The Instigator
Brian123456
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
funDiscussions1901
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

[League Of Legends] Mid laner Faker Of SKT T1 is the best mid laner (Global)

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/3/2014 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,162 times Debate No: 64512
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

Brian123456

Pro

Acceptance first, the rest of the rounds will be arguments.
funDiscussions1901

Con

I accept and will be your oponent
Debate Round No. 1
Brian123456

Pro

As for this debate, I will be trying to prove that Faker is in fact one of the best mid laner world wide. However, before I begin, I would like to provide a definition of what ¨The best Mid laner¨ actually means.

The best mid laner: To be able to overcome a variety of aspects against most players in the mid lane

Mechanics
Faker's mechanics are known to be godlike by many professional analysis (lol.gamepedia.com/Faker)
One of Faker's most known play was the Zed vs Zed ryu against KT bullets, during OGN (www.youtube.com/watch?v=0suIFAAClvg)
On this play Faker was obviously below 31% of health and Ryu was well at least 90% of health when Faker initiated the duel, and Faker left the duel with the victory and only lost around 20% of health, when both players had pratically all the same items (BoRK) but only Faker had QSS, which I may add that Faker had to play well to get that fed.

Champion Pool
Faker's champion pool is beyond what any other mid laner has ever possessed, as during the season 3 world Faker was able to bring a meta of Riven mid, and Zilean mid and more, plus many LCS/OGN commentors have even stated that Faker's champion pool is very large (http://de.wikipedia.org...) while compared to the likes of Dade, Dade is known to have a low champion, who is best for his Yasuo, good with Zed, and needs skills with skillshot champions, but with the exception of Ziggs and Orianna (Correct me if I'm wrong)

Statistics
Faker has also has won as personal rewards, MVP of the OGN Champions Summer 2013, Best KDA of OGN Champions Summe 2013 plus MVP and best KDA mid lane of The OGN Champions Winter 2013.

(Made this short because I just wanted to list points, so con can argue upon)
funDiscussions1901

Con

An issue that you bring up immediately would be that your claim in the title was that faker is the best mid laner in the world. Not just one of the best, but the best. Overall I agree with your definition of a mid laner, but I feel as though it is somewhat closed. I would add on that a great mid laner should be able to work well with their team. On to the categories.

Mechanics/1v1

There is no doubt that you are right about Faker having great plays in 2013. However, the year 2014 has shown Faker to have become faulty as SSW Pawn was able to out duel faker many times in one set(https://www.youtube.com...). Faker at one point seemed to be getting desperate and wasted a flash to try to kill pawn.

Champion Pool

There is not a doubt that faker has a huge champion pool. Is that necessarily good though? To look at it this year, Faker seemed to have gone quantity over quality as when pawn and Faker"s talon are compared, Faker most of the time lost with talon(https://www.youtube.com... the previous link had faker playing talon). Even though pawn and dade might not have high champion pools, they seem to do better with the champions that they have at their hand. I believe you are correct about Dade"s esceptions.

Stats

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn"t the trend usually for League of Legends to give the most awards to the best players team who win the world finals? SKT won in 2013 with faker having clutch plays. Same went to CJ Blaze whose team won 2012.

Synergy

Faker has good team fights when his team is able to set up well around him. However when in lane, it is clear that bengi and him do not work well in professional league compared to pawn and dandi or insec and Corn/ryu.

Overall, Faker is still a great player. Considering him to be the best at mid lane though would be saying that he beats everyone at most or all of the categories. 2013 was a prime year for him, in the current season though, he has not shown as well.
Debate Round No. 2
Brian123456

Pro

¨I would add on that a great mid laner should be able to work well with their team. On to the categories.¨

Con has now stated that a great mid laner should also be able to utilize with their team, while I do admit this sense of teamwork in a great mid laner. However if Con agrees with this then obviously what Con stated about the 1v1 between Faker and PawN is fatal, because both PawN and Faker did not receive a proper gank that had affected on or the other during their laning phase (www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMLNVKPAHmY) and It's a fact that Kassadin has an incrediably weak laning phase like: Fizz, or Riven( in the mid lane) and more. While on the other hand, Talon has a much better laning phase against a Kassadin.


As for mechanics, I would like to say that there is a difference between mechanics and a matchup. Personally, mechanics is when a way a player plays a champion, when that champion is at their strong extent during a game. As for the 1v1 between Faker and PawN, that was merely a matchup between a Talon (PawN) and a Kassadin (Faker) which like I said PawN has the upper hand during laning phase and probably during mid or late game.


I do admit that Faker has gotten a little worse, since Season 3, but Michael Jordan is still considered the best because of his legacy in the NBA, and the only reason why he was still considered the best the NBA has ever seen, is all because no one has ever matched Michael Jordan's highlights in his history. The same thing goes with Faker, no one at the moment has matched Faker's superiorness of season and even now no one has surpassed Faker.
funDiscussions1901

Con

"However if Con agrees with this then obviously what Con stated about the 1v1 between Faker and PawN is fatal, because both PawN and Faker did not receive a proper gank that had affected on or the other during their laning phase (www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMLNVKPAHmY) and It's a fact that Kassadin has an incrediably weak laning phase like: Fizz, or Riven( in the mid lane) and more. While on the other hand, Talon has a much better laning phase against a Kassadin."

The video you linked was all about 1v1 as there was not a gank in the video. The video before had examples of ganks and counter ganks where pawn was jayce while talon was faker. During the second example of the ganks, bengi and faker clearly had pawn, but due to a lack of communication, bengi accidently kicked pawn away which gave pawn the clear advantage. For the first gank attempt, Pawn did not have much help from dandy while faker went in what seemed to be too soon and almost got soloed by pawn.

