypocrites apparently cannot distinguish Jeb Bush from his brother George W. Bush when it comes to attributing Dubya's mistakes on Iraq. Be sure to catch ima later on the Weekly Stupid.

Which she admits was the hardest decision she ever had to make and openly regrets it (Iraq War vote).

Its too late for personal apologies when the entire region is in turmoil, debt is out of control, and American soldiers are dead. We need a President who gets these decisions right.

Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Kyle_Zucco 1 year ago
Kyle_Zucco
You said how many bad things about Hillary were in the past, but that still reflects Hillary as a person. Also, you said how many politicians delete emails, that doesn't make it okay for her to, and if she thinks that because someone else did something, she can, that's all the more reason she should not be president.
Posted by bsh1 1 year ago
bsh1
Martin O'Malley should be a Dem option...
Posted by That1User 1 year ago
That1User
@ima: When I was reading Carly Fiorina's positions I didn't even facepalm, I just looked at the screen in utter disbelief.
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