The Instigator
HelpMeWhenIFall
Con (against)
Losing
12 Points
The Contender
Geekis_Khan
Pro (for)
Winning
25 Points

Legalized Abortion

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/25/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,853 times Debate No: 3801
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (16)
Votes (11)

 

HelpMeWhenIFall

Con

Abortion has been called a "Human Tragedy" and should NOT be legal. By the time an average female decides that she wants to abort, she is atleast 3 months along. By this time, the baby has it's fingernails, beginning to have it's heartbeat and can feel every pain that is included in an abortion. Children are the leaders of our future and we should appreciate them by allowing them to live.
Geekis_Khan

Pro

Well, thank you for the challenge. I wasn't expecting it.

I will be arguing this from the standpoint that abortion should be legal. By the resolution, there are no other burdens that I have to prove.

Now, my opponent first claims that the average female decides to abort around three months, and around this time the fetus has developed fingernails, has a heartbeat and can feel pain.

Well, if this is a problem, then abortion can still be legal. Let's just make the cut off date for where you can get an abortion earlier than three months.

But even if you don't accept that, my opponent's argument is not enough to vote PRO. Having fingernails is not enough to grant you a right to life. And as for feeling pain from the abortion, while I admit it seems bad that a fetus is undergoing this pain during an abortion, they'd feel more pain if they were actually born. There is nothing more painful than life. Saying that we should make abortion illegal because a fetus can feel pain is illogical, because it is inevitable for every living human to feel pain.

My opponent's other argument is, "Children are the leaders of our future and we should appreciate them by allowing them to live."

Well, most people who have abortions are from demographics that tend not to produce world leaders. Of course, there are exceptions; this I do not deny. But since we can make no perfect prediction as top whether a fetus could eventually be an asset to society or a burden on society, neither side can really use what the fetus could eventually be as an argument.

As for the appreciation for allowing them to live argument, my opponent has not given any reason why the fetus is more important than a woman. Shouldn't we be appreciating the people who are already members of our society first?

Now I'll give you some reasons why abortion should remain legal:

1.) Rape victims. If abortion is illegal, then a rape victim who becomes pregnant has no option but to carry a fetus in a situation that she has no control over.

2.) Young people make mistakes. Yeah, it is irresponsible for a young woman to have unsafe sex. But I'm not willing to tell her that she has to make serious changes to her life plans just because she made a mistake and didn't use a condom.

3.) If abortion is made illegal, then back-alley abortions will run rampant. You can't stop people from getting an abortion. If it's illegal, they'll do it themselves, and it will be done in extremely unsafe ways. Keeping abortion legal keeps abortion safe.

4.) We have more of an obligation to those who are already a member of our society than those who are not. Since a woman is a member of the social contract whereas a fetus is not, we have an obligation to uphold her right to autonomy over a fetus' supposed right to life.
Debate Round No. 1
HelpMeWhenIFall

Con

HelpMeWhenIFall forfeited this round.
Geekis_Khan

Pro

I extend all of my arguments and remind the voters to vote for the better debater, not which side you happen to agree with personally.
Debate Round No. 2
HelpMeWhenIFall

Con

I would like to apologize for my absence and continue my argument.

I would also like to thank my opponent for accepting my challenge and granting me his patience.

Now, my opponent has stated that abortion should be legal because, "young people make mistakes. Yeah, it is irresponsible for a young woman to have unsafe sex.". He's also stated that he is not going to tell her that she has to make serious changes to her life plans just because she made a mistake and didn't use a condom.

My argument is simple: If the young woman and her partner have decided to become sexually active, then they should be willing to bear the consequences of their actions. If the parents cannot support the child, there are different alternatives such as: a foster home, adoption, or the child could live with family members until the parents are able to financially, emotionally and physically support it.

He has also argued that if abortion is made illegal that back-alley abortions will run rampant.

If this is the case, the mother should understand that this choice that she has just made can also cost her her life. The woman should be smart enough to be able to predict the outcome of her actions.

Next, my opponent argues, "we have more of an obligation to those who are already a member of our society than those who are not.".

Well then, isn't an unborn fetus a member of society also? The fetus has had unalienable rights ever since it was conceived. These children should not be denied the right of life. We werent denied the right to live. No one should.
Geekis_Khan

Pro

First, I'd like to point out that my opponent ignored all of the attacks on her case, so I extend all of my arugments against it.

