The Instigator
Marine_to_be
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Yraelz
Pro (for)
Winning
39 Points

LEGALIZED ABORTION

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/3/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,063 times Debate No: 3039
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
Votes (13)

 

Marine_to_be

Con

how can anyone say today with the medical capabilities we have today that with pics and stuff we can take that abortion should be legal.
-The BABY inside of that womb should atleast be givin a fair chance at life
-it is completely unethical
-the baby never did anything to hurt anyone
-there is a long waiting list to adobt a baby so instead of aborting give it a chance and adobt it
-women after abortion often have mental prob.
-think about it as if your parents would have said that we werent ready for you so lets have an abortion. and you wouldnt be debating me right now
-we are killing the worlds pos. next leader
-parents faults why should baby pay
Yraelz

Pro

Abortion! Round 1 fight!

Alright, in my opponents opening speech he offered me 8 sub points. I will argue each of these points in turn, labeling them 1-8. Having finished with that I may go on to add a few points of my own.

1. My opponent states that the baby inside of the womb should be given a fair chance to life. We have a few problems with such a statement. Primarily the fact that the "baby" inside the womb is not a baby at all. It is more appropriately called a fetus. Which begs the question... is a fetus life? In order to determine an answer to such a question we must first define life. This is the first thing I ask my opponent to do in his next speech.

I can see where one may call life something with a heart beat but a hamster also has heart beat. Would someone who is completely brain dead but still has a heart beat be considered alive. Questions like these are what brings up the question on whether or not a fetus is life or not. If my opponent does choose to argue that life is a being with a heart beat I will in turn point out that a fetus does not have a heart beat for the first couple of weeks. Thus abortion will be seen as fine in those first couple weeks.

Could it be a shape? Something that looks human? I doubt a puppet would be seen as life...

2. Point 2, my opponent brings in the ethics of abortion. I on the other hand see no ethical divide or bright line that states what is or is not ethical in this case. Does not the body naturally abort a fetus at times? Does a natural occurrence qualify as unethical? Lets take it a step deeper... Only one sperm is going to fertilize the egg, is the mass death of all the other sperms unethical? Even deeper, is masturbation in itself unethical because of all the sperm that are killed, potential babies. I ask that my opponent expand on this point and if possible offer me an ethical divide.

3. My opponent third point is the idea that the baby has done nothing to hurt anyone. Once again let us reword as fetus. This is true. But neither has the sperm which doesn't make it to the egg. Or the sperm used in masturbation. Should be ban condoms maybe? Which brings me to my second point on this issue. This is a complete and utter logical fallacy. The fetus has not hurt anyone therefor it's death is justified; thus if someone has hurt someone else is their death suddenly justified. I argue no, but that doesn't change the fact that people die every day and death is a part of life whether natural or not. Death is essential to check the population.

4. Adopt a baby. First of show me evidence of the long waiting list to adopt a baby. But even then we get into other entertaining issues. What if the baby is being born to a drug addict, with almost a guaranteed mental retardation? What if the mother was raped, should she have the obligation to suffer through 9 months of child birth because she was raped? What if the mother is weak and will probably die during child birth? Is the mother's life less important than the potential life of the child?

5. Women after an abortion often have a mental prob. Lets start this one with evidence again. However furthermore is the fact that they have a mental problem afterwards a reason to make it illegal? I can see this as being a reason to make sure that one truly desires to abort said fetus but not a reason to make abortion legal? Should we make T.V illegal because it occasionally negatively influences little kids? Let's make divorce illegal because the children often have mental problems when that happens!

6. The -What if your parents had an abortion, then you wouldn't be here debating me.- argument. This leads us to the sticky alternative universe situation and the potential life argument. It would be a shame if I was not here to debate right now but hey, what if my parents had decided to conceive me a day later? Then I wouldn't be me would I? I'd be the byproduct of most likely a different sperm and the same egg. Might even be female.... So the question is this. Is my life worth more than the life that could have been conceived a day later or a day earlier? A posteriori every life has the right to life but what defines pre birth? What potential life has the right to life? I contend that I am no more or less important than any baby that could have been conceived by my parents, I was just lucky to be conceived.

7. We are killing the world possible next leader. Yes you are totally right. But ask yourself this what occurs more often: a world leader? a criminal? I think you might be correct in stating that the criminal has a more likely chance of spawning from the mothers womb. Thus under this logic we should be making abortion mandatory as to avoid criminals. They are bad....

8. Parents fault, why should the baby have to pay. Its a fetus for one. And this once again brings in the rape argument along with the drug mother argument. And on to other hypotheticals. Is it the parents fault that the condom breaks? Parents fault that the birth control fails? -shrug- You tell me. =)

Thus I offer a conditional hypothetical that solves for my opponents entire case under his logic and does a much much better job: From the point of a womens first period on until the point where she can no longer bear children she will be impregnated every 9 months and bear a child every 9 months. This solves the above 8 points:

1. It gives many many hypothetical babies a fair chance to life. Many more than just make abortion illegal.

2. It is more ethical as in this case more potential life forms are born. To take away the potential for their birth from them is completely unethical.

