The Instigator
Im_always_right
Pro (for)
Winning
9 Points
The Contender
TheBostonMassacre
Con (against)
Losing
6 Points

Late term abortion is worse than early abortion.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/3/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,874 times Debate No: 4891
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (5)

 

Im_always_right

Pro

i am against all types of abortion, however, I blieve late term abortion is worse than normal abortion. In late term abortion the fetus can be born, and will most likely live. Also anybody who is capable of going through the first two trimesters, without an abortion does not need one in the third trimester. By giving the late term abortion the pain will be the same whether the child is born or murdered. If the child is unwanted adoption is always open.

Even if you don't believe abortion is murder, you should believe that if at the time you get the abortion the child can be alive, that should classify as murder.

Most common arguements: "If the child is adopted the child will grow uo knowing [s]he is unwanted."
void, you don't have to tell the child [s]he is adopted, infants are more likely to be adopted than any other age group anyway.

"If the child is kept, it will be made clear [s]he is unwanted, and that would be worse for him/her than being slaughtered as an infant."

though that could be a good arguement, nobody says that the child must be kept, as i said before, adoption is the only "A" word for giving up a child, that is morally correct.
TheBostonMassacre

Con

First of all, thank you for inviting me to this interesting debate. I can't say I share you view though. I've never been a big fan of abortion. I've always seen the personal issue similarly to your description, an easy way out in most circumstances. But the reason abortion is, and always should be legal is a matter of the personal right too make a choice. I will give you two reasons why a late term abortion is just as viable as one in the first 2 trimesters.

First of all, I make my argument assuming we are both on the same ground about early abortions.

1) Economics: One of the reasons a mother has an abortion is because the father walks out on her, or she simply cant afford to have a baby at the time. I know, you seem to think adoption is an easy option, and in some circumstances, it may be, but certain places both in the US and around the world dont have adequate adoption facilities/programs, so they could be made similarly to an unheathy babies. Bringing me to...

2) Health of the child: According to the 2007 Surgeon General's Medical Report, 43% of pre-natal medical abnormalities or conditions are developed during or after the second trimester. If we agree the early term abortions are reasonable for this reason (health), than late terms are just as reasonable.
Debate Round No. 1
Im_always_right

Pro

I thank my opponent for accepting this debate.

"...the reason abortion is, and always should be legal is a matter of the personal right too make a choice..."

Since everone can agree that the child could be born and survive, at any time in the third trimester, I veiw it especially as murder. I don't agree with abortion at all, but late term abortion is worse, because of the fact that the baby could have been out at the time of the abortion.

"1) Economics: One of the reasons a mother has an abortion is because the father walks out on her, or she simply cant afford to have a baby at the time. I know, you seem to think adoption is an easy option, and in some circumstances, it may be, but certain places both in the US and around the world dont have adequate adoption facilities/programs, so they could be made similarly to an unheathy babies. Bringing me to..."

If the father walks out on her she can get child support, if they were married, can she not? Even if the answer of child support is there is no way she could ever get it, what about in family adoption? Like if that was the case with my mother, she could have given me to her sister, or her mother, or even her father. Chances are the woman has some kind of family. That can go financially too. Chances are the mother knows somebody that would love to have a baby, or would like to help.

2) Health of the child: According to the 2007 Surgeon General's Medical Report, 43% of pre-natal medical abnormalities or conditions are developed during or after the second trimester. If we agree the early term abortions are reasonable for this reason (health), than late terms are just as reasonable.

We have not agreed that physical and mental abnormalties=should be put to death.
Thus we cannot agree on the abortion being reasonale.
TheBostonMassacre

Con

Im not sure what world you live in where all pregnant couples are married and thus entitled to child support. I also dont know why you would assume that all women have families they can turn to for help (especially in the places i mentioned wouldnt have suitable foster systems). There are millions of babies born every year in the world and not all of them are born in houses w. married parents (or two parents at all) and families. Sure, if you have the means to protect a born child, than you should have them and do it. Im talking about people who would literally have their lives (and the life of the child) runied by not having an abortion.

As far as health, i am not advocating putting an unborn fetus to death because it would be born handicapped, but physical and mental abnormalities do not only effect the child, the effect the mother as well. If you're pregnant and your child develops cancer in the womb, the longer its in there, theres more of a cahnce the cancer spreads to you via blood stream.

But that brings me to another problem, you say that abortion is murder, but why are you setting perameters for when life begins? I hear people saying that once there is a heart beat, or a brain wave, the life is official, but says who? The being isn't concious and cant exist on its own. A dead person can have a heart beat and brain activity for hours, sometimes days after his death, does that mean hes still alive?
Debate Round No. 2
Im_always_right

Pro

"Im not sure what world you live in where all pregnant couples are married and thus entitled to child support. I also dont know why you would assume that all women have families they can turn to for help (especially in the places i mentioned wouldnt have suitable foster systems). There are millions of babies born every year in the world and not all of them are born in houses w. married parents (or two parents at all) and families. Sure, if you have the means to protect a born child, than you should have them and do it. Im talking about people who would literally have their lives (and the life of the child) runied by not having an abortion."

