The Instigator
dhaase
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Kegan
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Lebron is better than Kobe

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/6/2011 Category: Sports
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,779 times Debate No: 15159
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (0)

 

dhaase

Pro

Lebron James is a better basketball player than Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bryant may have won 5 NBA championships, but that is because he was on good teams. If Lebron James and Kobe Bryant were to play 1 on 1, Lebron would win. Lebron, by himself can win his teams games. He did that in the eastern conference finals when he scored 19 straight points in the 4th quarter to win the game, when he wants to take over the game, there is hardly anyone that can stop him because of his physical attributes. Kobe on the other hand was not even the primary option on his team early in his career, Shaq was. Lebron has always been arguably the best player on every team he has played for, the same cant be said for Kobe.
Kegan

Con

I will start off this round by simply responding to, and refuting my opponent's arguments. Then making my own in the next round.

-My opponents first argument is that Kobe Bryant won the championships because he was on a better team, and that Lebron James would win if they were to play 1on1. The first problem with his argument is that it is merely a claim with no factual evidence to support it. There is no way to know whether or not this would happen. To respond to his argument that his championships were because he is on a good team, I would like to pint out that he IS part of this team, and when you see that he has also been MVP in TWO of these championships it shows how much he improves his team.

-My opponents point about how lebron scored 19 straight to win a game is impressive, bu is it as impressive as scoring 81 points in a single game? A feat that only one other player in history has ever passed? There is no way that Lebron has ever or will ever score 81 points in a game.
Debate Round No. 1
dhaase

Pro

So if you win two of five NBA finals MVP awards, it is better than having won less NBA MVP awards. According to the history of MVP awards won in the NBA, Lebron James has won 2 MVP awards in his first 8 seasons (1). Kobe Bryant has won one MVP award and that was in his 11th season. Kobe Bryant didn't win rookie of the year award, Lebron did. Also, when Kobe didn't have Shaq or Pau Gasol or Andrew Bynum Kobe didn't win one championship. He may have scored 81 one game but he didn't carry his team to the finals by himself. Lebron carried his team to the finals with very little talent on his team. Lebron has 29 career triple doubles in 8 years, Kobe only has 17 in 15 years (2). Kobe may be able to score at will but Lebron is a better all around player.

1)http://www.nba.com...
2)http://www.sportscity.com...
Kegan

Con

You're basing your argument of "all around" on the fact that Lebron has won more MVP award and has more triple doubles. You're trying to gauge the strength of a player based on his achievements. If you're saying a player amounts to what he has accomplished simply look at Kobe's achievements. Since his second year in the league, Bryant has started in every NBA All-Star Game that has been held with thirteen All-Star appearances, winning the All-Star MVP Award four times (2002, 2007, 2009, and 2011). He is a twelve-time member of the All-NBA team and ten-time All-Defensive team, and is the youngest player ever to receive defensive honors.

- To respond to your argument of "his team is good not him", Bryant currently ranks fourth and seventh on the league's post-season scoring and all-time scoring lists, respectively. He is also the all-time leading scorer in Laker's franchise history. So how is it that he LEADS his team in reg/post season scoring, yet his team wins the champ. for him?
Debate Round No. 2
dhaase

Pro

I'm sorry did Kobe win NBA Finals MVP the first 3 times he won an NBA championship? No i didnt think so, and i never said that his team wins championships for him, dont assume. All i said was he played with great talent around him, of course a Kobe's going to be ranked high in postseason scoring because he's played in so many. He has played in so many because his talent around him is phenominal.(1)When compared at age 25 You will see Lebron averaged more points in the playoffs, scored 4000 more points than Kobe did and also says this..."James has finished in the top 10 in MVP voting after all six of his seasons, having placed at No. 9,6,2,5,4 and 1. Bryant didn't show up in MVP voting until his 4th season, when he was 12th. He placed at No.9,5 and 3 in his 5th, 6th and 7th season." Hands down Lebron is the better player. He's presumably on pace to beat all Kobe's stats by Kobe's age.

1) http://www.cleveland.com...
Kegan

Con

I will open my case in the same way my opponent did.
I'M SORRY DID LEBRON WIN 5 CHAMPIONSHIPS, 4 ALL STAR MVP'S, 2 FINAL MVP'S, AND IS A 12 TIME MEMBER OF THE THE ALL NBA TEAM? You keep saying that Kobe is SURROUNDED by enormous talent, and you go on to say that Lebron puts up more numbers than Kobe. It is OBVIOUSLY because Lebron has nobody onhis team to score any of the points, whereas Kobe is only VERY VERY slightly behind him in numbers with 20x the accomplishments Lebron has. The fact of the matter is that athletes are gauged on their performance during the playoffs, and Lebron has done nothing but CHOKE.