She also ignored the point about rape victims. Since making abortion illegal would make it illegal for rape victims as well, you can negate this resolution based on that. I'll even expand the argument to include cases whre the mother's health and/or life is at risk. Making abortion illegal makes it illegal for these women, too.

Now I'll refute my opponent's attacks on my case.

1.) She says that would-be parents should be willing to accept the consequences of their actions. I admit that they should be more careful, but this is a life-changing thing because of one mistake. Surely we can afford these girls a second chance.

She also brings up alternatives to abortion. But we are debating abortion, not other options. The existene of alternatives does not change whether or not abortion is right or wrong. You can idnore this part of her argument, as it does not actually prove why abortion in and of itself should be illegal.

2.) On back-alley abortions, she says:

"If this is the case, the mother should understand that this choice that she has just made can also cost her her life. The woman should be smart enough to be able to predict the outcome of her actions."

Yeah. She should be aware. That doesn't change the fact that back-alley abortions will rise dramatically, and we simply don't want that to happen. You're avoiding the point here. You're basically arguing that it's fine for them to perform these back-alley abortions as long as they realize the health risks. These back-alley abortions are not something that we want, regardless of how aware the would-be mother is of health consequences.

3.) "Well then, isn't an unborn fetus a member of society also? The fetus has had unalienable rights ever since it was conceived. These children should not be denied the right of life. We werent denied the right to live. No one should."

No. An unborn fetus is not a member of soceity. In fact, the Fourteenth Amendment reads: "Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

You aren't a citizen, and thus not a member of the US society unless you are BORN in the US. Being unborn makes it impossible for you to be a citzien.

An unborn fetus is not a member of society. You have not given any proof for this claim at all.
Debate Round No. 3
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Issa 8 years ago
Issa
I think the reason most guys are in favor of abortion is because they see it as any easy way out. Not too long ago I was late and my boyfriend told me that if I was pregnant to get an abortion because he wasn't going to be raising any kids. As long as they don't have to deal with a kid they don't care about the consequences.

Also I am pro-life but Geekis_Kahn clearly had the better debate.
Posted by Ineffablesquirrel 8 years ago
Ineffablesquirrel
I am a Pro-Choice female.

[Oh, the reason Orrs_girl voted for your debate has nothing to do with the quality of your debate, but rather because she "can't vote for something" she doesn't approve of, as she mentioned below. This simply means she's too bias to vote for the better quality debate.]
Posted by Geekis_Khan 8 years ago
Geekis_Khan
And don't be a sexist:

A.) There arre plenty of pro-life men.

B.) There are pelnty of pro-choice women.

C.) There's nothing irresponsible about having a different opinion than you.
Posted by Geekis_Khan 8 years ago
Geekis_Khan
Oh, I know it's not a matter of you not caring about them. But not answering them means that they flow through unattacked.
Posted by HelpMeWhenIFall 8 years ago
HelpMeWhenIFall
I'd just like to point out that even if I didn't acknowledge the woman's health issue doesn't mean I don't care about it.

This is only a debate guys.

Not a life changing situation.

I would like to thank Orrs Girl for understanding all my points.

It's sad that only women see a problem with abortion and men don't.

Does this show irresponsibility?
Posted by Ineffablesquirrel 8 years ago
Ineffablesquirrel
Geekis_Khan did a FAR better job debating, whether you agree with his side of the debate or not. G_K, thanks for a proper debate.
Posted by Geekis_Khan 8 years ago
Geekis_Khan
You're right. Like where she dropped my first contention and didn't respond to any of the attacks I put on her case. You're right.
Posted by Orrs_Girl 8 years ago
Orrs_Girl
okay well i believe her debate was better! :)
Posted by Geekis_Khan 8 years ago
Geekis_Khan
I don't care who you cote for, as long as you can jsutify that it was the actual better debater.

Problem with the topic of abortion, everyone is so biased that people seldom do vote for the better debater, and instead vote for the side that they agree with, even if the other side completely drpped a contention.
Posted by Orrs_Girl 8 years ago
Orrs_Girl
okay here's a lil sumin for you hun!!! i voted AGAINST you... deal! :) have a nice day!
11 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Ineffablesquirrel 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by HelpMeWhenIFall 8 years ago
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