The Instigator
Philosopher_King
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Ragnar
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

Leave the Toilet Lid Up

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Ragnar
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/20/2013 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,161 times Debate No: 34940
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (3)

 

Philosopher_King

Pro

Why do men have to put the toilet seat down? This means we have to lift it up, do our business and then put it down: two actions. Gals come in go abouts their business and don"t have to do anything no lid up or down " nothing! Does seem fair? If I lift up and she puts down that is equal effort. Things should be fair and balanced.
Ragnar

Con

Gross.

Men should put it down, because without a great amount of creative effort there is no way to close the lid prior to flushing, while leaving the seat up. "Scientists from the Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust found that leaving the lavatory lid up when you flush the toilet causes a cloud of bacteria to explode into the air and settle on nearby surfaces" [1]. You don't by chance leave your uncovered toothbrush in there with the lid up do you?

I'm not going to suggest the lengths to address the problem shown on South Park [2], but seriously, this is common sense. Both men and women should close the lid before flushing. Equal time is taken for both sides.

Sources:
[1] http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...
[2] http://www.southparkstudios.com...
Debate Round No. 1
Philosopher_King

Pro

I think you are conflating the issue a bit:

"The professor said that although it was unlikely that keeping the lid up would be a 'huge' health hazard, their findings suggested patients with a superbug should at least have a dedicated toilet."
Ok, if you have a super bug fine.
Bottom line is wash your hands and keep your bathroom clean. I think this whole lid thing gives people a false sense of cleanliness. It is a hold over from the old times when there were out houses.

It is common sense?

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." Albert Einstein

How old are you :)

Sources
http://rescomp.stanford.edu...
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk...-
Ragnar

Con

Thank you for suggesting I have conflated the issues under question. I do like to to solve two problems with a single action (or kill two birds with one stone, as the saying goes).

The resolution deals directly with toilet lids, not seats. I have provided the clear reason of sanitation for putting it down. It need not be any "'huge' health hazard," to wish the bathroom not be sprayed with fecal matter bacteria; granted if someone is ill the importance increases [1]. The wisdom of my source stands (for an example of how to properly refute a source, see Albert Einstein below).

"It is a hold over from the old times when there were out houses."
A very nice fallacious Appeal To Novelty (to say something must be better for being newer) [3]. The importance then was greater due to noticeable smell (like porta potties now), yet the issue of sanitation has not been properly refuted.

Further I have countered the side argument about fairness, with a logical solution that both men and women should close the toilet lid causing equal effort to be taken.

"Albert Einstein"
A great Appeal To False Authority [3], doubly so since it allowed the introduction of a .edu site as a source. For refuting it...
  1. Albert Einstein was a brilliant physicist, without whom he might never have had the atomic bomb. He was not a mechanical engineer with anything to say about toilets. Thus he's useless as a source.
  2. From the source we learn that "I'm afraid I can't vouch for [the quotes] authenticity, tell you where it came from, who compiled the list, who Kevin Harris is, or anything like that." Thus authorship of the quote falls not to Einstein, but the author of the webpage Stuart Cheshire; a guy who is good at programming computers. Also not an authority on toilets.
"Read More"
Done, and pro's second source clearly supports my side. "'It is very clear from our work that the lid is there for a reason,' Professor Wilcox told Mail Online. '...we found that the toilet could spray up to 50 droplets per flush.'" How many people really want that much extra piss or fecel matter (mixed with water) spread around their home?

I stand by my assertion that it is common sense to close the toilet, as the very design has a lid for a reason. If this is too much trouble, you have the middle ground option of buying a seat without a lid; or even scrapping the seat and lid entirely within your own home (either utterly side stepping the "leave the toilet lid up" resolution).

Sources:
[3] http://www.informationisbeautiful.net... (Novelty is seventh down on the left, Authority is second down on the left)
Debate Round No. 2
Philosopher_King

Pro

Now that I have done some research, due to your argument, I think I am turning into a germaphobe. My argument had nothing to do with sanitation. I had assumed that water being sucked down could not somehow shoot up. If your source is correct...

Now I see there are no lids in public washrooms. Forget men vs women stuff.

This means that there is upspray from how many users during one day? What about a hockey game/rock concert? Ah.... this is not good. Why is the public not made aware that they are grabbing handles, toilet paper itself that is 'compromised'. This is grossing me out.

I think this has led to a new debate: public washrooms have to have toilet lids and shouldn't won't flush or the stall door won't open unless the lid is down etc.
Ragnar

Con

Noting the number of conceeded points, I'm assuming that was a concession (voters, that means I suggest argument for me, but conduct for him... If you do not accept it as such, measure the argument as you normally would). Often there are waterspots on the seats of public toilets from it spitting some of the water back up, not that many people actively piss on the toilet seat and leave it there.

Thanks for the debate. Having served as a combat medic, I know far too much about germs... I do like your end idea, and think that could make an interesting debate.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
This turned out to be a double edged sword. I just had to spend most of a day in an airport...
Posted by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
He's not a True Man (Scotsman fallacy), unless he can aim so well that there is no splash.
Posted by Wallstreetatheist 3 years ago
Wallstreetatheist
If a man is any good with his tallywacker, he'll be able to keep the seat clean while peeing standing up. LIKE A MAN.
Posted by clover4me 3 years ago
clover4me
I think guys should have to do it. Girls may not have to deal with the seat but if there is a lid we do. Plus we have to deal with more when using the bathroom. So just be a gentleman and put down the darn lid.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by johnlubba 3 years ago
johnlubba
Philosopher_KingRagnarTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro ended up agreeing with Con. Con literately turned Pro into a germaphobe. And me. lol
Vote Placed by MassiveDump 3 years ago
MassiveDump
Philosopher_KingRagnarTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro conceeded. LOL @ Resolution
Vote Placed by silvertechfilms 3 years ago
silvertechfilms
Philosopher_KingRagnarTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Lol.