This resolution states Lebron is BETTER than Kobe, without mentioning athletic skill specifically. So when you argue this you do not gauge everything based on athleticism. The truth is Kobe has IMMENSELY more accomplishments than Lebron, and because an athlete is judged on his achievements, Kobe is better than Lebron.

CITES
http://www.nba.com...
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by stubsmagee 5 years ago
stubsmagee
http://nickandmikeradio.blogspot.com... says a lot about the nba
Posted by cwalke3408 5 years ago
cwalke3408
let me settle this debate they both suck and never be on MJ level
Posted by pacmanwiley10 5 years ago
pacmanwiley10
Lebron is better because Kobe don't have the inside game like Lebron
Posted by Deistdude90 5 years ago
Deistdude90
@dhaase--- then you shouldn't have compared career vs. career and Con showed you that. You should've narrowed it down to this current season or a season by season basis.

What evidence is there for the best players (pantheon level) are the ones that win the playoffs? This is a sport dude. Everyone who cares plays to win. Some make it, some don't and it's tragic when they don't. But the goal is still a championship, therefore players that lead their teams to a championship(s) achieve that greatness, that's why we talk about Michael and not Dominique, Bird and not George Gervin, Magic and not Stockton (all the former being in the pantheon--top 12 of all-time). If LeBron were to be "better" than Kobe, he would have to be in that pantheon,which he is not (at the very least, not yet). It's not neurosurgery. Kobe has already led a team to championships (even if you don't count his Shaq years as you probably don't). Also, Kobe wasn't deaf, dumb, and blind when he played with Shaq. He may have been Shaq's sidekick, but it's not like Shaq was 90% of the reason why the team won.

Also, when did I make the comparison of Pippen to Shaq? Loserboi made the claim that Kobe needed an all-star to get past the first round as if that's not normal, and my point was that even the Greatest of All-Time couldn't do that so why subject Kobe to that criteria? LeBron is clearly exceptional in that regard, but that alone doesn't leapfrog him over a 5x champion.

Basically, you should've narrowed down the resolution. When you brought in stats from different seasons and mentioned Shaq, you made it a career vs. career debate and clearly LeBron is at a disadvantage.
Posted by dhaase 5 years ago
dhaase
Plus, of course Kobe's going to have more accomplishments than Lebron hes played nearly double the amount of time Lebron has
Posted by dhaase 5 years ago
dhaase
Kobe had Shaq are you going to tell me Pippen is just as good as shaq? Also, where is there any evidence that says the best players are the ones that win in the playoffs.
Posted by Deistdude90 5 years ago
Deistdude90
"Kobe never carried a team past the 2nd round of the playoffs without another all-star."

Neither did Jordan. Are you willing to say Kobe>MJ based on that fact alone? Of course not. Hell, MJ didn't even carry a team past the first round without another all-star (and he only made it to the playoffs on losing records without Pippen), so this "who carries their team better" isn't much of an indicator of who's better. You wouldn't tell me Moses Malone or Dominque Wilkins are "better" than Kareem or MJ simply because they had less to work with right?

It's a tough criteria, but to be the best (in that "pantheon" of greatness as Bill Simmons calls it), you have to be a champion (and don't come out with the robert horry argument, when we're comparing greats that are nearly evenly matched, championships are that divider). Kobe's in the pantheon already for me (I have him ranked top 10), but LeBron has yet to prove he's a champion and now he has a strong shot. I'm going to go with certainity on this one. Kobe is a proven champion and a strong closer (not the best, MJ and Bird keep that). LeBron has yet to prove he's a champion. I'm not saying he can't do it, but legacy vs. legacy right now, Kobe wins.

Since Pro used LeBron's career to compare it to Kobe's career, the leverage goes to Con (Kobe has accomplished much more than LeBron). Pro should have argued something to the effect of "this season" or "in both players 7 seasons, LeBron was better."
Posted by Loserboi 5 years ago
Loserboi
"The fact of the matter is that athletes are gauged on their performance during the playoffs, and Lebron has done nothing but CHOKE."

Kobe blew a 3-1 lead over the suns in the playoffs, how is that not chocking? Kobe never carried a team past the 2nd round of the playoffs without another all star.
Posted by Kegan 5 years ago
Kegan
Rest of the cites (not enough room)
http://sports.espn.go.com...
http://www.nba.com...

I would also like to ask the voters to exclude the citation/evidence in my opponents 3rd round since it is from the Cleveland website, and therefore may be Influenced by reason other than a factual basis.
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