The Instigator
Tophatdoc
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points
The Contender
discipulus_animae
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Liberal Democracy is the most legitimate form of government

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Tophatdoc
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/27/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,669 times Debate No: 41350
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (1)

 

Tophatdoc

Pro

From what I have observed and understand liberal democracy is the most legitimate form of government. As the pro side I will argue this, so I have the burden of proof.

The following terms and concepts are defined.
1. Liberalism(philosophy)-a political or social philosophy advocating the freedom of the individual, parliamentary systems of government, nonviolent modification of political, social, or economic institutions to assure unrestricted development in all spheres of human endeavor, and governmental guarantees of individual rights and civil liberties.
2. Democracy-government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
3. Liberal Democracy-is a form of government in which representative democracy operates under the principles of liberalism, i.e. protecting the rights of minorities and, especially, the individual.
4. Legitimate-in accordance with established rules, principles, or standards.
5. Government-the governing body of persons in a state, community, etc.; administration.

First round is acceptance only. And Fourth round is closing arguments with no new facts.
discipulus_animae

Con

I accept your challenge and look forward to a good debate.
Debate Round No. 1
Tophatdoc

Pro

I would like to thank the Con side for accepting this debate. Good luck.

1. Liberal Democracy in Theory
Liberal Democracy is representative form of governance that provides protections for the individual and groups. This means liberal democracy must respect the rule of law to protect the rights of individuals and groups. There must be elections to keep the governments representative. Therefore, I will argue that liberal democracy is the most legitimate form because the rights of all citizens are protected under the rule of law.

Liberal democracy is just not a democracy. In a democracy the majority automatically have the predominant. Meaning 51% can vote what they want regardless of the other 49%. In a liberal democracy, 51% can't vote away the rights of the other 49% because of the rule of law. In any form of autocracy where a minority dictate the rules for the majority is not always representative. Elections are not held so there is no guarantee that the autocrat will be representative. It is only under a liberal democracy where people have the capability to vote and have their rights protected.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...

2. Liberal Democracy in Practice
Liberal Democratic countries would be considered the United States, the United Kingdom, Japan, Israel, and Canada. There are others as well.
discipulus_animae

Con

The problem with many countries that are liberal democracies is that their elections are perpetually class base. We see this with the democrats trying to get the proletariat and the salariat to vote for them through social programs such as welfare and food stamps; The republicans are not that much better because they represent the bourgeoisie with their big business friendly legislation. The most legitimate form of government there could be would be a libertarianism form of government. The strongest example of a country with both personal freedom, economic freedom, and smaller government than any liberal democracy would be Ireland.
1. libertarianism the belief that there should be minimal government, slim to no rules regulating personal freedom, and little to no regulations on the economy.

Basically the United States used to be the best government it could be back in the mid to late 1800's until the income tax, interstate commerce commission, and many other laws and acts were passed just so a government could be "fair"; by being fair a country becomes no more legitimate than it was before. The country's government becomes even less so due to the fact that they take rights away from certain citizens (gun laws and regulations) and certain businesses (the breaking of the standard oil trust) just because other citizens disliked what they practiced and instead of simply not participating in those activities chose to make them illegal just for the pure fact they were jealous or disagreed. This in my opinion or any reasonable person's opinion makes the liberal democracy inferior to the Libertarianism form of government, which the united states was on into the early 20th century at its height of power.
Debate Round No. 2
Tophatdoc

Pro

I noticed my opponent entirely ignored my points to just state his own. The burden of proof is on the pro's side and he has failed to address the proof I have provided. I will go on to address the points he has pointed out. But the con side so far has not refuted any of the points in the second round.

"The problem with many countries that are liberal democracies is that their elections are perpetually class base."

My opponent has made the claim that liberal democracies are class based. He seems to be implying something is wrong with class.What is wrong with class? To deny it would be to deny the difference in capacity and ability among human beings. Even jobs are based in classifications in order to pay wages. Hence why people get re-classified.

The definition of class: a number of persons or things regarded as forming a group by reason of common attributes, characteristics, qualities, or traits; kind; sort: a class of objects used in daily living.

Classes exist in every notable society of significance. Even Rome, considered one of the most influential civilizations had a class system. In an aristocracy or monarchy there are landed gentry, commoners, lords, and royal families. In Japan feudalism had a daimyo(lord), samurais, commoners, and merchants. In a liberal democracy, class is usually determined by the amount of wealth one posses(upper, middle, and lower classes). There were classes in the Soviet union as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.facts-about-japan.com...
http://www.photius.com...

"We see this with the democrats trying to get the proletariat and the salariat to vote for them through social programs such as welfare and food stamps;"

People are voting by choice what they want, not by exercising force upon their opponents. If the voter choose that, they receive what they want.

"The most legitimate form of government there could be would be a libertarianism form of government. The strongest example of a country with both personal freedom, economic freedom, and smaller government than any liberal democracy would be Ireland."

The con side must of missed the purpose of the debate. It is to argue the most legitimate form of governance not the freest. Ireland is a liberal democracy. My opponent has also made a bold claim with no evidence. The con side has said Ireland is the most freest government yet has failed to show proof.According to Freedom House, the countries that have the most freedom are the Scandinavian countries. All of those countries have monarchs by the way.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.jstor.org...
http://www.freedomhouse.org...
http://www.freedomhouse.org...

"Basically the United States used to be the best government it could be back in the mid to late 1800's until the income tax,"

The United States was a liberal democracy in the late 19th century as well. As I mentioned earlier, we are not debating what the most freest countries are. We are debating the most legitimate, not freest. Libertarianism is not a system of governing. Libertarianism only discusses the amount of government interference into the whole of society. An autocratic or oligarchic society could be libertarian.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://mises.org...
http://reason.com...
discipulus_animae

Con

discipulus_animae forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Tophatdoc

Pro

Extend all arguments.

The Pro side has shown several liberal democracies in the world and how they function practically. In the second round, I showed the ideals of liberal democracy. Then I explained how it functions in theory and practice. I have provided reasons for why liberal democracy should be considered the most legitimate form of government since it balances individual rights, group rights, and the will of the majority at the same time.

In ending, the Con side has failed to show Liberal Democracy is not the most legitimate form of government. If you agree, Vote Pro.
discipulus_animae

Con

discipulus_animae forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Tophatdoc 3 years ago
Tophatdoc
@TN05, a liberal democracies usually do have a constitution because liberal democracies respect the rule of law.
Posted by TN05 3 years ago
TN05
Does this liberal democracy model have a Constitution or similar supreme code, or not?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by iamanatheistandthisiswhy 3 years ago
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Tophatdocdiscipulus_animaeTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: While I am not a proponent of Pros position, Pro defined the debate and made good arguments while Con did not attempt to rebut anything and forfeited multiple rounds. For this reason arguments and conduct are awarded to Pro. Sources go to Pro, as Con offered zero sources. Spelling and grammar go to Pro, as Con seems to be doing a copy paste effort.