The Instigator
sherlockmethod
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Puck
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points

LM Classic: Sherlockmethod vs. Puck

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/8/2009 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,136 times Debate No: 9450
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (3)

 

sherlockmethod

Pro

Pro's Team
1) Dr. Doom – Second only to Stephen Strange in knowledge of the arcane arts among humanoids, Victor Von Doom is one of the most prolific villains in the Marvel Universe. He possesses a genius level intellect and can transfer his mind to another body. Doom possesses superhuman strength when in his armor and the armor limits telepathic attacks as well. Most importantly, Doom is a master manipulator. Doom is a top notch scientist and is meticulous in his attention to detail. His knowledge of the arcane coupled with his scientific knowledge are the crux of his magic abilities. http://marvel.wikia.com......(Earth-616)

2) Ghost Rider – Danny Ketch - Ghostie is the spirit of vengeance. His body is consumed in hellfire. He possesses superhuman strength, a mystical chain that can separate into individual bolts that are also surrounded in hellfire. He has the power of the penance stare which causes its victims to feel any pain they have caused others including grief and most importantly their own feelings of guilt, whether real or imagined, in one split instance. Most humans never fully recover. In addition, Ghost Rider possesses a motorcycle that can reassemble itself (the process is unknown), respond to Ghostie's summons and scale the sides of buildings. He cannot produce multiple motorcycles at once. http://marvel.wikia.com......

3) Hawkeye - He possesses no super human powers, and has the strength and dexterity of a human who engages in intense exercise and training. He could easily compete at an Olympic level in acrobatics. He is considered one of the greatest marksmen in the world and most notably works with a bow and an array of various trick and explosive arrows. http://marvel.wikia.com......(Earth-616)

4) Deadshot – He possesses no super human powers but is a deadly marksman on level with Hawkeye. His hand to hand combat skills are stellar and he can hold his own against most fighters of similar strength. He also appears to have a death wish, making him a formidable opponent. http://dc.wikia.com......

5) Hannibal King – Hannibal is a vampire privy to all the powers, and weaknesses, generally associated with vampires in common lore with the exception that he can be in the sunlight for short time periods. Hannibal possesses superhuman strength and can turn into a near invisible mist form. Lastly, he has the ability to control and see through the eyes of rodents, particularly rats. Limits on this ability are unknown, but he has garnered all rats in a town so the scale may not be millions, but at least hundreds of thousands. http://marvel.wikia.com...... http://en.wikipedia.org......

Plan A:
Doom immediately takes steps to protect his team. Doom knows what I know per the game rules. Victor uses his knowledge of science and the arcane arts to cast a cloaking spell over him and the rest of the team masking their genetic make up. Hannibal King sends the rats in all directions easily finding Team Puck. No actions are taken at this point by the rats. In addition, Hannibal cycles through the city's rats, looking through their eyes for recon purposes. Hawkeye hops on the back of Ghost Rider's bike and Deadshot hops on one of Dooms arcane platforms and all head towards a laboratory which is easy enough to find as Doom has knowledge of New York City per Marvel (earth 616) cannon.

Doom brings the team into sealed lab preventing a breach from any outside viruses. The humans are given suits with air supplies. Doom then hands his molecule expander to Deadshot. Any portals that pop up in the lab will be continuously blasted with the expander enlarging any molecules that come through the portal. http://www.angelfire.com... Ghostie and Hawkeye guard the door while Hannibal has some rats file in the building for recon.
Doom then creates an EMP bomb. Doom hands the bomb over the Hawkeye as all walk out with an arcane forceshield around them. Once outside Doom detonates the bomb rendering all electronic devices useless. Doom's suit is nuclear powered and is not affected, The Rider's bike is powered by Hellfire and is not affected. Somewhere across the city Angela falls to ground as her nanotech blood no longer flows. Deadpool smiles at the thought of splitting the $150.00 four ways instead of five.
While walking outside, Hannibal sends as many rats as he can toward Spiral. They may not be able to do much damage, but the sheer number of rats will hamper her movement. She needs to make specific movements to make portals and use her other abilities. The rats will serve well in stopping the needed motions for portal making and other powers. http://marvel.wikia.com...(Earth-616)
With the portals out of the way, Team Doom sets up.