I never said all pregnant couples are married, I saids if they were they could easily claim child support. Yes not all women have friends and family they can turn to, but there is bound to be programs to help her. Even if abortion is the only option why third trimester, why not first trimester?

"As far as health, i am not advocating putting an unborn fetus to death because it would be born handicapped, but physical and mental abnormalities do not only effect the child, the effect the mother as well. If you're pregnant and your child develops cancer in the womb, the longer its in there, theres more of a cahnce the cancer spreads to you via blood stream."

I never said if her life was in danger to not kill it, because tha would eventually kill them both.

"But that brings me to another problem, you say that abortion is murder, but why are you setting perameters for when life begins? I hear people saying that once there is a heart beat, or a brain wave, the life is official, but says who? The being isn't concious and cant exist on its own. A dead person can have a heart beat and brain activity for hours, sometimes days after his death, does that mean hes still alive?"

If there is a chance that the being in question is alive, more harm would be done by killing it than to let it live. If there is a heart beat chances are it is alive. The dead man, he was alive at some point which is why his heart was ever able to beat. I wil no change my avatar, to my sister sucking her thumb for the purpose of this debate.
TheBostonMassacre

Con

In places like africa, latin america, really anywhere without money, foster programs are virtually a death sentence themselves and many pregnant mothers are completely on their own. Sometimes situations dont present themselves as such until late in the pregnancy. If you think there is even a single situation where abortion is acceptable (because of heatlh, financial situation, ect.) than theres no reason doing it late is any different from doing it early. And in times where the mother could have the child and safley give it to adoption, why is it any worse in the 3rd trimester than in the 1st 6 months? those women in the first 6 months will eventually be in their 3rd, so why is it worse or better?

What were really arguing about her is weighing why early and late term abortions are different, and in reality, how ever you tihnk of aboritons, they really arent different at all.

And to the whole death thing, you claim that endangering what would be a life is wrong. Does that mean masterbation is the murder of 1,000s of babies? There is no clear and simple answer as to when a baby's life starts and neither of us are qualified to make that assumption (nor is any other non-divine being on this planet). Saying that its murder is just generalizing the action.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Im_always_right 9 years ago
Im_always_right
Oh Obama? When did that happen, I thought you said something else, IDK my eyes aren't the best, at the moment, I'm surprised I can read half the stuff on here.

So where is your proof that Obama supported abortions?
Posted by Im_always_right 9 years ago
Im_always_right
Okay solarman, yes abortion is murder, yes he is evil, yes he must be stopped, but in some cases, when the mother's life is in danger abortion is not entirely wrong. In other cases yes it is pure evil.

If someone kidnaps and kills a two week old baby, it would be considered murder, so should abortion ESSPECIALLY late term abortion. Thus I agree, with you, but needed to make a few things clear with how I stand on it.
Posted by Xera 9 years ago
Xera
can you state what law that was he voted on? what the end result was? what year it was? or is this another one of those "Obama won's salute the flag things?" (for those unaware- if there are any- Obama held his hands at military salute during the Stars Spangled Banner instead of having his hand on his heart like other candidates had done. Few people, veiwing the picture, took the time to notice - every single person had their back to the flag)
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
abortion is murder

Obambi voted to kill live babies that are aborted abortions

LIVE babies

He is pure evil and must be stopped
Posted by Xera 9 years ago
Xera
These points, in round 1 made by pro were never negated:

"In late term abortion the fetus can be born, and will most likely live."

"Also anybody who is capable of going through the first two trimesters, without an abortion does not need one in the third trimester."

"By giving the late term abortion the pain will be the same whether the child is born or murdered. "

Presumably the later meant the pain to the mother. Further CON never explains why a woman in Africa and Latin America would be unaware of her financial and support situation until she were 28 weeks into a 40 week gestation.
Posted by jurist24 9 years ago
jurist24
This debate began as one that would focus on late term abortions vs. earlier term abortions. However, Pro never set out sufficient arguments for the proposition. The only statements made by Pro pertinent to the topic of debate was:

"In late term abortion the fetus can be born, and will most likely live." -- So? Why is this important?

And...

"Also anybody who is capable of going through the first two trimesters, without an abortion does not need one in the third trimester." -- Circumstances change, Pro. What was true during the first six months of the pregnancy may not continue during the last three.

Con's argument was good only to the point that it was sufficient to negate the above two statements. I'm totally divided on this issue personally, but I voted Con.
Posted by Im_always_right 9 years ago
Im_always_right
All they would have to do is the same thing, without sucking out the brain, that is the answer to your question.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by padfo0t 9 years ago
padfo0t
Im_always_rightTheBostonMassacreTied
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Vote Placed by Xera 9 years ago
Xera
Im_always_rightTheBostonMassacreTied
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Vote Placed by jurist24 9 years ago
jurist24
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Vote Placed by Im_always_right 9 years ago
Im_always_right
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Vote Placed by TheBostonMassacre 9 years ago
TheBostonMassacre
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