The Instigator
Brian123456
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
DarthVitiosus
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Lelouch Vi Britannia is dead at the end of Code geass

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/1/2014 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,676 times Debate No: 62490
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

Brian123456

Pro

FIrst round is acceptance from Con, to go against the statement that Lelouch Vi Britannia is dead at the end of Code geass.
DarthVitiosus

Con

I accept this challenge. As Con I only need to negate the resolution. It is Pro's job to provide the burden of proof that Lelouch Vi Britannia is dead at the end of Code Geass. I will await my opponent's arguments.
Debate Round No. 1
Brian123456

Pro

Brian123456 forfeited this round.
DarthVitiosus

Con

Lelouch is not dead for the following two reasons. I will refrain from going into details until the next round and present an opening argument.

1. The Japanese version showed Lelouch being alive.

The fact that the Japanese version had Lelouch being alive intially cannot be argued against. They removed the scene because they wanted the viewers to imagine what happened.

2. At the end of Code Geass, CC is asking someone a question and she says"right Lelouch."

This is highly suggestive that Lelouch is alive.
Debate Round No. 2
Brian123456

Pro

"Lelouch is not dead for the following two reasons. I will refrain from going into details until the next round and present an opening argument.

1. The Japanese version showed Lelouch being alive.

The fact that the Japanese version had Lelouch being alive intially cannot be argued against. They removed the scene because they wanted the viewers to imagine what happened.

2. At the end of Code Geass, CC is asking someone a question and she says"right Lelouch."

This is highly suggestive that Lelouch is alive."

The Japanese version never showed Lelouch being alive, if con is speaking about the scene at the end with the carriage ride. (Assuming the Japanese version is what I think it is) If Con goes to any anime site with the last episode of Code geass R2, (with anime sub, which is a Japanese version) the carriage rider's face is never revealed.

At the end when C2 is asking someone a question and says "right Lelouch" is simply a misunderstanding. As you can see in the scene C2 is looking up in the sky, and many characters in other animes or movies tend to look up to the sky to represent the character that's dead, being in Heaven living in peace.

Regardless of the youtube's video claiming as the original Japanese ending, anyone can make a fake video and name the title as an original.

I also want to raise the argument, how could Lelouch have survived after clearly being stabbed in the heart and staggered while he spoke to Nunally and clearly he closed his eyes at the very end of his last words. This event cannot be denied and is a mere fact, so I ask con to argue against this point.
DarthVitiosus

Con

I would like to thank my opponent for replying.

1."The Japanese version never showed Lelouch being alive, if con is speaking about the scene at the end with the carriage ride. (Assuming the Japanese version is what I think it is) If Con goes to any anime site with the last episode of Code geass R2, (with anime sub, which is a Japanese version) the carriage rider's face is never revealed....Regardless of the youtube's video claiming as the original Japanese ending, anyone can make a fake video and name the title as an original."

This is not something to debate.The fact of the matter is that the Code Geass R2 ending I posted the last round had this scene on DVD. This is a fact, not an opinion or an edit. My opponent can have his own opinions but not his own facts.




2. "As you can see in the scene C2 is looking up in the sky, and many characters in other animes or movies tend to look up to the sky to represent the character that's dead, being in Heaven living in peace."

CC was talking to Lelouch. If the whole series had been watched by my opponent he would of remembered Lelouch's agreement with CC. Lelouch had agreed to live a life of solitude with CC back in Code Geass R1's first episode. Lelouch accepted the agreement in order to save his own life. This is why the agreement with CC is not relevant until Lelouch has used his abilities to fulfill his own personal wishes.

"If I grant you power, could you go on? I propose a deal—in exchange for this power, you must agree to make my one wish come true. Accept this contract, and you accept its conditions. While living in the world of humans, you will live unlike any other: a different providence, a different time, a different life. The Power of the King will condemn you to a life of solitude. Are you prepared for this?"

Due to his powers, Lelouch had to be condemned to a life of solitude. Just as CC was previously condemned to a life of solitude as well. CC is immortal and I am of the opinion that Lelouch may not only be alive but immortal as well. I can further elaborate on this point the next round.

3."I also want to raise the argument, how could Lelouch have survived after clearly being stabbed in the heart and staggered while he spoke to Nunally and clearly he closed his eyes at the very end of his last words. This event cannot be denied and is a mere fact, so I ask con to argue against this point."

It is merely another ploy by Lelouch. Lelouch feigned death multiple times throughout the series. Other characters thought he was dead when he wasn't. These events can not be denied either. I will list these events if Pro stands to deny their existence.

