The Instigator
Qadincest101
Pro (for)
Tied
1 Points
The Contender
Ozzyhead
Con (against)
Tied
1 Points

Legalize consensual incest in all Countries around the world

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/3/2014 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,025 times Debate No: 48216
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (14)
Votes (1)

 

Qadincest101

Pro

putting procreation aside,every two or more consenting adults in their respective jurisdictions,meaning they are legally adult to consent to sexual activity,have the total right to marry each other officially,have sex with each other ,and if,after complete and detailed health tests,proved to be completely healthy and free of hereditary and genetically conduct illnesses and diseases;that they be granted the right to have children of their own and that these children would legally be recognized as their children and that they can officially and legally proclaim themselves as their parents,whenever necessary ,in front of any public or private institution,office,agency,etc and in front of all people and anywhere in the world. Some examples of legal ages for sexual relation around the world: USA between 16 and 18,most of Europe 16,France 15,Spain 14,most of Latin America 14 or 15,Brazil 15,Peru 14,Cuba 12?; Denmark 14,Japan 12,Australia 16,Lebanon 18(must be lowered to 15-16),Netheirlands 16,Sweden 15,Turkey 18,etc
Ozzyhead

Con

I feared doing so, but I am accepting this debate simply because it should never leave this point! Thank goodness for internet where people can post their ideas, and strangers and friends alike can easily and peacefully shut them down. I do accept. Now, I noticed in the comments that you said that homosexuality was legalized and that contrary to what people believed it did not cause children to become gay themselves, however, homosexuality is not a choice. The partner you choose is, but the choice to like people of your own gender is not (though that is a separate debate, if you disagree with it not being a choice, do not say so because I will no longer use that as a part of my debate). But, as people have said, a father can nurture his daughter in to choosing himself as a partner. It is well known that a lot of times, a partner someone chooses comes from their own ideas of what a good partner is, and that is partly assisted by the child's upbringing. Children can be brought up so that they are only attached sexually to a parent or an older sibling. Though it is illegal, these things have happened already. Getting people tested in order for them to have offspring is wrong, too, especially if you grant them the right to do so. Having children is a natural right, not a right given to us by the government. By the way, anything that is given to us, but can be taken away, is a privilege, not a right. A right cannot be taken away, other wise it's called a privilege. I personally believe that the Bill of Rights should be the Bill of Privileges, because if you get arrested, you lose them, and although you deserve to lose them if you do something wrong, having them taken away means they are not rights, but that was a short rant unrelated to this really. A parent or older sibling can also force themselves on to the younger ones and teach them that that is how life goes, and the child will accept it until someone teaches them other wise.
Debate Round No. 1
Qadincest101

Pro

Putting procreation aside,every two or more consenting adults in their respective jurisdictions,meaning they are legally adult to consent to sexual activity,have the total right to marry each other officially,have sex with each other ,and if,after complete and detailed health tests,proved to be completely healthy and free of hereditary and genetically conduct illnesses and diseases;that they be granted the right to have children of their own and that these children would legally be recognized as their children and that they can officially and legally proclaim themselves as their parents,whenever necessary ,in front of any public or private institution,office,agency,etc and in front of all people and anywhere in the world. Some examples of legal ages for sexual relation around the world: USA between 16 and 18,most of Europe 16,France 15,Spain 14,most of Latin America 14 or 15,Brazil 15,Peru 14,Cuba 12?; Denmark 14,Japan 12,Australia 16,Lebanon 18(must be lowered to 15-16),Netherlands 16,Sweden 15,Turkey 18,etc
Ozzyhead

Con

There seems to be that you have done across an error. I will not argue this round. Next round
Debate Round No. 2
Qadincest101

