The Instigator
Midnight_Wind
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Emperor_Edward
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Law enforcment

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/10/2016 Category: Society
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 595 times Debate No: 97888
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

Midnight_Wind

Pro

Just want to know why some people dislike law enforcement.
Emperor_Edward

Con

Well, I don't know what your stance is on Law Enforcement, but I dislike the Law Enforcement of the United States of America due to he following reasons:
1) It is a corrupt system and we have seen that recently in the 2016 elections where the FBI hinted that they supported Trump and they continually researched Clinton's e-mails. We ave also seen this happen at the Watergate Scandal which forced President Nixon to resign.
2) Many of our officers from different parts of the country are racists. We have seen this after the fatal shootings of many innocent blacks and also the beating of Matthew Walker, an inmate at the Charlotte Correctional Institute (a jail) by at least ten corrections officers, many of which had more than thirty complaints filed against them. The beating resulted in the death of Mr. Walker and the Charlotte Police Department protected the ten corrections officers in spite of conclusive evidence against them.
3) Many of our officers are not trained well: our officers are continually shooting innocent people because the police officers are either racists, plain dumb, or not trained well. Granted, the officers have a right to their unalienable rights that John Locke describes most importantly as the right of life. But the right they do not have is to take another's life when the suspect clearly followed instructions. The recent shootings involving the female officer and a black man revealed that the suspect (the black man) clearly followed orders and yet the officer shot him... And it was also revealed that the female officer was once under the influence of drugs.
4) They are greedy as hell. Nowadays, officers are after the money rather than the protection of freedom, life, and liberty: I dunno about you, but where I live (a very very safe environment) officers continually arrest people for petty charges. Once I remember an officer fined a man who threw a burger away... seriously? Is there even a legitimate law where people cannot throw burgers away? And the man who did it was fined $200...
It is clear that our law enforcement is corrupt, untrained, inexperienced, and greedy. These are few of the many reasons why our law enforcement needs reform.
Debate Round No. 1
Midnight_Wind

Pro

Thank you for accepting my debate. My stance on law enforcement is that, yes we do need some reform, but otherwise the system is fine.
1.) About your 'corrupt system' comment. I do not understand, because law enforcement was doing their job they were wrong? Clinton's e-mails being researched was handled by the Federal Bureau of INVESTIGATION. The FBI investigates. It's in the name. The reason they are being investigated? A private server that she deleted MIGHT have classified information. What they are worried about is if it was hacked. Did you ever get in trouble with your parents about giving personal information in the web? This is what that is on a large scale. Nixon... That was before I was born and the executive branch handled that.

2.) Police Brutality. The big topic. I agree that there are racist officers, but how many? About the deaths of African Americans, what about Caucasians? I defiantly agree that those officers were in the wrong. Even if an inmate is causing trouble you don't hurt them.

3.) Not trained well. That really depends on were they go to the academy. Sometimes, fear gets the better of them and they shoot. Would you fire if someone else was pointing a gun at you?

4). Law Enforcement Salary Chart: http://www.indeed.com...
38%
Thirty. eight. percent. lower.

WOW
I don't know about you, but that is NOT greedy. And this is based of hours working. Not arrests. The throwing away a burger. Littering. ( I have to quote this: "Littering and? Littering and? Smokin' the reefer." I am so sorry could not resist)
From http://www.ncsl.org... "$20 in Colorado to $30,000 in Maryland. In more serious cases, offenders may be subject to imprisonment, with sentences ranging from 10 days in Idaho to six years in Tennessee"

Wow Maryland. Excessive much? Not a penny is collected by the officer.

In your fourth argument you said: "I dunno about you, but where I live (a very very safe environment) officers continually arrest people for petty charges."
'A very very safe environment.'

I wonder why.

Now my argument
So many deaths. A stabbing? Wow. Worst of all? This doesn't count the officers that are assassinated.
http://www.odmp.org...