4. It is also against Lelouch's character to willingly allow himself to be killed.

There was only a few characters throughout the series that Lelouch actually cared about. Lelouch was not a hero, he was merely a protagonist in the series. To conclude he would allow himself to be killed is completely against everything we previously saw in the series. Let us not forget, Lelouch ruthlessly killed both of his parents without any tears of regret. The same Lelouch who used his supporters as "pawns" to fulfill his personal goals. Now, we are supposed to believe he died for the world as a martyr. That is not only inconsistent but silly as well.
Debate Round No. 3
Brian123456

Pro

"This is not something to debate.The fact of the matter is that the Code Geass R2 ending I posted the last round had this scene on DVD. This is a fact, not an opinion or an edit. My opponent can have his own opinions but not his own facts."

I would like to remind Con that the point of showing me this video of the "original Japanese ending" was to prove that the original Japanese ending clearly displayed the very fact that Lelouch was still in character after the Zero Requiem was performed. Now, what con has said previously has intrigued me, about the original Japanese ending being on DVD. There's Con's mistake. The Original Japanese version never came out on DVD, instead the original anime aired on MBS in Japan and also airing on JNN station in Japan. However, it's not specifically stated that the DVD finished before the anime, but allow me to ask Con whether or not it would make sense to make a DVD while a series is still on going? Even if it did make sense and has occurred before in television history, DVDs NEVER finished before the actual series that was being aired on some kind of channel or station. So to con, would it make sense to end the series with DVDs and not work on a series that started before the DVD? In fact, Code geass ended in September 28th 2008 while the DVD Blu-Ray was released 2012-2013.
(correct me if I am wrong)

Which brings me back to my previous point. In the last scene of Code geass where C2 is riding on a carriage; the carriage driver's face is never revealed and con can go to ANY anime site and re-watch the last scene from Code geass and will see that I am right, about the very fact that Lelouch is never or ever clearly revealed to be alive or never shown to be there at the last scene.

"CC was talking to Lelouch. If the whole series had been watched by my opponent he would of remembered Lelouch's agreement with CC. Lelouch had agreed to live a life of solitude with CC back in Code Geass R1's first episode. Lelouch accepted the agreement in order to save his own life. This is why the agreement with CC is not relevant until Lelouch has used his abilities to fulfill his own personal wishes. "

I do remember Lelouch's bargain with C2, however Con needs to be reminded that C2 wish was to die and be rid of her existence from this world. So allow me to inspect this bargain between Lelouch and C2 more closely. What does live a life of solitude actually mean. Well, there are various options as to what it actually means but I believe (through my observations of what C2 wants) that living life a solitude means living life as an immortal, which C2 did live as for a very long time. Because C2 wanted to die and be rid of her existence, she wanted to pass on her immortality to Charles. However, as you can see, Lelouch disturbed the process of the transaction of the immortality, and only Charles could take away C2's immortality because Charles took his own brother's immortality. Thus Lelouch isn't able to perform the transaction of the immortality because Lelouch did not have enough power, and as the story progresses you can see Lelouch slowly failing their bargain and losing control of his Geass power.

Which brings me to my next point. Lelouch was never immortal to begin with. One reason supporting the point that Lelouch was immortal, was the fact that he "killed" Charles and took possession of Geass, which is a way to take one's immortality. However, Con needs to realize that Charles was never killed by Lelouch, Lelouch merely trapped Charles in C's world. Remember Charles said to Lelouch that geass would not affect him, but he never said that C's world wouldn't be able to trap Charles, in which Lelouch used his geass to control.

"It is merely another ploy by Lelouch. Lelouch feigned death multiple times throughout the series. Other characters thought he was dead when he wasn't. These events can not be denied either. I will list these events if Pro stands to deny their existence."

I will admit that Lelouch is a really great mind player, but that does not explain why Lelouch had purple rings around his eyes, after he got stabbed by Zero and that would not explain why he looked like death, you know after being STABBED in the heart, I wouldn't be surprised to see a person look so pale. To back this even further, when Charles shot himself under Lelouch's geass, Charles never looked pale nor did he look like he was about to die, in fact Charles seemed to look like he was asleep but just with blood gushing out of his heart, nothing weird there.....
DarthVitiosus

Con

"Now, what con has said previously has intrigued me, about the original Japanese ending being on DVD. There's Con's mistake. The Original Japanese version never came out on DVD"

This is misleading and an outright lie. I never once mentioned anything about the original Japanese version. My opponent has been reading too much Wikipedia. I only stated "The fact that the Japanese version had Lelouch being alive initially cannot be argued against." Than I said "The fact of the matter is that the Code Geass R2 ending I posted the last round had this scene on DVD. " Both of these points my opponent has ignored to talk about DVD release dates rather than the content of the DVDs.

