The Instigator
rightside_strongside
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
JTSmith
Con (against)
Winning
27 Points

Liberalism and Communism Go Hand-in-Hand

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
JTSmith
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/2/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,995 times Debate No: 5232
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (5)

 

rightside_strongside

Pro

So here's the deal. All these liberals that want to piss and moan about the way the Bush administration is handling the war and the economy are out for one reason. To convince people that Bush is wrong and liberals are right. Once that is accomplished and they get their Jihadi president in office they will be out for one thing...communism.

All along democrats have argued for a bigger role played by the government especially in the role of health care. Democrats think that a government controlled health care system is going to fix things for the "less fortunate" people, or as I call them, "lazy bums who want to live at the expense of us good taxpayers"

There is no logical reason why these people can't afford healthcare and its not because they didnt have money to go to college or grew up in a poor neighborhood, it's because they have no desire to work for a good living. My father grew up extremely poor and never saw a day of college in his life, but he did get one thing from being poor, a work ethic. He turned that work ethic into a career in sales and now makes over 170K.

Now democrats want to say that welfare and healthcare needs reformed and rich people should pay more taxes on their money. Tell my why someone who worked hard their whole life should have to pay for a good for nothing bum who wants to sit around his crappy house in the ghetto and not work? It doesn't make sense.

They want what they call a "level playing field" with a redistribution of wealth attitude. Redistribution of wealth only says one thing...COMMUNISM!
JTSmith

Con

Alright. To begin I would like to lay down a few definitions.

Communism: a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. B: a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production D: a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably

Liberalism: theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard c: a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties

(definitions courtesy of Merriam-Webster.com)

There are certain HUGE and very noticeable differences betweem Communism and Liberalism.

1. Liberalism is "based on free competition and a self-regulating market". Communism does not! In order for communism to be classified as communism, the government must have control over the economy.

2. Liberalism emphasizes "the autonomy of the individual and stands for the protection of political and civil liberties."
Communism does not. Communism emphasizes comformity and takes away liberties such as the right to free speech, the right to practice religion (let alone the right to choose which religion you practice), the right to own property, and the right to own a business. These rights are rights the Liberalism fights for with passion.

Furthermore, two can play at this game!
Conservatism wants to ban flag burning! Thats a violation of free speech. Communism!
Conservatism wants ban homosexual marriage! Violation of a civil liberty. Communism!
Conservatism runs an economy that favor a small wealthy class and ignores a large middle class. Communism!
Liberalism promotes individual liberties in a way conservatism has never!

Now my point is not to accuse conservatives of being communist. That would be ridiculous. However, to call a Liberal a Communist is equally ridiculous. My opponent can find ways to prove the Liberalism parallels to communism, but I myself can find ways to parallel Conservatism to communism as well. We can can go in circles all day, but the truth will stand.

Liberalism is not communism.
Both accusations are insignifigant because of the vast amount of differences the two hold with communism.

Moving on, I would like to turn my your attention to this graph providid by Wikipedia which illustrates the political spectrum.

http://upload.wikimedia.org...

According to the chart, Liberalism is a solid 135 degrees from communism. That would mean that the two political theories are, in fact, almost complete opposites!!

Need I say more?

My opponents argument is based on the idea that liberalism in its most extreme form is communism.
That is a false notion.
Liberalism in its most extreme form, is anarchism, wich is VERY FAR from being communism!

According to the chart, a communist could never be a liberal because a liberal is not authoritative and, just as well, a liberal could never be a communist because communism IS authoritative.

Now, in closing, I would like to address a few of my opponents points.

1. My opponent stated:
"Once that is accomplished and they get their Jihadi president in office they will be out for one thing..."
-I had to address this point despite its irrelevance.
Jihadi???? You are going to accuse a man raised in kansas and hawaii by a christian mother, and by christian grandparents of being engaged in a islamic holy war because the father who he met ONCE when he was 10yrs old happened to be a muslim?
No. That's blatant ignorance, my friend. Leave your slandering neo-conservative traits out of this debate and lets argue with facts, not slander.
Fact: Barack Obama has been a practicing christian his entire life!

2. My opponent based his argument on Broad Generalizations that assume that everyone who is a liberal is in favor of a socialist agenda.
That is completely untrue. I myself am a liberal, yet I am STRONGLY against the idea of a making the US a welfare state, and I WILL NOT support socialized medicine.
Barack Obama has made those same statements himself.

My opponent cannot claim that 1.5 Billion people have the same political agenda because they are liberal.