Ghostie rides both humans up the sides of the buildings near Team Puck and gives them their only advantage – distance. Deadshot's electronic equipment will not work but his guns will be fine. Hawkeye uses a bow and will not be affected by the EMP. Ghost Rider immediately focuses on Sinister. Hannibal sets his sites on Spiral. While Deadshot starts firing away at Sage. Doom transfers his mind to Deadpool and stabs Spiral in the back. Spiral is multifaceted, but she will be matched in strength with the vampire misting around her and the rats. Hawkeye waits until Sage is engaged and does what he does best – not miss. Hawkeye's arrow finds Sage's reboot button rendering her temporarily disconnected. http://marvel.wikia.com...(Tessa)_(Earth-616)
After stabbing Spiral in the spine, Doom stands still (while in Deadpool's body) for Hawkeye to hit him with a tranquilizing arrow. Tranquilizers have worked on Deadpool in the past and will serve well now. http://marvel.wikia.com...(Earth-616) Deadshot continuously fires rounds into the incapacitated Spiral. While the others fight, Ghost Rider engages Sinister. Of the abilities Sinister has, he does not have much mystical resistance and Ghostie as plenty to throw at him. Hellfire bolts, his chain and superior combat skills will allow the Rider to hold Sinister long enough to deliver a penance stare. If Sinister attempts to control one of the humans, Rider will have him stunned long enough to administer the pain. The matched strength of the two combatants will allow time for Doom to reenter his armor and add some arcane bolts to the fray. Sinister would not have the necessary time to invade the Ghost's riders mind and still deal with Doom. Nor could he penetrate Doom's armor to mind control him. The combined mystical forces would be enough due to Sinister's lack of resistance. Once the stare is administered, Team Sherlock watches the villain relives every Morlock death he orchestrated in a split second.
Deadshot puts bullets into Sage, Deadpool, and Spiral's head, while chopping them into bite size pieces. Hannibal lets the rats enjoy the meal. Team Puck is eaten alive and Sinister wants his mommy.
Victory: Team Sherlock.

Conclusion:
Team Sherlock wins due to Doom's science, Ghost Rider's stare, Hawkeye's and Deadshot's aim, Hannibal's rats, and his vampiric strength. Team Puck has formidable combatants, but distance and manipulation render those abilities less than effective. Team Sherlock put as many advantages as possible in place prior to facing the opponents. These preparations allowed Doom and company to overpower Con using their weakest points. For these reasons, Pro should be awarded this round.
Puck

Con

Full list of gear/abilities:
http://www.debate.org...
Only change is Spiral will come equipped with 3 swords and her trademark blaster.
==
Avast!
Opponents arguments:
1.Once outside Doom detonates the bomb rendering all electronic devices useless. Doom's suit is nuclear powered and is not affected

"once outside" is a rather pointless detonation as non nuclear EMP has severely limited range due to its nature - which also renders it weak compared to nuclear created blasts of EMP - "somewhere across the city" just doesn't work - and Angela has survived stronger nuclear powered blasts of EMP point blank.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://img40.imageshack.us...
http://img21.imageshack.us...

A nuclear powered suit is vulnerable. Doom is there when you detonated it; nuclear powered relates to the *source* of electrical power for electrical components, not the type of components - much like a nuclear power plant creates electricity. Doom just fried his suit. Even if granted my team is in range, Angela's nanites do nifty repair work on their gear.

2.Hannibal sends as many rats as he can toward Spiral.

Angela can create virus components out of surrounding materials thanks to her nanites; dead rats - an easy task to accomplish for a genius - in any event Spiral doesn't need to use leg work to manoeuvre having portals to use - which arrive from her being able to access dimensions mentally, not from her rituals - seen in the way she creates them rapidly during battles.
http://img406.imageshack.us...
http://marvel.wikia.com...(Earth-616)

3.Doom transfers his mind to Deadpool and stabs Spiral in the back.

Any attempt by Doom to enter Deadpool will result in Sinister knowing. Any such invasion would be retaliated with a bullet in the head from either Sage, Angela or Spiral, expelling Doom. Deadpool then heals. Certainly not a new trick for him. The damage done to Doom's mind, wouldn't be good upon his hosts mind being shot.

4.Spiral is multifaceted, but she will be matched in strength with the vampire misting around her and the rats.

"single-handedly defeating the X-Men on several occasions"

Spiral has insane fighting abilities when she wants to, holding off and defeating teams of X-men singlehandedly - more than a match for a single vampire, especially minus dead rats - a vampire who possesses no skill related to fighting she would not normally have encountered. Multiple weapons, enhanced speed, strength, reflexes, calculations makes for slicey, stabby, blasty death for your Mr Vampire.

http://img171.imageshack.us...

5. Hawkeye to hit him with a tranquilizing arrow. Tranquilizers have worked on Deadpool in the past and will serve well now

Deadpool has foreign chemical resistance - an arrow would not contain the massive dosages needed to override his healing factor - see the same source.

6. Sinister has, he does not have much mystical resistance and Ghostie as plenty to throw at him. Hellfire bolts, his chain and superior combat skills will allow the Rider to hold Sinister long enough to deliver a penance stare.

Sinister has molecular control, indeed is seen as good as invulnerable except for those instances where his death forms a part of his future plans - able to reform completely destroyed molecules. Penance stare is pointless; Sinister is one of the highest level telepaths in Marvel - even if able to get past that, all it will do is tell Sinister what he already knows, the acts he has done. Sinister is a master planner, manipulating a large number of key members of the X-men and why? To defeat Apocolypse. Forcing Sinister to endure his own actions and repercussions is only going to result in..well duh of course I did that.