We are getting too far from the debate resolution here. We are arguing about the DVD's release instead about whether Lelouch died or not in this particular point. Plus, my opponent also doesn't agree that it is Lelouch in this clip. Okay, fine let us agree to disagree on this point, otherwise, we will continue to go in circles. There is only one round left and it shouldn't be wasted on this topic because this point is not relevant to the debate resolution. This argument in particular has deviated far from the debate. Let us agree to not continue any further about it since we won't come to a conclusion here with this limited amount of time.

"Which brings me back to my previous point. In the last scene of Code geass where C2 is riding on a carriage; the carriage driver's face is never revealed and con can go to ANY anime site and re-watch the last scene from Code geass and will see that I am right, about the very fact that Lelouch is never or ever clearly revealed to be alive or never shown to be there at the last scene."

My opponent has tried time after time in this debate to shift the burden of proof on to me. The burden of proof is on him since he is the one making the claim that someone is dead. That suggests, that they were previously out and about living somewhere and no longer are living anymore. I merely have to prove that Lelouch is not dead. I made the claim that it was Lelouch driving the carriage with C.C. in the back. My opponent has yet to refute this. He has offered no alternative. So who must we imagine is driving the carriage? Who is C.C. talking to? My opponent has offered no evidence but only opinion in this matter. I have offered a video clip as evidence suggesting whom it might be. Should we leave this matter to the conjecture of my opponent or to the video itself?

My opponent also made the claim that it was doctored. When it is well known that the clip I posted was in the Director's Cut of the DVD[1]. My opponent embarrasses himself further by stating "DVDs NEVER finished before the actual series that was being aired on some kind of channel or station." What evidence has he offered to support this statement? NONE. My opponent has shown he not only does not understand how DVDs are complied together but he has definitely shown he has never heard of "deleted scenes."

[1]http://www.anime-evo.net...

"I will admit that Lelouch is a really great mind player, but that does not explain why Lelouch had purple rings around his eyes, after he got stabbed by Zero and that would not explain why he looked like death, you know after being STABBED in the heart, I wouldn't be surprised to see a person look so pale. To back this even further, when Charles shot himself under Lelouch's geass, Charles never looked pale nor did he look like he was about to die, in fact Charles seemed to look like he was asleep but just with blood gushing out of his heart, nothing weird there....."

What evidence does my opponent have previously showing that the alteration of the eyes equals death? That is merely speculation. Then my opponent goes on further to make the absurd claim that a shot to the head is similar to a stabbing. A gun shot to wound to the head is fatal and there is a high chance of death. The gun shot to Charles' head was clean and bloodless. Versus the stabbing which was bloodier and a lot sloppier as well. A sword and gun are two different weapons.

Then my opponent even goes so far is to discuss something is "weird." The appropriate question is how many strong characters in Code Geass are normal? Very few are normal with immortals running wild and genius teenagers taking control of countries. My opponent must not think that is "weird" either. Yet a genius teenager who hung around an alleged immortal woman squirting out blood out of his heart must mean "death" and him surviving it would be "weird." My opponent has tried to apply logic to a show with little to no logic worth noting. This further shows why my opponent never acknowledged my claim that Lelouch would never allow himself to willingly be killed because he is far too selfish. If my opponent denies this I will offer tons of evidence next round to support this claim.




Debate Round No. 4
Brian123456

Pro

"1. The Japanese version showed Lelouch being alive."
"This is not something to debate.The fact of the matter is that the Code Geass R2 ending I posted the last round had this scene on DVD. This is a fact, not an opinion or an edit. My opponent can have his own opinions but not his own facts"

Words of Con..... I will not argue any longer upon this point, but all i ask is for the voters to read my arguments and then con's arguments.

"My opponent has tried time after time in this debate to shift the burden of proof on to me. The burden of proof is on him since he is the one making the claim that someone is dead. That suggests, that they were previously out and about living somewhere and no longer are living anymore. I merely have to prove that Lelouch is not dead. I made the claim that it was Lelouch driving the carriage with C.C. in the back. My opponent has yet to refute this. He has offered no alternative. So who must we imagine is driving the carriage? Who is C.C. talking to? My opponent has offered no evidence but only opinion in this matter. I have offered a video clip as evidence suggesting whom it might be. Should we leave this matter to the conjecture of my opponent or to the video itself?"

However, con is ALSO making the claim that Lelouch is alive. So I'm not asking Con to provide proof of Lelouch being alive but provide proof to his points and his claim.

AS for the carriage rider, I have indeed made a claim, I specifically said that Lelouch was not the carriage rider because it's a mere fact because Lelouch's face IS NEVER SHOWN.. therefore Con needs to prove that Lelouch is the carriage driver because my very evidence is that the carriage driver's face is never revealed, which then brings us to the Original japanese version, in which Con and I discussed already in which Con was eager to rid of that losing argument.

