The Instigator
sllewuy
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Danielle
Con (against)
Winning
28 Points

Lebron is a better player than Kobe

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Danielle
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/8/2009 Category: Sports
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,222 times Debate No: 9160
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (4)

 

sllewuy

Pro

oOo i just realized this part of the box was for round one HAHA stupid me.

I think LeBron James is better player than Kobe Bryant because he is just outstanding their is nothing he cannot do on the court. He has amazing size and speed and he has taken on the role of leading his team quite well. Lebron is the hardest working NBA player playing with the cards he is dealt and not complaining to the media about his situations. Lebron James constantly makes his team and he makes everyone around him better.

Offensively and Defensively Lebron just excells in both categories. This kid is only about 26 years old and hes already accomplished so much at a much faster rate than Kobe did in his career. Kobe might have scored more than Lebron in his career but Lebron James is a superior rebounder, passer, and shot blocker. He is just the total package and what he has done with the Cavailiers bringing them as far as they did in the playoffs with the support system he has.

Mo Williams was not a all star till he got teamed up with Lebron James. Kobe Bryant has more championships then Lebron James but Kobe also has 7 more years than Lebron. 4 Championship rings and 3 of them were with the most dominant player in the game when he was in his prime Shaquille O Neal. Lebron James has not been so lucky and is forced to work at a super human pace every game.

Lebron James is not given good all stars he has to create them which is more than what I could say for Kobe. Who failed to show off his abilities when only having Lamar Odom, Caron Butler and Chucky Atkins in his first year being the leader and this streak of mediocrity in the playoffs lasted for 3 years, including being one of the first 8 teams to blow a 3-1 playoff lead. Kobe only started succeeding when he threatened to turn his back on the Lakers until they supplied him with a all star.

Take Lebron off of the Cavaliers and playoffs are impossible to reach. Take Kobe off of the Lakers they still have a strong support system stacked with good players. Pau Gasol himself is a leader leading the grizzles to playoff appearances before same goes for Lamar Odom when he was a Heat and Ron Artest. Mo Williams is the 2nd best option on that Cavaliers team and the rest of the team is full of question marks. A team that has to be lead by Mo Williams is a losing team.

LeBron James is the obviously a better player than Kobe
Danielle

Con

PRO'S ARGUMENTS:

1) He has amazing size and speed
2) He has taken on a leadership role for his team
3) LeBron is a better player at 26 than Kobe was
4) LeBron is a superior rebounder, passer and shot blocker
5) Kobe's success is mostly due to his teammates

REBUTTAL:

1) Kobe has great size (two inches shy of LeBron) and speed as well. This is a moot point. Additionally, size and speed are not always the most important factors in determining one's abilities as a basketball player. For instance, Kobe is more agile than LeBron, and probably a better mental player as well (composure, etc.).

2) Kobe is also a highly regarded (and more experienced leader). Another moot point.

3) Just because LeBron may have been "better" at 26 than Kobe was (which is entirely subjective unless my opponent explains how or why using facts, statistics and other analysis) does not mean that LeBron is yet AS GOOD of a player than Kobe Bryant is NOW. The resolution says nothing about Kobe's past; it's of the present tense meaning that this debate is about who is a better player right now. That said, it should be noted that LeBron is actually just 24 years old. When Kobe was 24, he had just as many offensive rebounds as LeBron did at 24 (106), higher free throw percentage (.843 vs. .780), steals (181 vs. 137), etc. [1]

4) Kobe Bryant is a generally a Shooting Guard, and LeBron James is usually a Small Forward. Of course James is going to have more opportunities to rebound, etc. As I've already pointed out, Kobe is notably better at some things than LeBron (I will have more on this in my offensive arguments).

5) Finally, Kobe's success as an individual player - meaning his statistics - can NOT solely be attributed to that of his teammate's. On that same token, some of his individual success CAN be attributed to that of his teammates. For instance, if he's notably the best shooter on the team, the team is going to put the ball on his hands more often or look to him for scoring in the crunch. The same goes for LeBron. Thus one's team can both help or hurt individual statistics, so we'll have to look for the issue of teammates capabilities as a draw. As far as championships and titles go, I never intended on using Kobe's rings as a means to describe his abilities anyway.

