The Instigator
natertig
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points
The Contender
PlumberGirl123
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Late Term Abortion

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
natertig
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/6/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 773 times Debate No: 58608
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (18)
Votes (2)

 

natertig

Con

I believe that late term abortions are wrong. I am against most if not all abortions, but this debate will be exclusively concerning Late Term Abortions, which is any abortion past the 20th week of gestation.

I don't understand the word choice when it comes to abortion. What about the baby and their choice? Do they not get a choice when it comes to THEIR own life? It is also extremely odd to me that a single cell on Mars is referred to as "life", but millions of cells inside a woman's womb is a "blob of tissue" that can be terminated/aborted.

Any abortion after 20 weeks should be classified as murder since the heart is beating and the brain is functioning. In fact, a baby's heart begins to beat 18 days from conception, and by 21 days the heart is pumping blood through a closed circulatory system. If this isn't life, I have no idea what is. I would challenge my opponent to define life and when it begins. If not when the baby's heart begins beating and it's brain is functioning, then when?

The baby also has a very active brain just six weeks into pregnancy. While the heart of the baby starts beating at about three weeks, it cannot be detected by an ultrasonic stethoscope until around 8 weeks. Brainwaves and brain function on the other hand can be detected as early as 6 weeks. Again, I ask my opponent when life begins in their opinion. Study after study proves that at 8 weeks, the brain AND heart are both functioning and detectable through ultrasonic analysis.

Biology is crystal clear that at the moment of conception (also known as fertilization), a unique organism comes into existence. Since this new life possesses human DNA and is the offspring of human parents, it can legitimately only be described as human life.

Since there can be no question that human zygotes, embryos and fetuses are alive, some have attempted to claim that human beings are not "persons," until some threshold is crossed, such as viability, the capacity to feel pain, birth, or even the first year after birth. The merits of such notions can be debated, but it should be clear that they are not based on science but rather on ideology, philosophy or belief.

As far as observable science is concerned, human life begins at conception.

Again, I am not debating when life begins, or if abortion (in general) is acceptable. This debate is strictly limited to late term abortions and I head to my opponent for further response.

Source: http://www.abortionfacts.com...
Source: http://www.justfacts.com...
Source: http://www.livestrong.com...
Source: http://www.pewresearch.org...
PlumberGirl123

Pro

First I'm going to say that this is my first debate. I believe in all abortions and any reason the mother wants to abort the fetus. It is her body, she has rights but a fetus does not. The mother made the fetus and she can take it out. The fetus has no rights, it is a clump of cells. The mother should not be held captive In her own body by an unwanted parasite. For late term abortions There is different cut off dates in certain areas of the world. It doesn't matter if the fetus has a heart beat or not. A late term abortion gives the mother time to change her mind. Maybe a teen mom planned on giving a pregnancy but then realized it would be better if she aborted because she is young and will not be able to focus on her education and provide for her kid. obviously you wouldn't be getting an abortion at 8 and 1/2 months because that's just too late. it doesn't matter that brain waves have formed, just because something has cells doesnt mean we should stop aborting. Lol if you can't tell I'm not amazing at explaining what I'm saying but I am trying so hang in there lmao. If a fetus has an arm forming (which they do) that doesn't mean it shouldn't get aborted. It's a fetus and I can't speak on a cut off date for everyone because everyone has different opinions. People say 'what about the fetus's choice?'..well what about it? It doesn't have a choice, it leeches off of the mother and it has no say whatsoever. giving a fetus rights is like giving sperm rights. A guy masterbates and it 'kills' its sperm..how far are people going to go to try to give every cell rights? I'm typing this on my iPod so I'm afraid that if I go to get resource sites that its going to cut off all I typed. And I can't remember some of the things my opponent said so sorry if I don't answer some of the things he said. the brain waves and heartbeat is just the fetus growing, just like any other parts. It's not like it changes everything..it's still a fetus. And if it gets aborted late then who cares? it doesn't matter, the fetus doesn't know anything. I'm not sure on how to end this because much of what I say probably wont matter to most people anyways but I will say that the mother is an adult and has rights. It is the boss of its own body and has every right to terminate a pregnancy. The only thing I am AGAINST is drinking/smoking/doing drugs while you are pregnant because if you decide to actually give birth then you don't want the fetus to get birth defects. there's not much I have to say on brain waves or growing of the fetus because an abortion is an abortion and the mothers right goes above everything. Late terms abortion will happen, the only thing people have to worry about is themselves. The mother will go through the late term abortion, she knows the results, the fetus will stop growing and that's the end of that. I will probably have more to say after I submit this but oh we'll. I just think realistically when it comes to life, not emotionally. The fetus is not a cute Gerber baby people try so hard to make it seem to be.
Debate Round No. 1
natertig

Con

I must point out that my opponent did not address any of the facts and she did not explain what life is in her opinion. She claims that a baby lives off of it's mother, but don't we all live off of our parents until we are adults? A baby cannot survive without it's mother when it's 5 months old any more than it can when it's 20 weeks into being formed as a fetus. It always needs the mother regardless.