AS for who C2 was talking to in the last scene , I am only assuming through observations and my CLAIM that C2 was talking to Lelouch while looking up into the sky (Heaven) yet con keeps mentioning how I'm only stating my opinion when Con has not even backed up any evidence to which that C2 was talking to the carriage driver, but Con is assuming.

"What evidence does my opponent have previously showing that the alteration of the eyes equals death? That is merely speculation. Then my opponent goes on further to make the absurd claim that a shot to the head is similar to a stabbing. A gun shot to wound to the head is fatal and there is a high chance of death. The gun shot to Charles' head was clean and bloodless. Versus the stabbing which was bloodier and a lot sloppier as well. A sword and gun are two different weapons"

AND this is the part of the argument where I laugh. Con has clearly said I'm only making speculations but what Con HAS FORGOTTEN is that Charles WAS CLEARLY shot in the heart, So I ask Con to rewatch the anime and that Con is only making pointless points that are merely speculations and con hasn't gone to far to watch the anime as this debate goes fourth.

In any case, Charles was shot in the heart just the same spot where Lelouch was stabbed and if Con didn't know being stabbed in the heart is quite fatal and one can immediately become pale in which Lelouch did become but Charles did not.

So, this CLEARLY shows that Con has not tried to understand and rewatch the anime to prove his points, which he lacks knowledge of Code geass, while, I on the other hand clearly know every detail if not most of the detail that anyone may throw at me and I will have the tendency of actually doing my research unlike Con.

AS for my evidence, I specifically told Con to rewatch some scenes to prove my evidence, if Con is to lazy to do so, then so be it, however the evidence is their for the voters.

Vote Pro
DarthVitiosus

Con

Sorry readers, of this debate, it seems like we won't have a decisive conclusion or will we? My opponent has not offered one fact or a link to a fact during this entire debate. I offered video and a link or two. My opponent has only offered conjecture while I have offered speculation. We went off on tangents in this debate going to discuss DVD releases instead of the topic.

"AND this is the part of the argument where I laugh. Con has clearly said I'm only making speculations but what Con HAS FORGOTTEN is that Charles WAS CLEARLY shot in the heart, So I ask Con to rewatch the anime and that Con is only making pointless points that are merely speculations and con hasn't gone to far to watch the anime as this debate goes fourth."

It made me laugh when I realized my opponent has not offered a single ounce of evidence We are supposed to be superstitious and believe what he says is true without question.

"AS for my evidence, I specifically told Con to rewatch some scenes to prove my evidence, if Con is to lazy to do so, then so be it, however the evidence is their for the voters."

The voters and I are supposed to watch an anime because my opponent refuses to offer evidence. This is not evidence on the part of my opponent and merely conjecture.

My opponent, ignored my most valid points throughout this debate and either conceded them and agreed with them. Most notably my opponent did not respond or acknowledge this point:
"Then my opponent even goes so far is to discuss something is "weird." The appropriate question is how many strong characters in Code Geass are normal? Very few are normal with immortals running wild and genius teenagers taking control of countries. My opponent must not think that is "weird" either. Yet a genius teenager who hung around an alleged immortal woman squirting out blood out of his heart must mean "death" and him surviving it would be "weird." My opponent has tried to apply logic to a show with little to no logic worth noting. This further shows why my opponent never acknowledged my claim that Lelouch would never allow himself to willingly be killed because he is far too selfish. If my opponent denies this I will offer tons of evidence next round to support this claim. "

My opponent even went to on to concede another one of my points:

"It is merely another ploy by Lelouch. Lelouch feigned death multiple times throughout the series. Other characters thought he was dead when he wasn't. These events can not be denied either. I will list these events if Pro stands to deny their existence."

My Opponent: "I will admit that Lelouch is a really great mind player"

My opponent has not once address the outlandish tendecies on the show and we have seen him try to bring rationality to a world that is irrational.

On top of all these different points, there is going to be a Code Geass 3 which includes Lelouch. Lelouch being in Code Geass 3 has officially been confirmed as well[1]. This officially refutes my opponent's lack of points altogether. Code Geass 3 is supposed to be released in 2015.

[1]http://codegeass.us...
[2]http://www.fanpop.com...


Vote Con please.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by rockcityboy 2 years ago
rockcityboy
I still on ep 3
Listen To Colors By Flow
Posted by DeepInThought 2 years ago
DeepInThought
I defiantly have to agree with Ember_Proof, this would be a bad debate to except
Posted by Ember_Proof 2 years ago
Ember_Proof
bro no one is going to contend this. The statement is a fact ergo there is no debate.
No votes have been placed for this debate.