MY ARGUMENTS:

1) Crunch Time

Say you're down by a point or two, and the time on the clock is running down. Any coach would prefer to put the ball in Kobe's hands over LeBron's. The experience factor would ensure that Kobe wouldn't get rattled, panic, lose track of the clock, let an ounce of doubt enter his psyche, or chicken out and pass the ball off to an inferior player as LeBron has done in the past. Additionally, Bryant has the resourcefulness and athletic ability to create his own shot. Many sportscasters name Kobe as the best tough-shot shooter in the game. Ever. This is probably because Kobe has proven that he can score in every way imaginable. LeBron doesn't even have a consistent midrange game yet, and his 3-point range remains shaky, at best. Getting him to give up the ball isn't even all that hard because he'd rather make the pass than the shot. Not only is Kobe a better pure scorer, but he's also the significantly better foul shooter. Thus, it's pretty obvious that Kobe is a better clutch player and therefore a lot more valuable in crunch time than LeBron.

2) Toughness

LeBron missed two weeks worth of games with a sprained knuckle on his non-shooting hand, while Kobe didn't miss a minute with shoulder and groin injuries. Kobe's willingness to play through tough injuries proves his commitment and dedication to his teammates, and his strength both mental and physical. He has proven to be a more agile player all-around.

3) Ruthlessness

LeBron James said it best (when interviewed by the ESPN magazine): He doesn't have that instinct to go out and (metaphorically) kill everyone the way Kobe does. If Kobe smelled blood he'd want to dig deeper into the wound; in other words, play up his advantages and use his opponent's weakness as a platform for his success. LeBron, on the other hand, would want to get the person a bandage (again, metaphorically speaking). This would perhaps make LeBron more of a humanitarian than Kobe. However, on the basketball court, it's better to be smart about what moves would get you the win.

4) Experience / Guts

It's common knowledge that experience is a huge factor in one's abilities on the court, as it affects their confidence, decision making and general skill. Kobe obviously exceeds LeBron in these areas. While Kobe may have the reputation of being a selfish player, that doesn't necessarily make him a worse off player. After all, this is demonstrated by him getting his teammates to win several championships. Additionally - like I said - this debate is about individual performance. Kobe stands up in the face of adversity and challenges his opponents to the point where he is considered a "ruthless assassin" by some. LeBron may be the more pleasant of the two; however, currently lacks the drive that pushes Kobe to be the best (or perhaps second best, behind Tim Duncan) in the NBA. Kobe Bryant's playing resembles of that of Michael Jordan's, while LeBron's style can be said to resemble Magic's. I'd say Jordan is a better player than Magic as well.

CONCLUSION:

I agree with Ric Bucher from ESPN magazine when he says, "LeBron is bigger, faster and arguably stronger with every skill imaginable. But he doesn't have Kobe's fire or anything close to his ability to adjust at a moment's notice and general knowledge of the game." Kobe's experience, drive, work ethic, on-court leadership, decision making, crunch time abilities, agility, toughness, and overall accomplishments prove that he is a great player who only continues to improve. The same can be said about LeBron, and I agree that with time, LeBron will probably over-shadow Bryant and become a/the better player. However, the resolution implies present tense, and at this point I stand by the fact that Kobe Bryant is a better player (by a very small, but still there margin) than LeBron James.

PROOF OF KOBE'S REMARKABLE CAPABILITIES:

(Shown above in the YouTube video)

STATISTICS REFERENCES / SOURCES:

[1] http://www.basketball-reference.com...
[2] http://sports.espn.go.com...
Debate Round No. 1
sllewuy

Pro

sllewuy forfeited this round.
Danielle

Con

Unfortunately my opponent has forfeited the second round of debate. Please extend my arguments as they are to be considered facts until Pro challenges them. I'd ask that the readers please note that my opponent was online just a little while ago and therefore had ample opportunity to respond to my contentions. In choosing not to, he has presumably conceded to the fact that Kobe Bryant - at the time being - is a better basketball player than LeBron James (who will probably be better than Kobe at some point in the future). I wish good luck to my opponent in the final round of this debate.
Debate Round No. 2
sllewuy

Pro

Ok my final argument I apologize for the lack of a 2nd round but i did not realize how short i set the time. Ok i read my opponents cases and they are very very good. Thank you very much.