My opponent also claims she is for "all abortions" meaning that she is also in support of taxpayer funded abortions, which takes tax dollars and gives them to abortion providers and women seeking abortions. This is not the topic though, so I will refrain from going deeper down that road.

My opponent also claims that a fetus is the same as sperm, but simple science tells us this is absolutely not true. Sperm is one half of what a fetus needs to even be a fetus. When a sperm and an egg come together, they create a zygote, which then becomes a fetus. Sperm isn't even comparable to a fully formed fetus.

I also see above that my opponent doesn't think it matters if a baby is aborted late term because it doesn't know anything. This is scientifically wrong. A baby might not understand what is going on, but a fetus can feel pain just 9 weeks from conception. Study after study proves that all the structures necessary for pain are present at 9 weeks from conception.

I also find it absolutely unbelievable that you put a mother's choice over an innocent child's life. When does that end? I saw in one of your other posts concerning abortion where you stated that the parent is an adult and they should make all of the choices for their child. Do you honestly not see the difference between a parent giving their child a curfew and a parent having their child terminated and aborted? The fact that you would relate parenting and authority to killing an innocent child is quite scary to be honest.
PlumberGirl123

Pro

Clearly you didn't understand a word I said. Where did I say I think it's right for people to pay for someone else's abortion?? And yeah I do support all abortions but I'm talking about for their reasons! It's unwanted. They arnt ready. Poverty. Overpopulation. and are you stupid?! It's clear that a fetus is not a sperm! I gave that as an example to how far people will go in life to get 'rights' for cells. It's ridiculous and rather stupid. A fetus doesn't deserve rights because its nothing! An adult deserves rights unlike a clump of cells..and ya us kids growing up rely on our parents for things but you know what.. The mother CHOOSES not to abort them! So an UNWANTED parasite is leeching off of the mother. Of course we have every right to get rid of it. And did I not mention that I can't go back and see what you said! And did I not say sorry that I might not respond to everything you said! Read my texts and actually look at then before you open your mouth. And they arnt innocent babies! They are fetus's and they dont matter. A unwanted fetus isn't gonna control an adults life. What don't u understand? and yes I will relate these 2 because a mother taking care of her wanted baby is different then a mother aborting her unwanted fetus. The mother has a life and needs to focus on education and working. She's not just gonna throw it all away for something useless. In life there are paths we can take.. A left, a right, a forward whatever. Same goes for an abortion. We can have one or we might choose not to. The mother needs to think realistically on what is best for her. stop trying to mount a fetus up to an adult cuz that's not happening. A fetus has no say and the mother has all the say. Again..she created it and she can take it out until 9 months. However once it is born she cannot abort it. Thus she has a few months to think about a decision that will change her life forever. and again..THEY ARNT INNOCENT!! Enough with that crap cuz it could grow up to be a rapist. Or as you would say "it could grow up to find the cure for cancer". Ya right.. Lol
Debate Round No. 2
natertig

Con

Regardless of who wins this debate, calling me stupid will not help your side. If a pregnancy is unwanted, maybe the mother should have thought about that before she had sex. And please do not say, "what about girls that are raped?". I have compassion for people that have been thorough extreme trauma and are left with a child, but rape is 0.01% of all rapes reported. That means out of 1000 abortions, 1 will be because of rape. The only way to produce a baby is sexual intercourse, so if you are big enough of an adult to consent to sex, I think you should be responsible for what your actions create. If the people are in poverty, maybe they should focus more on working and less on having sex, but giving them a way out will not solve the problem. If they know they will always be able to be bailed out of their situation, they will never learn.

