The Instigator
Stupidape
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
stschiffman
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Legalize dog fighting in USA.

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/6/2016 Category: Society
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 292 times Debate No: 94495
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

Stupidape

Pro

We should legalize dog fighting in the USA. I think we should legalize dog fighting to discourage the black market. Despite being illegal, dog fighting is a booming business. [0] Just as we have lost the war on drugs and prohibition we have lost the war on dog fighting.

I care for animals and I think this is the best way to increase their quality of life. By legalizing dog fighting we can have guidelines on what is going too far and what is tolerable. We could use the proceeds to help other animals in need and the environment.

This is tax money that is being thrown down the toilet trying to enforce a non-enforceable crime. I think dog fighting is immoral, yet we can't let our good intentions cloud our judgement. Many people think adult bookstores are immoral, Lust, yet they are legal.

This article here states why we shouldn't abolish meat, and I think we can extrapolate the same is true for dog fighting. [1] Simply put, but using the state and making dog fighting illegal, we are causing more suffering and pain to dogs. The complete opposite of what most animal advocates are attempting.

I conclude anyone with an interest in animal welfare must endorse the legalization of dog fighting. Thank you for the debate.


Sources.
0. http://www.cnn.com...
1. https://medium.com...
stschiffman

Con

Forcing dogs to fight each other to the death is simply immoral and unethical. Pro says that by legalizing it we could have general guidelines to ensure safety, but when it comes to dog fighting, that would be almost impossible. Even in boxing, when it's just two humans with padded gloves, accidents still abound (not that I want to ban boxing, I'm simply making a point); imagine what the carnage would be if boxers fought with sharp teeth and claws; insuring safety would take an act of God.

Pro compares this to prohibition, and to the drug war, but this is not a very good equivalency. Men like Al Capone and Pablo Escobar became rich off drugs/alcohol, and created huge crime waves. I do not think that keeping dog fighting illegal has created the massive gang violence and mass incarcerations that the war on drugs and prohibition did.

There is no real justification for why this should be legal; it's one thing to kill an animal to eat, but a whole different matter to force animals to fight to the death for your amusement.
Debate Round No. 1
Stupidape

Pro

Rebuttal


Opponent's argument in bold and italics mine in plain text.


" Forcing dogs to fight each other to the death is simply immoral and unethical. Pro says that by legalizing it we could have general guidelines to ensure safety, but when it comes to dog fighting, that would be almost impossible. Even in boxing, when it's just two humans with padded gloves, accidents still abound (not that I want to ban boxing, I'm simply making a point); imagine what the carnage would be if boxers fought with sharp teeth and claws; insuring safety would take an act of God." stschiffman

Yes, we both agree dog fighting is immoral and unethical. Yet, I do not see this is grounds to keep dog fighting illegal.

"Pro says that by legalizing it we could have general guidelines to ensure safety, but when it comes to dog fighting, that would be almost impossible." stschiffman

That is not what I said, this is a straw man argument made by my opponent. Here's what I said instead.


"By legalizing dog fighting we can have guidelines on what is going too far and what is tolerable. " Stupidape


For example, we could limit steroids use in dog fighting, use pain killers, and if necessary have a professional vet ready with a lethal injection. Yes, dogs are injected with steroids when forced to fight. No, dog fighting by its very nature is not supposed to safe for the dogs. [2]

"Pro compares this to prohibition, and to the drug war, but this is not a very good equivalency. Men like Al Capone and Pablo Escobar became rich off drugs/alcohol, and created huge crime waves. I do not think that keeping dog fighting illegal has created the massive gang violence and mass incarcerations that the war on drugs and prohibition did." stschiffman


I think comparing dog fighting to prohibition and the drug wars is an excellent example. Dog fighting is considered organized crime. [3][4]

"There is no real justification for why this should be legal; it's one thing to kill an animal to eat, but a whole different matter to force animals to fight to the death for your amusement." stschiffman

No, there really is not much of a difference. We do not need to eat meat to survive there are countless scientific studies showing this fact. Not only that but a vegetarian diet is healthier than an omnivore diet. [5][6][7] As seen in these links, there is amble scientific evidence to show that eating meat is not only unnecessary but healthy.


"It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes." [7]


There are differences between raising an animal for meat in factory farmed conditions and dog fighting, but the differences are minimal. The suffering and pain involved in factory farming is similar, maybe even worse, and both are luxuries. We do not need to eat meat from factory farms nor participate in dog fighting to survive. There is no survival benefit from eating meat nor dog fighting. Of course they are extraordinary circumstances, trapped on a desert island.

