The Instigator
2cents4change
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
dsjpk5
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points

Large companies should provide on-site daycare for workers or provide higher salaries

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
dsjpk5
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/3/2016 Category: Society
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 407 times Debate No: 84498
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (3)

 

2cents4change

Pro

Companies with over 150 employees should provide on-site childcare or compensate worker with higher wages so they can pay for childcare.

Childcare concerns make up for why most employees tend to miss work or are considered unproductive in the workplace. The cost of child care, added transportation costs get to and from childcare providers to work and home,and time constraints are some factors KEEPING able bodies parents from entering the workforce, thereby one reason unemployment stays high. One way to rectify the problem is to support a close-knit connection between parent and child throughout the day. Providing daycare that is both interactive and can be observed by the parent (with some ground rules ), helps increase employee productivity and attendance.

The real burden of caring for children falls disproportionately on women, who in the U.S. still perform twice as much child care and domestic work as men, even as they work outside the home. Women held 49.83% of the nation's 132 million jobs in 2015 and they are gaining the vast majority of jobs in the few sectors of the economy that are growing, according to the most recent numbers available from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Nearly one-quarter of the best employers for working mothers provide four or fewer weeks of paid maternity leave, and half provide six weeks or less, according to an Institute for Women"s Policy Research.
dsjpk5

Con

I would like to thank my opponent for creating this debate.

PLAGIARISM

My opponent plagiarized the vast majority of his/her first round from the following website:

www.campaignercrm.com " crm " post

I ask the voters to consider this when voting on this debate.
Debate Round No. 1
2cents4change

Pro

As that one of the questions posed to voter is that the debater provided reliable sources, plagiarism don't not occur if works independent of the debaters are used as a source. I apologized for not citing my references and will make sure I do in future debates.

Is it your view that unless the debater has performed the research themselves, they can not use them as a source to form their opinion and basis for their debate view ?

Even if that is your opinion, by choosing to be my opponent you choose to present a view opposing the DEBATE QUESTION, which you have not done by the way, instead focusing on my use of source material in my debate and not presenting a opposing dialog.
dsjpk5

Con

You haven't offered any argument, so I have nothing to rebut. You copied and pasted two full paragraphs. You passed it off as your own thoughts. You didn't use any quotation marks, not did you provide a link to your source.
Debate Round No. 2
2cents4change

Pro

I apologized for that but you keep harping on it so ( shrug )

" I am a single mother with two kids, one with autism. Because of appointments, medical and behavior problems, I have to pay $12 an hour for babysitting with rates averaging $6-8 in my area for normal babysitting. That $18 an hour for two kids when the average wage around here is $9 minus taxes so about $6-7. I'm already $12 in the hole JUST BY VIRTUE OF WORKINg and spend hours doing menial labor and away from my kids affording them less quality time. And still when I get home I will have to clean, laundry, cook, get the kids ready for bed, and a host of other household tasks. Companies should pay a living wage that covers childcare for working parents or provide childcare on site. Many parents are called away from the office cause many schools nowadays don't have nurses on permanent staff so if a child is coughing or running a fever, instead of giving them medicine and keeping them in school unless their condition worsens, the parent is called and told to pick up the student. Also the child is not suppose to come back to the school till they are well forcing the parents to stay home with the child and losing money by not working or have to scramble to find a sitter that will take sick children, EXCEEDINGLY RARE, and usually hike hourly rates to $10-15hr and the parent ends up working the day to pay for a sitter. Company childcare onsite with a separate sick area would elevate this problem. "

Source : ME

Is that better ?
dsjpk5

Con

I am encouraged to see my opponent finally offering some original content. I feel like this debate has finally begun, and I now have something to rebut.

BURDEN OF PROOF

Now that we've finally begun, let's take care of some housekeeping. As the instigator, and the one who is advocating for a change in the status quo, my opponent has the full burden of proof. In order to win, I am not required to make a case for why employers shouldn't have on-premise daycare. All I'm required to do is refute Pro's arguments and I automatically win the debate.

REBUTTAL

Despite the fact that I'm glad to see my opponent has stopped plagiarizing, I have to say I found her arguments less than compelling. The reason I say that is because every argument my opponent offered this round falls under the category of some kind of logical fallacy. It's because of this that her entire third round should be rejected by the voters. Let me explain:

Logical Fallacy #1:

Anecdotal Evidence

My opponent spends the first half of her argument telling us about the difficulties she personally has paying for daycare. Although we all can sympathize with her struggle, this kind of anecdotal evidence is not trustworthy because the sample size is too small. Because of this, we are unable to come to any reliable conclusions. [1]

Logical Fallacy #2:

Bare Assertion

The second half of Pro's argument did properly expand the emphasis of sample size. My opponent tried to make an argument based on the effects of daycare on a large group. Here's the problem: Pro offers zero supporting evidence to support her claims. This is a practice known as a "bare assertion". This type of argument should be rejected because it's an argument made without any support. Because of this, we have no reason to trust the claims of the argument [2]

Sources:

1. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com...