And comparing sperm to a fetus "as an example to how far people will go in life to get rights for cells" is preposterous. No one in the world is trying to legislate sperm. No one in the world is trying to legislate a female egg, because without each other, a sperm and an egg are NOT a fetus. You can say it's not a baby and it doesn't matter all you want, but science says you are wrong. You haven't addressed any of my facts about heartbeats or brain waves because you simply don't care. Instead, you are willing to sit here and ask me if I'm stupid, yet you haven't responded to any of the reliable evidence I have given. I am not trying to have "an unborn fetus control an adult's life", I am trying to save the fetuses life. It is scientifically a baby, what don't you understand about that?

I have given you facts, reason, and logic...you have given me your opinion. I am quite sure I NEVER once compared a fetus to an adult. They are very different in appearance, personality, developmental stage, and so forth, but their lives are just as equally important. A child is not the equivalent to an adult, but does that mean the mother should choose to end that child's life? Again, you say she has months and months to think about this decision all the way up until the 9th month. Even the most ardent pro-choice individuals have never said anything as disgusting as that.

Life begins at the moment of conception. This is the definition given in any respectable medical textbook. To declare a beginning of life at any point after the fusing of a wife"s egg and a husband"s contribution is irrational and an exercise in sophistical chicanery. Only machines such as clocks and cars come into existence part by part. Living beings come into existence all at once and gradually unfold their world of innate potential. A living human person begins to exist at the moment of conception, even though only as a cell. What is important is not the accident of size or weight but the essence " which is fully human. The unborn baby has a distinct, unchanging and unrepeatable genetic code, unique in all of history, from the moment of conception till death. Nothing is added except nutrition and oxygen.

Late-term abortion refers to the deliberate killing of babies whose mothers are far along in their pregnancies. That"s where the phrase "late-term" comes from. What does that mean? It means that the baby looks like a baby, acts like a baby, sounds like a baby and, if it"s born at this point, would have a fighting chance of living like a baby.

Late-term abortions are performed on women who advanced months into their pregnancies before their "desperation" set in. This "service" requires that the women be put through horrific medical procedures that involve giving them large doses of contraction-stimulating hormones to induce unusually violent and painful labor and delivery. A nurse who assisted in these things told me that the doctors they worked for deliberately stimulated contractions so violent that the contractions would usually kill the baby while it was being born.

Aside from what this does to the baby, what do you think it does to the woman? The grisly and illegal procedure we call "partial birth abortion" requires that the baby be delivered feet first, then the delivery stopped so that the doctor can suction out the baby"s brain before it is legally born. Proponents of this procedure talked about how it was necessary for "women"s health." But I ask you, aside from what it does to the baby, what do you think that does to the woman? How is that consistent with "women"s health?"
I"m not talking about her emotions here. I am talking about labor and delivery practices that are painful, dangerous and quite horrible for the woman. How is this something that protects "women"s health?"

The answer is, it doesn't.

In addition to what this does to the woman, consider for a moment that many of these babies must be deliberately killed before the procedure takes place to keep them from being born alive. The way I"ve heard that this is usually done is to give the baby a shot of poison directly into its heart. This means jabbing a needle through the mother"s abdomen and into the baby. It means the mother has to feel her baby thrash around the avoid the needle, then feel it die. All this is done to keep the legal fiction that this late-term abortion is not, in fact, a cold-blooded murder.
In spite of this, many of these babies are born alive. The doctor might miss the mark and not shoot the poison into the baby"s heart. Or, the dose might be too small. Or, the doctor doesn't administer the death-dealing drug and the baby is strong enough to survive the excessively violent contractions the doctor puts the mother through.
PlumberGirl123

