The Instigator
Angelo
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
16kadams
Con (against)
Winning
16 Points

Labor unions

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
16kadams
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/11/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 878 times Debate No: 20341
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (5)

 

Angelo

Pro

I failed last debate so I will do better this time. Basically a re-match.

1. Help pay workers more

Raise wages for all workers. Studies show that a large union presence in an industry or region can raise wages even for non-union workers
http://www.americanrightsatwork.org...

The union membership rate for public sector workers (36.2 percent) was
substantially higher than the rate for private sector workers (6.9 percent).
In 2010, among full-time wage and salary workers, union members had median usual
weekly earnings of $917, while those who were not represented by unions had median
weekly earnings of $717.
http://www.bls.gov...

more pay = good no?

2. more leverage

unions allow employees to band together to negotiate for better wages and benefits, and to make sure that everyone is being treated fairly by the employer.
http://www.proconlist.com...

I believe more pay would be good for the US economy. Because reward = good right?

3. Create jobs

Created jobs for hundreds of people and immigrants.
http://www.proconlist.com...

Benefit local economic development. In partnerships with employers, community organizations, and local governments, unions have helped revitalize local economies by saving and expanding family-supporting jobs.

http://www.americanrightsatwork.org...

4. raise overall minimum wage

Advocate for increases in the minimum wage and push for living wage ordinances. Unions have been instrumental in efforts to increase the federal minimum wage, state minimum wages and in the successful living wage movement which has already resulted in over 150 local living wage laws nationwide.
http://www.americanrightsatwork.org...

conclusion:

labor unions are good. Also if there is a link under the paragraph then it was copy and pasted. Vote pro I have won.
16kadams

Con

you have improved, but you really need to debate other people ;)

C1: hurt the economy

Companies pass on those higher wages to consumers through higher prices, and often they also earn lower profits. Economic research finds that unions benefit their members but hurt consumers generally, and especially workers who are denied job opportunities.[1]

The economic detriment is because of increased wages. More wages = higher cost, higher cost = harder to higworkers as you have less money.

Unions effectively tax these investments by negotiating higher wages for their members, thus lowering profits. Unionized companies respond to this union tax by reducing investment. Less investment makes unionized companies less competitive. [1]

less investment = less economic growth.

C2: raise unemployment

Faced with such an economically unattractive scenario, corporations will choose to reduce their labor costs by outsourcing work, replacing workers with machines, and/or moving manufacturing facilities to low-labor-cost nations.[2]

by the way the economic unattractiveness is partially due to unions [2]

C3: raise costs of goods

Furthermore, those high union-mandated wages result in increased prices for manufactured goods. It has long been an established fact that as labor costs increase, demand for consumer goods diminishes and the pool of consumers shrinks. [2]

There are times when wages need to be raised to be equitable, but the power of the unions is that they can sometimes raise wages and benefits to unrealistically high levels. These levels can be above what the market can sustain, which will cause the manufacturer to raise the costs of items that it produces. [3]

The above framework doesn't rule out the theoretical possibility that union agitation leads to wage hikes, which in turn lead to general price hikes [4]

C4:RAISE TAXES

California's government unions could seek a 43 percent tax increase on wealthy Californians. The Contra Costa Times reported on the action, but missed the magnitude of the tax increase. [5]

They call for tax increases.

A Nevada labor union leader said his organization is "looking seriously" at launching a ballot initiative to put a tax hike to increase funding for education to the voters, possibly as early as the 2012 general election. [6]

Another call

=conclusion=

my case refutes his arguments. Labor unions hurt the economy. Vote con!

sources:

http://www.heritage.org... [1]
http://stephencabotblog.com... [2]
http://www.ehow.com... [3]
http://mises.org... [4]
http://www.calwatchdog.com... [5]
Debate Round No. 1
Angelo

Pro

1) How do they hurt the economy? It is simple, higher wages = more productivity.
union workers are higher quality than you would expect for the job they are doing.
http://www.economist.com...

2) This makes no sense. Higher wages do not always mean outsourcing. Also since it rates more productivity then it would HELP the economy and make a better workforce.

3) I concede this. But once again, I think a better workforce would balance this out.

4) They do not increase taxes, they ask for increases.

You are wrong, I have already proven my point. Vote pro.
16kadams

Con

1) Higher wages higher unemployment

I will use min wage as an example:

Economists have studied the job-destroying features of a higher minimum wage. Estimates of the job losses of raising the minimum wage from $4.25 to $5.15 have ranged from 625,000 to 100,000 lost jobs. It is important to recognize that the jobs lost are mainly entry-level jobs. By destroying entry-level jobs, a higher minimum wage harms the lifetime earnings prospects of low-skilled workers. [1]

c/p from source. This means that the higher wage increaces unemployment, like the labr unions. Same concept.


2) Never said it out soruced. Also is is from your source:

However, unions often offer resistance to new work processes that might increase efficiency, and not just ones that would decrease labour demand. [2]

So it makes things slow and costly. Other ways to raise wages (but not for all) may helo ease the system still providing economic stability, which unions re supposed to do but don't.

3) You cinceded this.

4) ok not really.

Sorry I think I have won. Vote con. Btw my 6th source from last round is in the comemnts.


http://www.house.gov... [1]
http://www.economist.com... [2]
Debate Round No. 2
Angelo

Pro

I have learned a lot in my other debate (SSM) but here i have already lost. I have incidentally been "noobish" and probably cannot save myself. I must concede sadly. I know what noob is because I google searched it. I hope I become better later. Vote con! I concede.
16kadams

Con

I win vote con!
Debate Round No. 3
16kadams

Con

that's that vote para mi. Thanks for the wonderful debate. I see you HAVE gotten better in your SSM debate.
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
teafood he gave up...
Posted by vmpire321 2 years ago
vmpire321
My grandpa prob doesn't even know how to use a computer.... D:
Posted by vmpire321 2 years ago
vmpire321
lol@thett.
Posted by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
lol your mean to him cameron. but he really is getting better. He copied my style of debate, which makes him look like a better debater in his SSM debate.
Posted by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
oh forgot 6 source:
http://www.lasvegastribune.com... [6]
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by jimtimmy 2 years ago
jimtimmy
Angelo16kadamsTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Counter Teafood votebomb
Vote Placed by Teafood 2 years ago
Teafood
Angelo16kadamsTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: The sue of heritage and GOP sourcesmade con lose the source point.
Vote Placed by vmpire321 2 years ago
vmpire321
Angelo16kadamsTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Meh. Don't give up so easy XD
Vote Placed by thett3 2 years ago
thett3
Angelo16kadamsTied
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Reasons for voting decision: If my grandfather debated with me it would make my life <3
Vote Placed by cameronl35 2 years ago
cameronl35
Angelo16kadamsTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Grandpa just got schooled.