Pro

1/ It is better to talk about taking down the incest taboo socially,in places where it's legal as an adult to have sex with whoever adult or adults you want,like in France,Russia. Netherlands,Italy,Turkey,Spain......Or in jurisdictions where it's not anymore legally penalized as in New Jersey. 2/ in places where incest is lightly penalized,sanctions on consenting adults should be banned like in some US States. 3/ in jurisdictions where the sanctions are very severe,from 15 years to life detention,as in North and South Carolina,Illinois,Texas,Ohio.....Australia(most States),United Kingdom,Ireland..... Penalties should be relatively reduced,as a first step. 4/ in order to prevent deviations like rape,or intercourse with minors, in their respective jurisdictions,many countries around the world have mild to severe penalties,and cases like that are considered as any child assault,child rape and statutory rape. For instance,France since 2010 put penalties on incest sex with minors under 15 wich is the legal age for sexual consent out there;the Netherlands raised the age of consent for incestuous relationships from 16 wich is the general age of sexual consent there to 18. 5/ if sex between human beings is really meant at first for procreation(it isn't anymore anyway) sex outside legal and official marriages should be unlawful and even severely penalized and even socially band anywhere in the world. 6/ if incest marriage must be forbidden and even sanctioned because it could probably result in birth defects more than sexual relations between total strangers,so must marriages for people having hereditary and genetic diseases be forbidden,unless they are permitted marriage but not procreation,wich could perfectly be a solution for incestuous couples and or families. But in order not to prohibit people from their right to have children from their blood and flesh,they should like I said in the first round, undergo medical laboratory tests,whether they are blood related,regardless of the degree,or not at all. I know that in my country,Lebanon,in the Middle East where as in the majority of the states of the world and about the half of the USA,marriage between first degree cousins is very legal(the son or the daughter of a paternal or maternal uncle or aunt)

Couples must undergo medical tests to prove being free of diseases,before marrying,that are conducted by heredity and or genetics. This is applied in Brazil,Aborigean tribes in Australia,orthodox Jews and other minorities in Rode Island,for uncle-niece and aunt-

nephew marriages; the same in Sweden for half brother and sister marriage wich can legally and officially take place after soecial permission
Special permission by the Government and of course medical tests. 7/ homosexual couples or groups,gays and lesbians,cannot procreate,so I don't see the slightest problem here. 8/ Finally I don't see any problem if children are raised to believe that incest feelings and or relations are very natural,because parents have the right to raise their children according to their moral values,ethics,social,political and religious beliefs;taking in consideration as I already said that sexual assaults and rapes against minors,whatever is the age of sexual consent in a given jurisdiction,are being severely sanctioned .
Ozzyhead

Con

Again, towards your comment about testing to grant the right to have a child is taking away someone's natural rights. No one should ever be denied by the law, only by nature, to have an offspring. And to your statement about it being the right of parents to raise their kids to their moral standards should be limited. Children can be raised to be slaves, and that it's okay to beat someone just for not listening. No child should be raised to think it's okay to beat a woman or child just to assert their authority. That is asinine. Please understand that I am not trying make negative comments toward you, I just do not condone the actions of people to raise children in their hateful ways. It has been proven that racism is learned, not natural, and people raise their kids to be racist. This is not okay. People raise their children to be sexist, and that is not okay. Being intolerant of someone's sexual orientation is not okay. If someone was being in an incest relationship, I would not be intolerant of them, I would just disagree with their ways. In fact, there was a couple in England that fell in love at first sight. They dated, and planned to get married. It turned out that they were fraternal twins separated at birth, and they somehow found each other not knowing they were twins. Incest was illegal, but there was an exception, and I personally find it an exception as well. But in a household, people can have the idea forced against them. It's not okay, it is not natural, and forcing anyone to do anything period is wrong. Either that's the case, or I grew up in a bad household where my parents did not force me to believe anything, and I turned out to be a great harmless person. But lets not trail off. If you can find naturally consenting, no force, no being raised in to the situation, and no testing, because denying someone the natural right to have a child is a horrible thing to do, then maybe, just maybe, you will get my vote. But, because of the way the world is, I am not going to vote for that side. I don't care what other countries do, or what some states do, I don't care how whoever punishes it, and even though I am extremely liberal, and I do not want any government in anyway interfering with someone's harmless to others happiness, I have to say this is morally wrong, especially giving the modern circumstances.
Debate Round No. 3
Qadincest101