2. http://toolkitforthinking.com...
Debate Round No. 3
2cents4change

Pro

1st - I am not a professional debater nor have a law degree and thought this site was a open forum for general everyday people to politely go back and forth on issues - Im gonna make mistakes and take a more relaxed attitude in my debating becuae of this

2nd - I started with factual accounts in my first round as a groundwork - I apologized i didn't cite my source but as the research has been done, or I can only assume done by the source, I would infer they produced their numbers and views based on a large sample size. I can not nor can each debater PERSONALLY research and survey 100's or 1000's of varying individuals and groups to present statistics and numbers to support their argument. ( Im a single mother after all lol ) So I must rely on the internet/scientific papers and reports by other individuals or organizations.

3rd - I added my personal account to illustrate WHY I PERSONALLY believe the supporting evidence I presented earlier not as a deciding factor or statistic in support. Though I am sure my situation in not the ONLY one, I am not asserting it as scientific conclusion FOR the necessity of on-site childcare, just as WHY it is a necessity for ME to be a working American, which we need more of in this country for various reasons.

4th - I still contest that you have not put worth a conflicting side to the proposed debate ISSUE except for your conflict with HOW I have debated and therefor have not fulfilled your role as my opponent but has only fulfilled your role as an advisor on how you think I can be a better debater. I appreciate your advice but wanted to debate on the issue, not on the nuances of the debating form.
dsjpk5

Con

1. My opponent said she is not a professional debater, and that she's going to make mistakes.

REBUTTAL

I am also not a professional debater. I too make mistakes. This isn't really relevant to the topic at hand, but I'm glad to find out she and I have some things in common.

2. Pro recounts her plagiarism from round one. She doesn't seem to understand the gist of what I said back then.

REBUTTAL

No one expects any member of this website to conduct their own case studies. All of us rely on the work of others. The problem arises when you attempt to pass off that information as your own thoughts. This is debate.org, not copy and paste.org. Copying and pasting is NOT an argument. If you would have put the argument in your own words, sprinkled in some statistics, used quotation marks, and cited your source, it would have been fine. That's what makes an argument. Without doing that, you didn't really make an argument, and as such, there was nothing for me to argue against. Also, since these debates are voted on, I was fair for me to point this out to the voters, as your plagiarism concerns conduct (one of the voting issues).

3. My opponent defends her use of her personal story.

REBUTTAL

Although I am compassionate towards your struggle, I have to say that it's not really impactful or relevant to the debate resolution. Remember, we're debating whether or not ALL employers of at least 150 employees should provide daycare for ALL of their employees. With this in mind, before we can begin debating the issue, we're going to need data involving thousands (or millions) of employees. You're one example isn't going to give us a clear enough picture to make any judgment. Remember, your first round offering doesn't count since it wasn't an argument made by you. I'm debating you, not the author of that blog.

4. Pro points out that although I have refuted her arguments, I haven't made a negative case on this issue.

REBUTTAL

I don't have to. Since you have the full burden of proof, all I have to do to win this debate is to refute your case. I still may produce a negative case concerning the topic (I haven't decided yet), but I am under no obligation to do so.

I'm glad we got that out of the way. I will now await my opponent as she certainly will begin to make her own, relevant arguments.
Debate Round No. 4
2cents4change

Pro

The only thing your allowing me to argue or rebut is YOUR ANALYSIS OF ME AS A DEBATER cause that is ALL YOU HAVE POSTED ! ?????

I believe I HAVE presented a case for why I believe on site daycare should be provided at large companies. I could expand on it but I would need input of a opposite side but my opponent has instead elected to keep criticizing me AGAIN AND AGAIN and not presented their side of the agreement. They site they don't feel like it. Maybe in a criminal or civil case it is on the prosecutor to present ALL the evidence and the defense can just poke holes or cast doubt and don't have to present evidence if they choose not to but I don't think or believe that is how a debate should be run. Mud slinging to degrade your opponent or act as a smoke screen to your ignorance of the matters without presenting your views and solutions to such matters is whats happening in the Presidential election and I disagree its use there as well.

If you win by using these tactic (shrug) oh well - I'll survive, I am comfortable how I conducted myself, and will keep on trucking - Its the American way lol
dsjpk5

Con

My opponent says that I am only allowing her to rebut my analysis of
her as a debater. This is not accurate. She was always free to expand
on anything she said. There was nothing I could do to prevent that.
It was she who chose to type the words we see above. In my defense,
the only time she ACTUALLY offered an argument was round three when she
told us her story. I was able to refute that argument, and the rest
of the time, she was either plagiarizing or was upset with me for
pointing it out. The fact that I pointed out her plagiarism is not
"mud slinging" nor "degrading". I was pointing out facts. This is no
different than the childhood story entitled "The Emporer's New
Clothes". Pointing out the Emporer wasn't wearing any clothes was
simply stating the facts.