3. So many potential babies never did a thing to hurt anyone. If we have them in mass we will be doing the most we can to give those babies the life they deserve.

4. People won't have to wait to adopt babies. In fact they will be having them constantly. Yay!

5. Won't have to worry about a mental problem with so many babies. =)

6. Think about it? What if your parents hadn't had you? What about all your brothers and sisters that they didn't have. The one's you'll never know, don't they deserve life?

7. With so many babies we will have so many possible world leaders it won't even be funny! It'll be amazing!

8. If a parent doesn't want to have a child at any particular time why should that potential child pay!?

Make unpregnancy illegal!
Debate Round No. 1
Marine_to_be

Con

Marine_to_be forfeited this round.
Yraelz

Pro

I extend all of my arguments, there is nothing for me to refute. Should my opponent choose to answer with his final round I will be sure to respond then.
Debate Round No. 2
Marine_to_be

Con

Marine_to_be forfeited this round.
Yraelz

Pro

Which leaves me with a simple nothing to respond to once again. Obviously as my alternative was simply I conditional example I am choosing to drop that. Please extend all my other arguments.
Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Yraelz 8 years ago
Yraelz
Yeah I wouldn't mind that at all, I think it would be pretty exciting.

Though, after reading your last post I think you might be misclassifying abortionists a little bit. I'm fairly certain most people who support abortion do not do so in the final trimester. But that might just be my own little bubble of friends bias. Look forward to challenge.
Posted by SolaGratia 8 years ago
SolaGratia
The Zygote is more precious than either the sperm of the egg because it has fused. It is not of either parent anymore, it is a new creation, whether it is alive or not.

True, there is no scientific proof that life begins at conception--it is possible that it is only a "potential" life, but most people agree that the child is alive at the time of birth. When, then, does the fetus become a child. When its heart starts beating? When it starts to suck its thumb?

This is a hard question to answer, but Abortionists today have already decided their answer: life doesn't begin till the baby is physically completely separate from the mother (Although some argue that when an abortion has been attempted and fails, the baby can and should be killed even AFTER the umbilical cord is cut--and then there are whacko academics like Peter Singer who condone infanticide.) So, in a period of as little as a few minutes, the baby goes from just pure matter, not alive, to a human being. I find that hard to buy.

I suppose in a way it is a potential life argument, but the fact is that a zygote is VERY different from a sperm or egg.

Sorry for debating you in the comments. I'd like to do an Abortion debate sometime. I'm leaving on vacation Saturday, and won't be back till after Easter, but perhaps, Yraelz, I'll challenge you then if you're agreeable.
Posted by goldspurs 8 years ago
goldspurs
Yraelz,

I see you have such a problem with children in the womb being referred to as baby and not fetus. What seperates the two? The simple fact of being removed from the womb? That sounds like a weak argument to me. How about when the baby is at 23 weeks gestation? Is it still only a fetus? What if it is born at 23 weeks? Is it still only a fetus or does the simple fact that it is seperated from the womb make it an individual life?
Posted by Yraelz 8 years ago
Yraelz
Hmmm. Perhaps I will think of another argument if I'm not to busy in the next couple of days. Though I have a question, you say sperm and eggs are not a precious source as they occur in the everyday body in profusion. You however say that a Zygote is of value, but a Zygote is simply the bonding of the above two sources that you already determined to be un-precious. In fact a bonding that takes little effort or time from either body. So my question is, why do you consider the Zygote to be so much more precious, is it simply numbers?

Btw I consider my most important argument to have been the potential life argument. What were your thoughts on that?
Posted by SolaGratia 8 years ago
SolaGratia
Yraelz: the tired old masturbation argument? I expected better. You seem to have forgotten that sperm has no potential by itself. It must bond with an egg to form life. Therefore, plain sperm and eggs--especially since they exist in everyone's bodies in such profusion--are not a precious resource, and they cannot be compared to the bonded egg and sperm which form, If I recall, a zygote.

This is not to say you didn't win the debate by default, but if this was a real, contended debate that little slip-up would have lost you the debate for me.
Posted by Logical-Master 8 years ago
Logical-Master
I'll play you online when you get it.

By the way, check your email as I've come across some "interesting" information. ;)
Posted by Yraelz 8 years ago
Yraelz
OMG dude! I was just looking it up online, I didn't think it came out for another couple months. Wow this is so cool!!! I think I am buying one in a couple days. Wii for me!
Posted by Logical-Master 8 years ago
Logical-Master
The new one is honestly one of the greatest games ever made. It is worth buying a Wii over.
Posted by Yraelz 8 years ago
Yraelz
Dude, who doesn't play smash Bro's. Its simply amazing. Think I might have to buy a Wii for the new one.
Posted by Logical-Master 8 years ago
Logical-Master
Do you play Smash Bros, yraelz?
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