The Instigator
Adam2
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
ShadowKingStudios
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

"Lethal Weapon"/"Die Hard" launched the buddy cop genre, not "48 hours"

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
ShadowKingStudios
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/10/2014 Category: Movies
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 974 times Debate No: 56403
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

Adam2

Pro

First round is for acceptance. I will argue that it was "Lethal Weapon" or "Die Hard" who launched the buddy cop genre, not "48 hours." I want con to make the argument that "48 Hours" launched the genre.
ShadowKingStudios

Con

48 Hours debuted 1982. LW in 1987; DH in 1988. 48 Hours proceeds them by an estimated 5-6 years therefore establishing two opposite characters in a cop drama/comedy/action film.
Debate Round No. 1
Adam2

Pro

First round is for acceptance. I will argue that it was "Lethal Weapon" or "Die Hard" who launched the buddy cop genre, not "48 hours." I want con to make the argument that "48 Hours" launched the genre.
The reason 48 Hours isn't a buddy film is because of the racism and lack of respect that Jack Cates (played by Nick Nolte) has for Reggie Hammond (played by Eddie Murphy). And likewise, I also have reason to believe that Cates really disrespects his black boss, making him not just a racist but a fool who would put his own job at jeapordy.
What is a buddy film, you may ask? There has to be a level of respect. Mind you, it doesn't have to be a friendly relationship, but eventually it has to become friendship. Mind you, in Lethal Weapon, Riggs and Murtough coundn't fear each other more. Murtough wanted to retire and Riggs was suicidal because of the loss of his wife. However, even in the moments when there seemed to be a aversion for each other, they got along. When they are on their way to apprehend suspects at a cozy mansion (the one with the pool), they already get along, with Murtough laugh. Buddy cops are supposed to be pleasant. Partners having a good time, sharing jokes.

48 Hours is anything but a buddy movie. Cates treats Hammond with disrespect, calls him a "nigger" and a "spearchucker," even makes a messed up remark about how he didn't know that "darker people got foreign car jobs."
;
In the beginning of the movie, in exchange for Hammond's favor and service of trying to help him get a criminal, named Ganz, Nolte refuses to let Hammond out of prison, and only does so, because that's how desperate he was


The sequal to the movie isn't any more of a buddy film either. Cates cheats Hammond of his money, and Hammond hates Cates for a good reason. Nothing there has the making of a buddy film whatsoever. It's more depressing to watch sometimes.

For those reasons it couldn't have been that movie. "Die Hard" is more of a fairy tale with friendship than "Lethal Weapon." Bruce Willis' character is pals with Reginald Veljohnson's character, and has been.
But both are more buddy cop films than "48 Hours," which is more pitting an angry black man with a potential Klan member, and yes I mean what I say, as Cates acts like one throughout the entire film, and he's even worse in the second, because he's a snide backstabber who cheats people.
ShadowKingStudios

Con

Your comment: "The reason 48 Hours isn't a buddy film is because of the racism and lack of respect that Jack Cates" is based on opinion not a general consensus of what a "buddy cop film" consist of.

Wikipedia states:
"A buddy cop film is a film with plots involving two people of very different and conflicting personalities who are forced to work together to solve a crime and/or defeat criminals, sometimes learning from each other in the process. The two are normally cops, but some films, such as 48 Hrs. (a cop and a con), that are not about two cops may still be referred to as buddy cop films."

Respectable critics say...

Matt's Movie Review:
"One of the first buddy action movies, 48 Hrs. laid the ground work for the sub-genre that was at its best during the 1980's." Umm, like Lethal Weapon.

Ebert wrote:
"What makes the movie special is how it's made. Nolte and Murphy are good, and their dialogue is good, too -- quirky and funny. ... Where [Walter] Hill [the director] grows in this movie is in his ability to create characters. In a lot of his earlier movies ("The Warriors," "The Driver," "The Long Riders," "Southern Comfort") he preferred men who were symbols, who represented things and so didn't have to be human. In "48 Hrs.," Nolte and Murphy are human, vulnerable, and touching. Also mean, violent, and chauvinistic."

Dave Kehlr (Chicago Review):
"All in all, a superior genre piece, if not the height of Hill's artistry."

More than 30 years ago 48 Hours was recognized as a buddy cop film by film critics and audiences. Thus predating LW by 5 years.
Debate Round No. 2
Adam2

Pro

Your comment: "The reason 48 Hours isn't a buddy film is because of the racism and lack of respect that Jack Cates" is based on opinion not a general consensus of what a "buddy cop film" consist of.
Actually according to this source: only my definition of buddy cop movie really is the accepted definition:
Wikipedia states:

"A buddy cop film is a film with plots involving two people of very different and conflicting personalities who are forced to work together to solve a crime and/or defeat criminals, sometimes learning from each other in the process. The two are normally cops, but some films, such as 48 Hrs. (a cop and a con), that are not about two cops may still be referred to as buddy cop films."
The operative word here is "may." It's never stated that movies that are not about two cops can be referred to as buddy cop movies, but only that maybe they could, which means the genereal consencious is that thost movies are usually about two cops working together, and in every true buddy cop movie there is also an ounce of respect. For this reason "48 Hours" can never really be a true buddy cop movie. It's too mean-spirited and vicious.

In most buddy cop movies, the partners are free people. Though it's understandible that Reggie is a criminal. Still, the way he treats Hammond repeatedly is as if they're not really partners. He even states in the beginning of the movie: "We ain't partners, we ain't brothers, and we ain't friends."

Now here's more on why "48 Hours" series isn't buddy cop: in the second movie, Cates is worse than he was in the first. He actually cheats Reggie of his money, against his will, with a smug arrogance.
;

ShadowKingStudios

Con

No, no, no, sir. The operative wording is "the two are normally cops". which implies a buddy cop film isn't restricted to both lead characters being "police officers". They can be FBI agents or CIA agents as in "This Means War" which grossed a whopping $156,491,279. As long as one lead character is a "law enforcement agent" that is "teamed up" with someone "opposite" his/her character and the "two work together to stop a crime" it will be, may be, or is considered a "buddy cop film."

Your grievance that Cates is too disrespectful to Hammond is irrelevant to the heart of Cates's character and status. He is a redneck cop, so of course he's going to "dislike and disrespect a black convicted felon." Is it logical to assume that a redneck cop is going to cuddle a black felon, invite him over for Thanksgiving, and name a son after him? No. The character opposition made sense.

As Ebert stated in 2004 about 48Hrs: "The two men start out suspicious of each other in this movie and work up to a warm dislike. But eventually, grudgingly, a kind of respect starts to grow."

Citing Another 48 Hours is not relevant since your premise restricted the movies to LW, DH, and 48H, and not their franchises. It would be irrelevant to base this argument off your premise: that LW4 centered around an American superiority in its cliched representation of thuggish, martial artists Asian organization, therefore LW did not launch the buddy cop genre. That sir, would be a silly argument.
Debate Round No. 3
Adam2

Pro

I forfeit. Damn, you beat me, pal. I need to fine tune my debates. hehe. You win!
ShadowKingStudios

Con

It was fun! Thanks for the opportunity.
Debate Round No. 4
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Themba 2 years ago
Themba
Adam2ShadowKingStudiosTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro concession.