Pro

It seems we're talking in different waves,I want this debate to be worldwide as it could,and I showed that in my previous argument by giving different example of how laws address the incest issue. But it is obvious you don't want that and you care only about the place you live with I understood is an US State with clear laws against incest(what State please?). I know it's difficult to speak in a federal country of changing the laws on the federal level in affairs usually related to the domain of the States as it's concerning marriage laws,incest,capital penalty,homosexual rights and marriage,legalizing marijwana as recently in Washington, D.C. And Colorado. Let's get back to the arguments: I didn't say at all that I want to prevent people from their right to have an offspring,all I said is to impose on them to do tests,as it's in the Christian churches in my country(Lebanon) as a formality among others in the process of the marriage conclusion,but in the end it is the privilege of only the couples to decide whether yes or no they would marry each other even if any of them or the two have serious medical and health conditions. Inbreeding whether it's with immediate ascendants like parents and immediate descendants like children or with cousins only increases the risks of birth defects to about 7% in rare cases as an average,in brother-sister first,then parent-sibling,finally cousins,etc. This is all just in theory,no single study did prove any direct or even indirect correlation between inbreeding and birth defects,the famous case in 2009 I think of an incestuous real biological father and daughter couple in Australia who had a healthy daughter and another one with health problems,but it wasn't proved medically that's due to incest sex,the same for the famous brother-sister couple from Germany in 2007 who had two healthy kids and other two with some health problems. Anyway,most of the conducted studies tend to prove that if theoretically incest and cousin couples give supposedly their bad genes to their offsprings,they also supposedly give them their good ones,like in the case of two intelligent brother and sister and this would continue across generations as in Ashkenazi Jews who are said to have a very high IQ. So,many times the good genes overflow the bad ones,and sometimes the exact opposite,but this is not always obvious in the first generation of offsprings,usually it begins to appear after many generations. But since many people are convinced that inbreeding have nefast consequences on the babies born out of it,many incestuous couples make love together each day and or night,but decide not to have offsprings. As for homosexual couples,I don't see any problem other than it's a moral issue for most people because it's incest,and for some others because it's also homosexual; I'm sure one can find incestuous people against homosexuality. Many societies and cultures across history have been based on incestuous marriages between complete and or half brothers and sisters and between mothers and sons and fathers and daughters like in pharaonic Egypt who at a certain period stopped or lowered this practice,not because of birth defects,but to make political,social and economic agreements wit other empires like the Hittites,so the pharaons would marry their princesses in this only objective,they married also Phoenician and Mitannian princesses in the same purpose. Incest and inbreeding were also practiced in Roman Egypt,Zoroastrian Persia((Iran),and among many many royal families across the world as it was in Europe for instance. Parents don't need to endoctrinate directly their children any idea,belief and thought,all they have to do is that from a certain age,9,13 or other ,it's their decision,they can permit them access to incest stories and magazines that the parents already have at home,and the internet is here to the rest or most of the job,even if the parents doesn't want that at all. From my own experience,I lived among an anti Christianity father and a believing somehow practicing mother and did my studies in catholic schools and at least from the age of nine I have New Testament bible,went to church somehow regularly until for years ago when I almost completely stopped,and I live in a country where the political,juridical,administrative and military authorities are divided between the Christian and Muslim religious communities,and where every one of these communities have its own laws and regulations concerning personal status. I wanted to say,in comparison of supposedly incest families and societies,nothing of all cited made me a good catholic Christian who believe that extra marital and incest sex are sinful . Finally there are plenty of real stories of girls who has been introduced to incest sex by their fathers from the age of 12 and sometimes much before,and now they are in their thirties and forties happily married in a "normal",not necessarily incestuos,happy family with their husbands and children;it's the same thing exactly for brothers and sisters,full or half,who shared a sexual experience together,whether complete or not,for many long years. It took me researches on the internet from 2010 or even before: articles,blogs,forums,debates to arrive to these conclusions.
Ozzyhead

Con

I am sorry but I have nothing more to say about this debate. If you assume this to be a forfeit than fine but I just do not wish to continue this debate. I wish my opponent well and I am waiting to see if my opponent will convince the rest of the world, and prove me wrong.
Debate Round No. 4
Qadincest101

Pro

Biology was never behind the almost universal incest taboo ,until modern times in the occidental world especially. Incest can be and was also attached to social structure and organization like, forbidding step parents marrying their stepchildren and the same for step siblings between each other,also men and women from the same clan. Maybe I could understand the organizational purpose behind this,and that family should be composed from a father,a mother and children,but let me ask everybody: what about having only 2 fathers or 2 mothers,I mean being reared among an homosexual couple,for example? Doesn't this also disorganize the social structure and especially family,that if family only means:2 parents,male and female from one side,and children from the other. Anyway,these reasons have not any foundation when children leave the household,and no biological aspect which I find,like I already said, only little more probable than in non blood related couples,and non existing in cases of step relatives: parents with their adult children,and adult children together;so why forbid those people from loving and even marrying each other,after many years of not living as a family anymore,this argument becomes more accurate when people aren't at all blood related,or with very distant biological liaisons. I must mention that first cousins marriages are legal in the Middle and Near East,Europe and in many states inside the USA,and was socially and legally accepted in all these places 100 years ago,still is it the case,even lesser than in the past,in Middle and Near East. Also,for example in Islam,marrying a step child isn't considered incest at all,but it isn't socially accepted in Muslim countries or in countries where the majority of the population is Muslim, nowadays. Recently,some biologists in USA have argued that first cousin marriages are more fertile than non blood related ones and that the risks of birth defects in the first ones isn't much more than in the second ones,and I found this to be somehow true. Finally in times where people can use,if they only want,many different kinds,of natural as from ancient times,and artificial kinds of contraception,and if we are to always believe the biological reasons behind the American panic from incest. N.B: search for the article"Go ahead cousins,kiss each other!"
Ozzyhead