Mystical resistance is a misnomer, either damage will be dealt or it won't be, the source is irrelevant to the nature of his defence against it - his supreme control over his own body and all he needs to do is touch Ghost Rider once to paralyse him.

http://img35.imageshack.us...
http://www.comicvine.com...

7. Hawkeye's arrow finds Sage's reboot button rendering her temporarily disconnected.

Unfortunately (for you) that source only tells you/your team that she has one, not where, not where to aim, not where to hit, nor any negative effects of.

8. Victor uses his knowledge of science and the arcane arts to cast a cloaking spell over him and the rest of the team masking their genetic make up.

Victor however does not have that ability to use - Doom's listed abilities:
Mystical Blasts, Mystical Force-fields, Invoke Entities, Mystical Ensnaring, Mystical Portals, Mind Transference
Any argument along the lines of - He can use magic therefore he can - I call no limits fallacy on, the ability to use magic is not a gate to a deus ex machina-esque ability list.

==
If Ghost Rider wishes to engage Sinister, he would fall to Sinister's extremely high strength, energy blasts, mental attacks, and paralysis. If Hannibal wishes to engage Spiral, she would likewise defeat him; a single vampire over a character capable of defeating the best the X-men have to offer, is not much of a battle. Misting is irrelevant, as to strike he is equally vulnerable to being struck, and Spiral has 6 arms, 4 of which hold weapons (plus stakes).

Even before the EMP bomb went off, the time in its construction would have been spent by Angela in destroying rats making all arguments related to them moot.

Doom's knowledge of EMP tech appears to be limited however - the range is determined by its power source and non nuclear devices do not have the blast range that nuclear based EMP ride upon - not even close to being city wide (see the wiki). Doom's suit being nuclear powered unfortunately doesn't save him from frying any electrical circuits of his own suit - essentially taking himself out of the match (paralysis). Thanks Doom!
==
Doom's ability to cloak DNA is unfounded; Sage upon the start of the battle reads all living members, transferring the data to Angela and Sinister. Sage uses the VR to access CTV scans of team Pro's members before they disappear into the lab - Deadpool loads them into his holographic projector.

Angela creates and distributes the virus necessary to kill all the rats.

They all share a giggle as Doom fries his suit.

If it's somehow made that Doom survives his own blast, Sinister targets Deadshot for mind control - Deadshot's apathy for living and desire for a worthy target make him susceptible to being encouraged to target Doom. Either way, 1 team member goes down.

Sage and Deadpool teleport away, with Sage tracking the movements of Hawkeye and Deadshot (assuming he bests Doom). Of their abilities super speed, or sight nor sound is part of them; both falling to long ranged sniper shots, unaware they were even targets.

Spiral has no issues in engaging Hannibal - whose enhanced strength speed etc., Spiral is more than apt to deal with. Not to mention ample time to shape stakes for her two free hands, of which Hannibal will not like when the two meet inside his chest.

Afterwards as Sinister engages Ghost rider, Spiral has plenty of time to cast rituals against him, paralysing or annulling his magical source - which she can likewise do against Doom. Sinister also has the endurance and strength to engage Doom directly, causing paralysis or crushing his gauntlets and ripping the mask away.
==
Team Pro is dead or disabled. Doom appears to be his own worst enemy. Hannibal is no match for Spiral's enhanced abilities and weapon skill. Hawkeye, Deadshot both fall to sniper fire or mental assault before they can even engage in battle. Ghost Rider is no match for Sinister's mind, or the supreme control of his own body.
Debate Round No. 1
sherlockmethod

Pro

Please see comments and I, again, apologize.
Puck

Con

An unfortunate turn of events. Thanks for the notice. :)
Debate Round No. 2
sherlockmethod

Pro

sherlockmethod forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
sherlockmethod

Pro

sherlockmethod forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Puck 7 years ago
Puck
Sorry to hear - enjoy whatever it is you will be doing. :)
Posted by sherlockmethod 7 years ago
sherlockmethod
Events have come up that will keep me away from debate.org for several weeks. I do not wish to go into detail, but I regrettably concede my debate here. I am fine. I apologize to Puck, the LM Classic participants, and LM for having to concede. I will be back in a couple of weeks and wish all well in my absence. Again, I am very sorry. Good luck Puck in your next debate.
Sherlockmethod
Posted by Puck 7 years ago
Puck
Storms and power outages had me worried there. >.>
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Logical-Master 7 years ago
Logical-Master
sherlockmethodPuckTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Vote Placed by patsox834 7 years ago
patsox834
sherlockmethodPuckTied
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Vote Placed by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
sherlockmethodPuckTied
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Total points awarded:04