The Instigator
Pro (for)
0 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
0 Points

LOL champs

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/12/2015 Category: Games
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 482 times Debate No: 71554
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)




I think that AD/TANK champs e.g.: riven , cho , zed and jayce are the best. And Mage is bad late game so they cant win without help. ADC can be shut down early and cant carry .And assassins can do sh*t any kind of tank.


I accept. For those of you who are unsure of what's actually going to be discussed, Pro clarified his stance before acceptance in the comments:
  • "I was making the point of top solo carry is the best ... But if your top gets fed over adc or mid or even your jungle it will win you the game. This debate will be me for carry tops and the contender will try to say other wise"

If I'm mistaken, my opponent is free to clarify in his next round. I'll also merely use this round for acceptance and some clarifications on what is and isn't a "carry top laner" for those of you who aren't really familiar with League. I'll list a pool of champions who I would call traditional "carry" top laners. My opponent is free to argue that other champions that should be included in the pool, but that would be a point of contestion in the debate.

Pool of "Carry Top Laners":

Darius -
Fiora -
Fizz -
Irelia -
Jayce -
Jax -
Riven -
Ryze -
Tryndamere -

Debate Round No. 1


So to start this debate i would like to say that i love top and jungle and this is what makes me feel the need to make my point. i have been in so many games were i am left to carry and maby mid sometimes. But me carrying is not because my skill or luck , its knowing how to play OPs such as lee sin to your advanage. I will use lee sin as an example. He starts of good(clear time , farm , dmg and HP ) and starts to snow ball , you cant focus him or gank him to shut him down because he is in jungle this makes it very hard to turn the game around for the other team. And then he gets fed so he can control North ,South ,East and West junge slowing the other jungler. Then we move on to team fight , he can start the fight and stay alive unlike most , his jump starts , if he needs he has his W for escape and the slow in AOE is good for fight.And is your haveing the problem of someone like KAT you just alt her in the face an she is turned to sh*t.

This is the same for many champs most in your list from last round.


First, the burden of proof lies entirely on the pro to prove that top lane carry champions are the strongest champions in the game. This is because
  • a) He's the one making the positive statement, which requires him to provide the proof for the statement. It would be illogical for him to say that he's Osama Bin Laden and ask us to disprove it, which means it's his responsibility to prove the claim he is making.
  • b) The definition of negate is to deny the truth of something (1), so my role as the negative debater is to simply refute pro's stance. That means the burden of proof lies 100% on pro.

This means that unless he provides you compelling proof that stands up to refutation as to why top lane carries are the best champions in the game, you vote con.

So then let's examine his last round.

He spends literally 100% of his last round talking about Lee Sin jungle. Let's talk about this for a second.
  • First, this helps my side because it's talking about the impact that a jungler can have on the game and absolutely snowball a game in the favor of their team. This means that if his argumenet in his last round is right, then it would mean that junglers were the best champions in the game, rather than top lane carries, which is directly contradictory to his stance.
  • Second, he advocates for Lee Sin to be one of the champions he is going to use to prove his side. Lee Sin is a jungler, rather than a top lane carry, meaning this is only further evidence for me.

With everything in his last round responded to, let's just conclude:

1. The burden of proof is entirely on him in this debate. If he can't prove to you that top lane carry champions are the best champions in the game, then you negate the resolution.
2. All of his arguments so far aren't even about top lane carry champions, so it's evidence for my side rather than his. Hold this against him.


(1) -
Debate Round No. 2


My point was tanky/ad champs are the best not tops it just so happens that most are top but i didt mean to say just top if you got that idea. i think lee sin was a good example because of his tank and his attack. And you failed to make one point on dota all you did was point out things in my argument i feel this makes me the winner of last round due to this . you might of proved me wrong on some things but you didt make any points that = you 0


Extend my argument that the burden of proof lies entirely on Pro's shoulders here. That's because he's the one making the positive claim that requires proof. It would be entirely illogical for him to make some sort of claim then ask me to disprove the claim without any reason to believe that the claim is true, meaning that he needs to be the one providing the proof for this debate. Absent that, there's no reason to believe his claim in the first place and you vote con.

Moreover, the very meaning of negating something is to deny the truth of something definitionally. That means that my role as the negative debater is to deny the truth of pro's position. This means it's entirely on him to provide sufficient proof that stands up to my scrutiny.

This means that I don't need to make a positive argument against the resolution to win this debate. It's sufficient for me to win the debate just by refuting pro's arguments.