Ill start by point out how my opponent says since Lebron and Kobe plays different positions it gives Lebron a advantage to get more rebounds. Well i think that is not true on a basketball team usually u leave the dirty work of rebounding to your power forwards and centers. Lebron James leads his entire Cavaliers team in every single statistic. Just because they play different positions and different size is not an excuse for Kobe to not produce as much as James. Great players in the history of the NBA who were small were able to show that their size does not stop them from doing what is expected from other positions. Lets take Jason Kidd for example a man at the point guard position who could pull in 8 boards a night surpassing a lot of power forwards in the league.

If we are talking about the best TODAY. In single performances well how can anyone even make the comparison between the two. Kobe's advantages over Lebron James is that he is a better scorer. That is not a very strong case between the two since Lebron James is a excellent scorer himself. Well Lebron is the best today and he has the league MVP award to prove it. The man was also in the top 3 nominations for the defensive player of the year award.

Who is a better leader?
Lebron James is a better leader because Lebron James pushes his team and makes them better as players. Kobe Bryant obviously loses in this category because no good leader would openly tell the media that what he has around him is not enough and was unacceptable. Looking back at when Kobe urged the Lakers to get Jason Kidd and Kobe had it in him to actually say "Who is Andrew Bynum?" Kobe is a selfish player and a selfish team mate so in leadership you have to give Lebron the win over Kobe he has only spent his whole career playing with the cards he is dealt and not bribing the dealer. (threatening to leave his team)

Who is a better defender?
Lebron James is a better defender he can handle the big guys up front and still guard the perimeter. This year Lebron James has averaged 2 steals and 1 block a game. More than Kobe Bryant has.

Statistically speaking Lebron James is a better player than Kobe Bryant. Kobe is better in the clutch but if that was so how does Lebron James still win more games than Kobe Bryant? with a lot less superstars I might add. When thinking about the kind of player you want on your team you have to think about the best. I will add again Lebron James does Everything for the cavs. As Kenny and Charles Barkley has said in the magic series "I do not think anybody in this league can play the way Lebron has to play and for him to have to do it for 3 more games is just asking for too much."
Lebron always has the ball in his hands in some cases he even has to bring the ball from full court and work from there that is the entire cavailers playbook give the ball to LeBron. In the magic series it was said that during the 4th quarter of game 5 everybody on the cavailers team just stood there in one spot not even moving while Lebron did the entire offense a play called by Mike Brown. I cannot blame Mike Brown either there is nobody on the cavailiers team that is even close to being a person you can trust in the 4th quarter unlike the lakers who always has clutch players waiting like Fisher.

Lebron James is a better player today when you look at leadership, overall productiveness, and a person who would not give the team bad chemistry you have to look at Lebron James. He is the reigning MVP of the league who this season (today) got better stats in scoring, rebounding, assists, steals, field goal percentage and blocks than Kobe Bryant

I do not know how all of you judge the best player but I think when a man trumps another man is almost every category he has to be considered better than him.

Look at the stats
http://www.nba.com...
http://www.nba.com...
Danielle

Con

[ Re: Statistics and Positions ]

Pro pointed out that LeBron has more rebounds than Kobe, which I countered by saying that this is an obvious statistic since LeBron plays a forward position and Kobe is a guard (who leads his team in scoring and assists, as the role of the shooting guard tends to do). Pro agrees with me and says, "Well i think that is not true on a basketball team usually u leave the dirty work of rebounding to your power forwards and centers." He then says that this standard can't be applied to this debate, though, because James leads his team ALL-AROUND including in scoring, assists, etc. That can obviously be attributed though to the teammates around him; I think it's obvious that the Lakers are a better team than the Cavs, thus the Cavs can only survive if they have LeBron stepping up to lead the team in all of those areas.

[ Re: Awards ]

My opponent tries to bring up the fact that James currently holds the league's MVP award as a basis for his affirmation of the resolution. However, it can be argued that he was given the MVP award even though he isn't the actual best player in the league: a title which I would personally award to Tim Duncan. Anyway, if we're speaking in terms o awards, championship rings, etc., it is obvious that Kobe Bryant trumps James in all of these areas. James was given the award and deserved it; however, I don't think that because he's the most valuable to a franchise or a team necessarily means that he is the best player in the league.