FAIRNESS

Is it fair for Con to simply refute arguments without making a negative
case? Well let's see what the Debate.org tutorial has to say about this:

"Answering Arguments
A debater can "answer" an argument. What this means is they can tackle
the argument directly to try to defeat it and prove it wrong, moot,
negligible, or irrelevant. "Answers" specifically refer to rebuttals
that undermine the argument or the strength of the argument itself.
Under the idea of "answering" an argument comes a variety of different
tactics:

1. Exposing logical flaws is one way to answer an argument. For
instance, if an argument uses a logical fallacy (see "fallacies"
section), pointing this fallacy out undermines the argument." [1]

So you see, the rules of this website clearly say that one can answer
an argument by pointing out its fallacy (if one exists). Pro's
anecdotal evidence argument, and bare assertion argument are perfect
examples of such an instance.

BURDEN OF PROOF

Since my opponent has never denied having the full burden of proof, clearly I have not failed to meet any burden (since I have none).

NEGATIVE CASE

Despite not being required to provide a negative case, it seems as though I have some characters to spare, so why not? The negative case is easy to make:

Businesses, in today's economy, can't afford it. They are having a hard enough time paying for their employees healthcare, so they shouldn't be asked to take on an additional, expensive cost. It's estimated that over the next 10 years, up to 90% of businesses will drop employer provided health coverage. [2] Therefore, requiring them to take on daycare would only result in higher unemployment because they would have to fire people in order to afford to pay for it. This would make the current state of our economy worse, so this idea should be rejected

SUMMARY OF THE DEBATE

1. My opponent plagiarized her first round argument.

2. Her only arguments were logical fallacies

3. I refuted all of her arguments, and went beyond what I was required to do and provided a negative case (with sources to support my argument).

Sources:

1. https://docs.google.com...

2. http://www.Forbes.com...
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
I really enjoyed this debate. I hope my opponent gained some helpful experience and wish her nothing but the best!
Posted by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
www.campaignercrm.com/post/should-employers-be-providing-childcare
Posted by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
www.campaignercrm.com/.../post/should-employers-be-providing-childcare
Posted by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
Should employers be providing childcare?
by Crystal O'Brien
Share with your sales colleagues
1
inShare

5
Are employees truly happier and more productive if their children are in the same building at a company provided daycare facility? Are they more likely to show up on time and take fewer days off?

Reports by the National Conference of State Legislatures state that employer onsite childcare issues are causing more problems than any other family-related issue in the workplace today. With increases in absenteeism and tardiness reported in 9 out of 10 companies, 80% of the companies surveyed said that work days were cut short because of child-care problems. This study showed that the institution"s onsite daycare programs saved $138,000 to $232,000 in annual operations costs, due to the reduction in both turnover and absenteeism. But is this choice right for every company out there?

Companies that offer daycare in the workplace contribute a significant benefit to the employee. As a result of the FMLA, employers are realizing that childcare concerns make up for why most employees tend to miss work or are considered unproductive in the workplace. One way to rectify the problem is to support the close-knit connection between parent and child throughout the day. Providing daycare that is both interactive and observed by the parent helps increase employee productivity and attendance.

The real burden of caring for children falls disproportionately on women, who in the U.S. still perform twice as much child care and domestic work as men. Women held 49.83% of the nation's 132 million jobs in June and they are gaining the vast majority of jobs in the few sectors of the economy that are growing, according to the most recent numbers available from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Nearly one-quarter of the best employers for working mothers provide four or fewer weeks of paid maternity leave, and half provide six weeks or less, according to an Institute for Wome
Posted by TheLawIsOnMySide 1 year ago
TheLawIsOnMySide
I will argue with you but you need to clarify:

Are we talking about government employees, or regular corporation employees, or any employee group at all?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Unbelievable.Time 1 year ago
Unbelievable.Time
2cents4changedsjpk5Tied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: This debate is an automatic win for Con due to Pro plagiarises in his first round.
Vote Placed by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
2cents4changedsjpk5Tied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct goes to Con due to Pro's plagerism in the debate. I have to give arguments to Con since the only arguments that Pro made that were not plagerised were that of logical fallacies and even those were refuted. Pro doesn't have an argument left standing, so I have to give those points to Con as well. He wins sources since he's the only one who used sources in the debate.
Vote Placed by bballcrook21 1 year ago
bballcrook21
2cents4changedsjpk5Tied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro did absolutely nothing. Pro didn't even use any sources. Pro used an entire round talking about her experiences, but posting information about your own life is very hard to double - check, meaning that I cannot believe, under any circumstances, that what Pro said about her life is/was true. Nonetheless, Pro did copy and paste the entirety of her opening argument, and did not write the source. She then apologized, and still didn't write the source, after she agreed that she should have written the source. Con did a better job with arguments, as Pro really had none in the first place. Con also presented a good case, and used evidence to support it. This was just terrible. I do not understand how an adult can debate so poorly, but then again, this is America. Con gets argument and sources, Pro made literally 0 argument related to the debate topic.