Yes we need some reform, but look at us. One of the safest countries on the planet. (I wonder if aliens are on Mars... joking)
Emperor_Edward

Con

Hello and i thank you for reading and refuting my arguments and i find them very impressive. Now I shall begin with my argument:
1) Our police force is no doubt corrupt and I don't mean the average corrupt, I mean REALLY corrupt and it has shown in many instances in the past few years and even today where officers use racial injustice as an excuse to shoot black people. They have also hired officers who had previous records of drug abuse (the female cop I had mentioned). Police corruption is major problem in the United States, where some police officers turn bad to make money from drug deals, or career advancement, while many more try to cover up their own acts of brutality, murder and torture. Such is the case in the city of New Orleans, just this week five former police officers were sentenced to prison for the shooting of six unarmed civilians, two of whom died, in the days after Hurricane Katrina back in 2005, about 20 officers staged a cover up and many were excused. I can also mention another two dozen where many have been fatally killed or wounded by police brutality.
2) One of the most corrupt police departments is the Chicago PD. This city was home to Joseph Miedzianowski who has been labeled by many as one of the most corrupt policemen in history. He was both a police officer and a drug lord. He was in charge of the Chicago gang unit. At the same time he ran his own drug gang which would shakedown rival gangs based on his knowledge through the Chicago Police Department. He did this for 22 straight years before justice caught up with him in 2001.
3) America is not the safest country in the world with the best police (that honor goes to Iceland and Austria). Our police forces, as I have said, are corrupt and have an itchy trigger finger. There have been many cases where the officers pulled the trigger when the civilians were innocent and doing the thing the officers wanted them to do SLOWLY. I will cite an exerpt from the Iceland Police on a report: "Iceland police shot first time in 2013, on a man in the history of this country. The man first injured two police officers with his shotgun. National Police Commissioner instantly apologized to the man"s family publically." Showing that the Iceland Police are definetely skilled and did not have an itchy trigger finger and DID NOT shoot innocent people for no reason.
Once again thank you and if I seemed too harsh please forgive my rashness.
Debate Round No. 2
Midnight_Wind

Pro

Don't worry, you didn't seem harsh.
1.) Again, there are some bad cops, but what job doesn't? The Dallas assassinations for instance. Those officers could have just run from the sniper, Micah Johnson, but instead they moved to protect the crowd, Black Lives Matter protesters. (#BlueLivesMatterToo) The police tried to negotiate with him, but the sniper replied, and I quote,'"he was upset about Black Lives Matter," Chief Brown said. "He said he was upset about the recent police shootings. The suspect said he was upset at white people. The suspect stated he wanted to kill white people, especially white officers."' (http://www.nytimes.com... )
What do you mean by corrupt? There are multiple definitions.
2.) Again, I said that there ARE SOME BAD COPS. But not all. That also was not a rebuttal or argument, You gave an example of ONE corrupt cop.
3.) I never said it was the safest country. It is unfortunate that those men have died, and I will mourn for them. I will also mourn for the dead police.

You really have not given any rebuttals to my statements, nor have you given factual evidence. I do respect your argument!

Again about the deaths: http://www.breitbart.com...

America is supporting murder.

What have you become America?
Emperor_Edward

Con

Hello. Once a gain, truly thanks for accepting and continuing the debate. I'm sorry for not being online and not debating sooner as I had multiple exams to take and please forgive my tardiness.
1) There are bad cops as both you and I have said. In fact, so many that America is perhaps one of the most noticeable countries with the some of the worst policemen.I will list them at the end.
2) "One of the safest countries on the planet" (Pro). We are NOT one of the safest countries with the best law enforcement.
"http://www.gutenberg.us...
Debate Round No. 3
Midnight_Wind

Pro

No problem, my finals are coming up soon, too.
1.) I see. You need to remember that in order to keep themselves and others safe, police must sometimes use 'necessary force.' Nowadays criminals (thugs and other felons, not those who commit misdemeanors) call it 'police brutality' in order to get a lesser sentence.
2.) I understand your point. I will dismiss that statement, for I did not back it up with sources.

I apologize for what is coming, but after looking even deeper into this matter, my patience is almost gone. (Not your fault)
Keep in mind my last few comments are intended for those who are violent. People like you, who only wish for reform, are still respected.

My turn to seem harsh,

No more nice-girl

A 17-year-old high-school student from Alabama was almost beaten to death and the four who beat him were only charged with assault.

The kid has brain damage.

All he did was where a 'Blue Lives Matter' shirt.

He almost died
They should have gotten an attempted first-degree-murder charge.
They were older than 18. Adults according to law.
They attacked a MINOR!

And you say we don't need police.
Again I do not mean to insult you, but this proves that without guidance, we would begin to kill each other over opinions.