Con

Ozzyhead forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Qadincest101 3 years ago
Qadincest101
I take my time to comment,and what: an error occurred ! And everything I wrote is lost.
Posted by Qadincest101 3 years ago
Qadincest101
Hi,weird things happening
Posted by Hematite12 3 years ago
Hematite12
@Quadincest101

First, your comparison is horribly flawed.

Legalizing homosexuality doesn't make people more gay... it just makes them able to practice it openly.

Legalizing incest DOES encourage incest. As has already been said, there would be a massive amount of fathers who would indoctrinate their daughters to think its normal.

Secondly, the incest would be "consensual" when the daughter reached the age where they can decide for themselves whether they want to do that or not. But it would not truly be consensual, because consensual is only a thing when you are talking about people who did not have the power to indoctrinate the other. The father would manipulate their daughter, whereas two unrelated people who decide to have sex did not have that power over each other.

Thirdly, your reference to France is irrelevant. You don't have any data that says that incest did not rise after its legalization. If you had that data, the reference would be more valid, but as it is now, I think it's extremely probable that incestuous relations would become more frequent after their legalization.

At best, you could argue that cousin to cousin incest should be allowed.
Posted by theJackster 3 years ago
theJackster
@quadincest101, I would ask myself this; does the accepted values of a society have any influential impact on the personal development of the children living in that society and if so, shouldn't those values reflect and influence behavior conducive to promoting strong family values?
Posted by TheShadowCupcake 3 years ago
TheShadowCupcake
Put your argument into one sentence before the argument and another sentence after. It helps drive across your point a lot and makes it more arguable so that it's not simply ignored.
Posted by Qadincest101 3 years ago
Qadincest101
All these comments make me think: is legalizing homosexual relationships and marriages made or will make most people become gays and lesbians,it didn't,look at European countries who legalized homosexuality. The Same for incest; the majority of European countries don't punish adult incest anymore if it's between consenting "adults",LA the same thing,even some like Netherlands are places for incest like minded people from around the world to meet or live; did this non sanction or and permissivity resulted in the majority of People in these countries having sex with theireir parents or siblings? not at all. In fact some countries,France in Particular,have lifted ban on adult consensual incest since Napoleon Bonaparte,and still most French people are against incest,even between consenting adults(15+ there) Finally,in the majority of the countries and the continents around the world,even in LA,it's very legal to marry your first cousin:son or daughter of your paternal or maternal uncle or aunt,regardless the fact that in Europe and even in some middle and near eastern states and societies,it isn't practiced at all anymore or rarely(Western Europe) or and very much less than 100 years ago,like for example in Lebanon,Turkey and Syria.
Posted by Dennybug 3 years ago
Dennybug
When looking at it from a perspective without morals this seems like it's justified, however in the end you would still most likely have a psychologically fucked up family with Kids thinking that they should be together instead of people out side of their direct family. Since mommy and daddy are brothers and sisters.

Furthermore this would almost definitely develop into Fathers having Sex with their daughters. which would completely mess up childrens normal healthy views on love and relationships. and their future relationships also.
Posted by TheShadowCupcake 3 years ago
TheShadowCupcake
Well, the likelihood of a genetic mess resulting from incest is exaggerated, but still higher than two genetically contrasting people. The possibility can be predicted by a geneticist. However, by opening the door to this in society, people would eventually begin to ignore the reasoning and the chances with the offspring in the sake of "love."

Furthermore, this would crush the functionality of the current family system even further.
Posted by T5seconds 3 years ago
T5seconds
When you take everything "moral" out of it, as I'm assuming you don't find that to be a relevant viewpoint, then you still are leaving a psychologically crippled family behind, not to mention a polluted gene pool. I would accept it if you actually made a bit of sense in your first argument.
Posted by Pitbull15 3 years ago
Pitbull15
Dafuq did I just read...
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Actionsspeak 3 years ago
Actionsspeak
Qadincest101OzzyheadTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:11 
Reasons for voting decision: Terrible grammar by pro, forfeit by con and arguments were terrible, subjective, and had no sources.