[ Re: Leadership ]

Pro has said, "Lebron James is a better leader because Lebron James pushes his team and makes them better as players." While it's great that James excels in this area - and I believe is better at this than Kobe - his abilities to push his teammates doesn't say anything about his PERSONAL abilities. Like I said, if this debate were about who is the most valuable asset to a team in terms of their overall contributions, LeBron James would win this contest hands down. However, this debate is about their personal skills (as the resolution itself implies), i.e. who would win in a 1 on 1 match-up. Kobe's agility and finesse would give him the obvious win. Moreover, Pro has said, "Lebron always has the ball in his hands in some cases he even has to bring the ball from full court and work from there that is the entire cavailers playbook give the ball to LeBron." However, it is infamously known that LeBron James - in a big game - GAVE UP THE BALL and the chance to win to another way inferior player (Donyell Marshall), which completely blew it for his team. Kobe's confidence allows him to take charge - which implies leadership - and get the ultimate goal of victory accomplished. After all, this is about winning basketball games - not making your teammates feel good. Save that for the after party.

[ Re: Statistics ]

My opponent and I have both posted stats pages. Both of them indicate each player's respective strengths and weaknesses, and speak for themselves. Check em both out.

[ CONCLUSION ]

James will clearly outshine Kobe in seasons to come. However, Kobe's still got it. Regardless of his bad attitude or so-called selfishness, he's got the skills and abilities to back up his big talk and has proven that time and again with his many championships and success with the Lakers. Say what you want about his ethics; the truth is that in a match-up between the two players, Kobe would out-shine LeBron hands down. LeBron's size and rebounds would be meaningless because Kobe wouldn't miss a shot. He's the better offensive player and LeBron's defense couldn't touch him. Additionally, Kobe is a stellar defense player as well (it just tends to get overshadowed by his offensive star power). I think in this case, it's pretty clear who the better basketball PLAYER is... maybe not person, but definitely player.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by Andre3000 6 years ago
Andre3000
lets see if we can compare Kobe's seven years and Lebron's seven Years you got to admit Kobe was in a tougher era then Lebron and sure Kobe has the better teammates but you cannot say Lebron did not do it alone because Cleveland won over 60 games back to back season and lead their team to the finals in 2007 against the spurs even though they lost but you got understand not all people win it all from the start it takes time but Lebron did not want no more time in Cleveland and left to Miami now does i think it was the right thing no him just saying Kobe stayed and wait it out after Shaw left and gave him the result to win back to back championship without Shaq that what makes Kobe better then Lebron sure i can go for more facts but that will takes too long
Posted by Danielle 7 years ago
Danielle
Indeed I did lol here it is: http://www.debate.org...
Posted by lakers2010 7 years ago
lakers2010
Im pretty sure the Lwerd also argued on the other side of this in another debate, and he won that too, hes good lol
Posted by tribefan011 8 years ago
tribefan011
B/A: Pro
Conduct: Con. The debate was cordial, but Pro forfeited a round.
Spelling and grammar: Con.
Arguments: Con. LeBron is clearly better, but Pro's arguments weren't very convincing at all.
Sources: Con. Pro didn't effectively use his sources.
Posted by sllewuy 8 years ago
sllewuy
great debate i dont think i will win but it was fun LOL
Posted by Xer 8 years ago
Xer
I think Lebron is a better basketball player than Kobe. But, I think Kobe has more basketball skills if you know what I mean.

Basically, if Lebron and Kobe were the same size, it wouldn't even be close, Kobe would be absolutely dominant.

See here on why Lebron is better:
http://www.debate.org...
Posted by Danielle 8 years ago
Danielle
I agree. Kobe's got more finesse, but LeBron is an all-around better player... almost. Not yet : )
Posted by Narwal19 8 years ago
Narwal19
http://www.usatoday.com...

Lebron will kick Kobe's record after Kobe retires.
Posted by Narwal19 8 years ago
Narwal19
I'm living in LA so no duh I support Kobe.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by tribefan011 8 years ago
tribefan011
sllewuyDanielleTied
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Vote Placed by patsox834 8 years ago
patsox834
sllewuyDanielleTied
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Vote Placed by Vi_Veri 8 years ago
Vi_Veri
sllewuyDanielleTied
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Vote Placed by Danielle 8 years ago
Danielle
sllewuyDanielleTied
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