As for talon vs kassadin, at the 5 or 6 second mark, you could see faker having his minion wave pushed up. Since kassadin is bad early game, wouldn"t it have been more logical to either freeze the wave or let it be pushed for protection of tower? It seemed as though faker was over extended on the kassadin.

For the NBA comparison, I would say that a game like league of legends does not continue to have legends like a sport would (even if this is considered a sport). Maknoon and pray used to be considered the best top laner and adc, but now those positions are passed down to whomever seems to have the best stats of the year. Faker was ahead of his time in 2013, but now he has fallen behind or is on equal grounds.
Debate Round No. 3
Brian123456

Pro

¨The video you linked was all about 1v1 as there was not a gank in the video. The video before had examples of ganks and counter ganks where pawn was jayce while talon was faker. During the second example of the ganks, bengi and faker clearly had pawn, but due to a lack of communication, bengi accidently kicked pawn away which gave pawn the clear advantage. For the first gank attempt, Pawn did not have much help from dandy while faker went in what seemed to be too soon and almost got soloed by pawn.

As for talon vs kassadin, at the 5 or 6 second mark, you could see faker having his minion wave pushed up. Since kassadin is bad early game, wouldn"t it have been more logical to either freeze the wave or let it be pushed for protection of tower? It seemed as though faker was over extended on the kassadin.

For the NBA comparison, I would say that a game like league of legends does not continue to have legends like a sport would (even if this is considered a sport). Maknoon and pray used to be considered the best top laner and adc, but now those positions are passed down to whomever seems to have the best stats of the year. Faker was ahead of his time in 2013, but now he has fallen behind or is on equal grounds.¨

Yes, Con is right, Faker in the video I provided only lost 1 time to PawN sololy, while the others were from the help of Dandy. or Bengi just not doing good. Con has said previously that Teamwork is also an aspect of a great mid laner, and obviously the video of Faker vs PawN consisted of ganks from both sides, but Con must admit that Dandy's ganks were more effective than Bengi's. Which brings me to my next point, in this video the Zilean (Faker) vs Yasuo (PawN) obviusly on that flash play by Faker with Zilean, Faker mis calculated his damage and seemed extremely frustrated a few times, when he lost to PawN.

With an interview with PawN, PawN stated that he didn't feel pressured during games because he knows if he loses his team will carry the game, while on the other hand, SKT TI has fallen as a team ever since Poomandu left and came back which I say completely messed up the SKT's roster and team chemistry and the meta has shifted heavily away from Faker and many assassin players, and Faker seems to still be doing good at the moment, in which he has to carry the team with pressure.

To back my point further, during the season 3 world, Faker never was seen frustrated even after being semi-soloy taken down, which we can safely assumed that he also was relieved of his team be able to carry if he lost.
funDiscussions1901

Con

funDiscussions1901 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Brian123456

Pro

To back my points further,

Anxiety can cause major or minor headaches, and can easily disturb the senses. (http://www.calmclinic.com...) Because of this very fact, we can safely assume knowing you have to carry a team during a game, can create anxiety and thus cause headaches and lost of focus during game. A reference could be when a player in League Of Legends feels anxiety when playing Solo Q because he/she doesn't know who their going up against or what kind of team they'll get or thinking about what happens if they do bad during the Solo Q. So Faker = Must win lane phase to carry, PawN = Don't have to win lane phase to win.

As for Faker's mechancs, mechanics personally is a person's skill capability on a champion, when that champion is at it's full extent in power, or skill capability as a player and simply knowing what to do next. Therefore, I believe Faker's mechanics are at least top 10 globally.

As for Faker's champion pool, again Faker is probably regarded as the player who has the most largest champion in lcs/ogn, according to many lcs/ogn anaylist. ex. Brought riven to mid, and Zilean.

And as for any other points I've I stand my points.
funDiscussions1901

Con

I apologize for my forfeit one round. Any who, I will admit that dandy had a better approach to ganks. Even so, faker should have 1). Expected the counter gank from dandy with map awareness. 2). Known they would lose the fight if they engaged and should have instead retreated. Onto your second point, frustration is a key thing to learn how to handle. The flash with zilean was a miscalculation indeed. This is a big hole in Faker himself as a player. If he gets a great start, he will keep going with the lead and be fine. However, if he starts losing, he seems to panic and get frustrated and will waste summoners. During the 2nd match between ssb and ssw worlds, pawn had bad start by getting destroyed during a level 1 raid. However, Pawn saw the fatal mistake of ssb trying to take dragon and got a double kill which put him back in the lead.
To your second point with the interview, it was indeed stated that pawn was not the best on his team and could rely on his teammates to carry. However there would still have to be pressure on him to do flawless like the rest of his team so that the other team would not be fed and such. His personality is relaxed while faker is a little more alert. If faker freaks out when he dies, then he is not entrusting his team to do well. A good mid laner would not have the feeling of carrying the game and instead would entrust his team to do well. Blaming his frustration on his teammates is never well dignified as the chemistry becomes worse and would make ganks harder to pull off.
Your 3rd point has some flaws as well. During season 4, most of the champions played were assassins. Kha zix for example was most likely the most played jungler in the world tournament. Fizz was played by pawn a lot who is considered an assassin. If you include Jayce"s new blue build assassin along with talon, then you have some of the best assassins in the game being played in the mid lane. This would then support my statement that faker"s champion pool is vast, but is not vast quality wise. I agree with faker having outstanding mechanics (it is what made him known), but new mid laners such as rookie, dade, and pawn have shown to match mechanics. In conclusion, faker was the best in 2013, but now is trailing behind other mid laners, which in definition, does not make him the best mid laner.
Thank you for the debate
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Zaradi 2 years ago
Zaradi
Are we talking about in KR? Current Mid laners? Of all time?
No votes have been placed for this debate.