"A house divided against itself can not stand."
Emperor_Edward

Con

"And a house that is governed by the corrupt and ineffective will fall into disarray" Me, Myself and I.
Once again thank you for your comments and rebuttals. But once a gain, I will still stand by my argument and restate all my arguments just for the sake of it.
1) The police defend those in their ranks who commit blatant crimes and abuses of power. This has been shown in many prisons AND on duty such as the Charlotte Correctional Institute which ended up with the death of the inmate Matthew Walker and I will not insult your intelligence by listing the sources though I can say the evidence I got that from was an editorial that won the Pulitzer Prize.
2) When cops break the law, American"s expect the equal application of the law - cops need to be investigated and prosecuted just like everyone else. But American police break the law as a matter of routine for no reason, or for any reason at all, just going about their jobs on a daily basis. It"s crazy that someone can kill a random person, or shoot someone"s Grandma (even if that person is a drug dealer), and not get fired and go to jail. No civilian could ever say "but I was really scared" and get away with it. They"d get laughed out of court. But police get away with things like this all the time. Most Americans think the police should be held to a higher standard than the civilian population, not a lower one. Police should be exemplars of polite, decent behavior and pillars of civil society. They should follow all the laws (including traffic laws) except for dire emergencies in which they absolutely must break them. Not flash their way through intersections when there"s traffic, or park in a red zone when their getting lunch at McDonald's.
3) They complain about how dangerous their job is, as if its supposed to be safe. American"s get that being a cop is a difficult and dangerous job. That"s why we give them special cars, batons, guns, body armor, and all sorts of special privileges to do their jobs. They don"t also get to be immune from the laws everyone else has to follow. If you"re not willing to take some risks, don"t be a cop. There are plenty of jobs where you don"t have to take those risks (but of course those jobs don"t come with guns and sirens). Though being a cop also isn"t nearly as dangerous as they claim. Jobs that are more dangerous include loggers, roofers, truck drivers, and living in Chicago. Plus most cops who die on the job die in car accidents. Because they weren"t wearing seat belts. My dad, uncle and mom were all in the police department, believe me.
4) They destroy the lives of those in their ranks who DO try to call out the bad apples. They get them fired, and they lose their pensions. Here"s what happens when a cop intervenes with during a violent incident and tries to report a fellow officer for being a violent thug. Stories like that make it seem like they don"t really care about dealing with their institutional issues.
5) The police fight all attempts to monitor their behavior and check their power. They think they should have unfettered ability to do whatever it takes (legal or not) to do their jobs. The douchey (don't know if that's even a word) guy who is the head of the NYPD patrolman"s union is especially good at this. Seems to think cops are all perfect and need no oversight, especially by civilian government, city council members, tax payers, or pretty much anyone who isn"t a cop. Maybe he"s right and we don't understand what its like to be a cop. But no one ever understands exactly what it's like to do a job they"ve never done. But the fact of the matter is that in this country, cops work for civilians, and they have to fit their jobs around our rules and not the other way around.
6) They whine like kids whenever they are criticized. They act as if they believe they should be free from criticism, and civilian oversight. They seem incapable of having a civilized discussion about how to fix these problems. And they threaten to stop doing their jobs if they don"t get their way. If police in America were as outraged about abuses of power and crimes committed in their own ranks as they are when people riot and protest against them, we wouldn"t have riots in Baltimore. So to Pat Lynch and cops who don"t want to hear their nationwide employment performance reviews, don"t forget that you (cops) work for us (civilians). Your cops need to follow our rules, and we don"t want cops to be able to do what ever they feel like. We want them to treat us with respect.
7) Police always like to say "a bad apple doesn"t make a bad bunch", but they never throw out the rotten bastard criminal apples. Instead, they keep them around, and often promote them, allowing the rot to spread and multiply. Like the officer who beat up a 4 year old. And to most American"s, that does make them a bad bunch.
8) Etc.
http://thefreethoughtproject.com...
https://newsone.com...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
http://www.alternet.org...
https://consortiumnews.com...
ETC.
Debate Round No. 4
Midnight_Wind

Pro

Closing statements:

This was a fun debate! I believe I may have gotten off topic at the end, but I stand by my arguments. You have valid points, and so do I. Unfortunately I had began to doze off before your post. *sweatdrop* I respect your arguments, and I hope you respect mine. To me, the police can only be as kind as the ones they protect. I will not justify the cops who have broken their oath to protect us, but I will defend those who keep their oath with my life. Just as they have, and continue, to do for me.

Thank you for this interesting debate, Emperor_Edward.

May the Force be with you,

Midnight_Wind
Emperor_Edward

Con

Thank you too
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Midnight_Wind 1 year ago
Midnight_Wind
I would also like to know your (the viewers) opinions!
Posted by Midnight_Wind 1 year ago
Midnight_Wind
Ouch! Grammar mistake! Sorry about that!
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