Pro

i said "are you stupid?!" because you think i dont know the difference between a fetus and a sperm? there is a subject i know called Biology. Do you really think abstinence is the answer?..im gonna go straight to reality here and say no one would stop doing it. Sex is a natural function that people love and enjoy. its great that abortion gives women a way out of a pregnancy because the woman willl not be forceed to give birth to a rock that she doesnt want. I will not say the rape thing because even though rape is a great reason for an abortion so is everything else. People try to think that only things like rape, incest, or danger to the mother are the only reasons to get an abortion. thats not true at all. Whatever reason the mother gives is a good reason to have an abortion. She doesnt want a stretched out scarred stomach. or a flappy vagina from the babys head at birth. Abortion is great for that. reasons dont matter. If she wants one she can simply get one. Abortion clinics are fairly convenient. and about the sperm getting rights..you never know, people are crazy. People are trying to giving a lump pf cells rights.. thats pretty crazy too. the fetus doesnt get a chance at life because it doesnt have a say and theres no excuse to why people think it should. the fetus does not have a place to say as to what happens to it cuz what does it know...nothing. the mother carries the parasite, she will decide the proper punishment for it. and no an unwanted fetus has no moral value. It is nothing close to importance as the mother does. The mother is what is important, not a couple cells. And ya late term abortions are abortions that are a little later than usual.. so what? When mothers do late term abortions they know what happens, they know the results. So she will know that there will be some pain but it is worth inducing pain then it is being forced to give birth to something you dont want. Really, the mother will have a chance at focusing on what is actually important. So it is her health that she is choosing, so it doesnt matter what the procedure is because she does what is best for her and her future. So yes late term abortions still protects the mother in multiple ways. Late term abortions give you a chance to change your mind, the mother knows the results, she is the only one that has the right to make any decision, focus on work, not on ruining your life with a burden you cant get rid of. Keep the government our of our vaginas, so stop trying to give them opportunities to take away our rights that dont belong to them. if it had to do with men and their rights to reproduce this would be a whole different story to you guys. You have no idea what it is like to be a girl so stop trying to give up our say on our bodies. if men could get pregnant abortion clinics would be more available than convenient stores, walmart, and fast food places. #thumbsup4abortion
Debate Round No. 3
18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by PlumberGirl123 2 years ago
PlumberGirl123
I know but we arnt in the 50's anymore. In my eyes it's just pathetic.
Posted by TheLibertarian76 2 years ago
TheLibertarian76
Being a house wife dosent mean you can't go run errands or go to yoga.
Posted by PlumberGirl123 2 years ago
PlumberGirl123
Well I'd def not wanna be one Being stuck home like a maid, no way :&
Posted by TheLibertarian76 2 years ago
TheLibertarian76
Dishes not fishes
Posted by TheLibertarian76 2 years ago
TheLibertarian76
Plumber girl, being a housewife dosent imply he eir fos everything. My mother was a house wife, and father would help her out away the fishes and do other stuff
.
Posted by socratits 2 years ago
socratits
Hey natertig, we should debate on a topic :)
Posted by PlumberGirl123 2 years ago
PlumberGirl123
i think it should just be equal. not like perfectly but you know like a team. The wife could wash the dishes and the husband could dry and put them away. Just daily things.
Posted by TheLibertarian76 2 years ago
TheLibertarian76
And yes the husband can take care of the house sometimes
Posted by TheLibertarian76 2 years ago
TheLibertarian76
Women can go to work, but that dosent mean they can't be housewives
Posted by PlumberGirl123 2 years ago
PlumberGirl123
parasite was just spelling error cuz i hate taking forever to type, i already knew how to spell if that was what you are wondering. And not the tv show lol ive heard of it but never seen it. i know very well that life is not all about fun but there is a time to be serious and a time to be funny. When we were doing the debate i try to type the way i talk. obv im not going to say the letters LOL in my dialogue but i try not to be so serious and boring.. its a debate, its not like your in a serious political debate thats going to be heard on tv and around the world. You say what you think, and no i really dont care if i was aborted or not (not suicidal) but its really not my say wether i get to continue growing or not. i was just a fetus that didnt know anything or anything about what was going on. People hear what i think about abortion but if you actually met me im funny, considerate, clumsy, and energetic. (im not perfect at all but i am a pretty good person) For the hosuewives thing i understand taking care of your kid but you can still work and help pay the bills. the mother shouldnt just be doing the housework, the husband should too. If a woman gets a job she wont have to leech on to her husband for money. Men should still be gentlemen but when he takes you out on a date he shouldnt be the one paying for everything. and believe it or not but i do want kids. only 2. a boy & a girl. But i will have them when i am ready. Im not rushing at all cuz i wanna focus on becoming a plumber and making money so i can hopefully be financially stable. My diabetes is expensive. and in order to have kids i wanna be prepared to give them a good life. Not just get pregnant at a young age, not get an abortion and have then growing up with the struggle of putting food on the table and a roof over there head. As everyone knows the economy sucks. hopefully we can all atleast agree on that...i am not fighting with you, just trying to explain my words and what i mean.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Preston 2 years ago
Preston
natertigPlumberGirl123Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Pre insulted con, then continued to talk about abortion in general and not just late term abortion.
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 2 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
natertigPlumberGirl123Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro called Con stupid. Pro was badly formatted, writing was worse. Con provided sources in a debate over science. I support legal abortions but oppose the act.