Impact, I've negated my opponent's claim that dog fighting is vastly different than eating meat. Thanks for debating, I look forward to your response.

Sources
2. http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
3. https://www.change.org...
4. http://www.wdel.com...
5. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
6. http://ajcn.nutrition.org...
7. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
stschiffman

Con

Even with your proposed safety guidelines, that would still not change the fact that those animals would get mutilated, and there is no valid reason to mutilate an animal just for your own entertainment.

And , as I said earlier, just because both drugs and dog fighting occur on the black market does not make them equal. The drug war has lead to billions in profit for the cartels, mass incarcerations, hundreds of police and civilian deaths, and billions of wasted tax dollars, all for plants; outlawing dog fighting has done none of that. As a whole, I'm pretty libertarian; for the most part, I believe in people making their own choices, but not when those choices lead to dead dogs.

Pro said that there is not much of a difference between killing for eating and killing for sport, but there is. Eating is a necessity, entertainment is not.

Thanks for debating. I also look forward to your next response.
Debate Round No. 2
Stupidape

Pro

"Even with your proposed safety guidelines, that would still not change the fact that those animals would get mutilated, and there is no valid reason to mutilate an animal just for your own entertainment." stschiffman


Agreed, but I don't see how this helps your case for keeping dog fighting illegal.


"And , as I said earlier, just because both drugs and dog fighting occur on the black market does not make them equal. The drug war has lead to billions in profit for the cartels, mass incarcerations, hundreds of police and civilian deaths, and billions of wasted tax dollars, all for plants; outlawing dog fighting has done none of that. As a whole, I'm pretty libertarian; for the most part, I believe in people making their own choices, but not when those choices lead to dead dogs." stschiffman


You are correct in that the scale is different. Yet, there is still police wasting resources and tax dollar chasing after dog fighters when they could be using those resources to catch other criminals. By legalizing dog fighting we would have more resources to fight other more serious criminals. We would destroy the organized crime around backyard dog fighting. Finally, you have provided no evidence that legalizing dog fighting would increase the number of fights. Even if this does, it would be offset by limiting steroid use.


"Pro said that there is not much of a difference between killing for eating and killing for sport, but there is. Eating is a necessity, entertainment is not."


Eating is a necessity, eating meat is not. Therefore, eating meat is entertainment. I've proven this last round.

Thanks for the debate.
stschiffman

Con

"Agreed, but I don't see how this (my previous argument) helps your case for keeping dog fighting illegal."
Because if something can result in that much harm to an animal just for entertainment value, it should not be legal. All laws are based on what's wrong and what's right, and dog fighting is most definitely wrong.

"There is still police wasting resources and tax dollar chasing after dog fighters when they could be using those resources to catch other criminals. By legalizing dog fighting we would have more resources to fight other more serious criminals. We would destroy the organized crime around backyard dog fighting. "
Yeah, but if you fight dogs to the death just for sport, you deserve to be in prison. You could just as easily argue that we should legalize mugging to keep all muggers out of prison. For the most part, I agree with statements like the one I quoted from you; for example, I believe we should legalize pot and gambling, among other things, to stop the black market for them (as I said earlier, I'm very libertarian). But forcing dogs to fight is where I draw the line.

"Eating is a necessity, eating meat is not. Therefore, eating meat is entertainment. I've proven this last round."
There is a huge difference between eating meat and killing animals for sport. Even God gives us permission to eat meat. Genesis 9:3 (according to the NKJ translation) "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs."

Thanks for the debate. This has been very fun.

By the way, I've been wondering this the whole time; how did you make the parts of my text that you quoted black and italicized? Can you comment how you did it, because I'd really like to know for future debates?
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by stschiffman 9 months ago
stschiffman
@Stpidape Thank you!
Posted by Stupidape 9 months ago
Stupidape
"By the way, I've been wondering this the whole time; how did you make the parts of my text that you quoted black and italicized? Can you comment how you did it, because I'd really like to know for future debates?"

Go to rich text, and then scroll up should be the B and I icons.
Posted by Amedexyius 9 months ago
Amedexyius
@stschiffman It's alright, I wasn't planning on acceptance.
Posted by stschiffman 9 months ago
stschiffman
@Amedexyius I'm sorry if you planned on accepting this. I didn't see your comment before I accepted.
Posted by Amedexyius 9 months ago
Amedexyius
I despise animal cruelty, I'm really tempted to take on this debate.
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