Next, he tries to argue that he didn't mean to clarify that the only champions he was talking about were carry top laners and that he was trying to talk about just tanky or ad (attack damage) champions were who he was really trying to talk about.

This is him trying to shift the goalposts away from the original debate. Recall the comment I quoted in the previous round of his where he clarified his views to specifically, and I quote, "top solo carries". I even specifically gave him another opportunity to clarify his views before arguments were presented so that this kind of debacle wouldn't actually occur and he didn't correct me nor did he challenge the list of champions that I presented in the first round. Don't let him shift the goalposts now since that would be unfair to me.

This is also him trying to shift the goalposts entirely away from what we were originally going to be discussing to favor a burden that's almose entirely slanted in his favor. If we look at a list of all the champions who are attack damage champions, we have:

Aatrox -
Ashe -
Caitlyn -
Corki -
Darius -
Draven -
Ezreal -
Fiora -
Fizz -
Gangplank -
Garen -
Gnar -
Graves -
Hecarim -
Irelia -
Jarvan IV -
Jax -
Jayce -
Jinx -
Kalista -
Kha'Zix -
Kog'Maw -
Lee Sin -
Lucian -
Master Yi -
Miss Fortune -
Nocturne -
Olaf -
Pantheon -
Poppy -
Quinn -
Rek'Sai -
Renekton -
Rengar -
Riven -
Shaco -
Shyvana -
Sivir -
Skarner -
Talon -
Tristana -
Trundle -
Tryndamere -
Twitch -
Udyr -
Urgot -
Varus -
Vayne -
Vi -
Volibear -
Warwick -
Wukong -
Xin Zhao -
Yasuo -
Yorick -
Zed -

That's a total of 55 champions out of a total 123, nearly half of all the possible champions to pick from that can fulfill all five possible roles in the game. This is worlds apart from his original statement. Even if we clarified it down tankier attack damage champions we still get:

Jarvan IV
Lee Sin
Xin Zhao

That's still 25 different champions, nearly three times as many as the original list of nine I gave in the first round.

So, hold him to his original claim of top lane carry champions and the list I provided in the first round.


Pro has the entirety of the burden of proof. If he can't fulfill it you negate the resolution.

He has to defend top lane carry champions being the "best" in the game. Thus far he hasn't provided a single argument for this and has instead argued for the impact that junglers have on the game, which is in my favor instead of his. He's not fulfilling his burden of proof so you negate the resolution.
Debate Round No. 3


michael2000 forfeited this round.


This forfeit puts my opponent in a sticky situation. He can't make a new argument in the final round as that would be unfair to me for him to save all of his arguments until I only have one round to address them whereas I've been presenting ideas from the start. So don't let him make any new arguments for why top solo carries are the best role in the game.

This is incredibly problematic because without making a new argument in the final round, he has no arguments for why top lane carries are the best in the game. This means you negate off of the burden of proof argument I made at the top of m case
Debate Round No. 4


michael2000 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Interloped 1 year ago
I'm disappointed that I was unable to participate in this debate, especially after obtaining clarification.
Posted by Zaradi 1 year ago
Out of curiosity and since it has nothing to do with the debate what rank are you?
Posted by michael2000 1 year ago
I was making the point of top solo carry is the best and would beat other lanes if in a 1 vs 1 case mabey even 1 vs 2. But im not saying other roles dont help because they do. But if your top gets fed over adc or mid or even your jungle it will win you the game. This debate will be me for carry tops and the contender will try to say other wise if that is clearer for others.
Posted by Interloped 1 year ago
I am interested in debating this subject with you, please clarify a few things though.

What particularly are you trying to establish them as "better" at?

For example, are we establishing them as better for:

1) Solo Carrying
2) Tanking
3) Harassing
4) Counter Jungling
5) Lane Phase Sustain

I would like to debate which is better for #1 "Solo Carrying" meaning a champion that is best at carrying a solo game with minimal assistance from his other 4 team members.

It would be beneficial to the voters for us to briefly explain the general mechanics of League of Legends game format and goals.
Posted by DieDork 1 year ago
Hi, the rules of this debate is very unclear...
Do you mean to argue that Tanks and AD-Melee champions are better then all other champions in the game?
You should also state if you want to debate them with 6 items or 0, and lvl 1 or 18.

You make it very hard to debate since noone knows what you are really debating.
No votes have been placed for this debate.