Thanks for the Debate!
Debate Round No. 1
rightside_strongside

Pro

rightside_strongside forfeited this round.
JTSmith

Con

It seems my opponent has foreited his turn to post a rebuttal...
so...
My point still stands. Liberalism DOES NOT go hand in hand with communism.
Debate Round No. 2
rightside_strongside

Pro

rightside_strongside forfeited this round.
JTSmith

Con

I dunno why you would start this debate if you couldnt finish it...
oh well...
Vote Con!
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by F0rTheWin 1 year ago
F0rTheWin
Dr_Obvious
... I agree completely, and now universal health care, liberalism/democratic parties leaders/progressives all in deep association with communism. All the leaders of the communists movement in the U.S. use other names like "Michael Luther King" and being being a leader of civil rights, they forgave all his plagiarized speeches and his heavily plagiarized doctoral thesis and socialist liars gave him his doctorate anyway. Every civil rights leader in the U.S. has been heavy into communism. The Almost every communist leader has been a dirt bag, even Ho Chi Minh was an abusive jerk killing someone by caning for apposing him.
The Congressional Black Caucus are all heavily communistic/socialistic liberal democrats. Communism and socialism are almost completely full of fail. Check my statements. This movement is part of "throw America under the bus and watch it burn". The religious and the communists should find another place to ruin. Main stream liberal America seems to want Stalin in office, and embarrass and destroy any opposition to its ideas - just like Stalin.
By saying pro democrat today, you're saying pro socialism/communism
Posted by Dr_Obvious 2 years ago
Dr_Obvious
I find it interesting that pro used the original definition of liberalism, which is now considered conservatism. There is, in fact, little difference between modern liberals and communists.
Posted by Holksma 2 years ago
Holksma
These are Generalities. Liberals: Pro Free-Market, Conservatives: Pro-Free Market, Communists: Anti-Free Market, Liberals: Freedom of Organized Religion, Conservatives: Theocracy or Freedom of Organized Religion, Communism: Abolishment of Organized Religion, Private Religion without owning property is fine AKA (Church, Synagogue, Mosque, Temples, etc.) Personally I think old churches should be museum pieces and nothing more; New churches to Community Centers and nothing more. Liberals: Pro Abortion Conservatives: Anti-Abortion Communists:Pro- Abortion. Liberals: Anti-Gun Conservatives: Pro-Gun Communists: Pro-Guns. Conservatives: Anti-Equal Rights, Liberals: Equal Rights, Communists: Everyone gets equal treatment good or bad. Liberals: Pro-Middle Class, Conservatives: Pro-Privileged Class, Communists: Pro-Working Class. In Other words Communist Moral Compass falls all over the map but one thing is for sure, We are pro-working class and favor centralized economics.
Posted by joshandr30 8 years ago
joshandr30
Is this all it is about? Who has the better argument? Where is the Truth in this generation? I know this is a "debate site" but it still shocks me. JTSmith do you really believe you are correct because of this debate, yes you are correct in the "words" but do you really believe he meant what he wrote? You did know what he was meaning to say but instead of debating about that you choose the words he used instead of the meaning. Unless you really thought he meant the dictionary meaning of the two words. In the Webster pocket dictionary the word communism means:the concept of a classless society with common ownership of property. And I think you knew this but chose a different definition just to win the debate. In TRUTH your arguments were not based on what strong side meant to say. My biggest question is do you believe you are right because he quit? Jokintjboy, I am not for Obama, am I a racist also? I do not care what his skin color is, we are ALL made in the image of God and that is all that matters. I am against ABORTION, I HATE ABORTION. Before you twist my words I do not HATE the women or doctors but I hate the act of abortion, because I am called to hate sin (not the sinner) and abortion is murder plain and simple. Any candidate that is for ABORTION is for murder and therefore I can not vote for them. He could offer me a million dollars and I would say.

Matthew 4:10
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
In context
9And (Satan) saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Am I still a racist, just because you believe you are right does not mean you are in fact right.
May the Lord bless you and keep you, may HE make HIS face shine upon you and give you peace.
Posted by jurist24 8 years ago
jurist24
There's a difference between classical liberalism and Modern American Liberalism, predominantly in respect to economic freedom. Regardless, JTSmith handed down a good response.

And, then there's this: "rightside_strongside is obviously racist and is blinded by prejudice". I hate the "O" word, "obviously". Is it really objectively visible? The point could be argued, but it seems that he's more class-prejudiced than racist.
Posted by the_conservative 8 years ago
the_conservative
AnSmith, i destroyed you lol
Posted by ANSmith 8 years ago
ANSmith
jtsmith SMOKED his opponent in the last round, he did a phonomenal job! =)
Posted by JTSmith 8 years ago
JTSmith
Whether or not thats true is up to debate...however, my opponents assertion was simply that "Liberalism" goes hand in hand with communism. It was not that "American Liberalism" (although i would argue there is no difference) goes hand in hand.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
Where is the evidence of this racism?

I should note that the definitions used by JTsmith are no longer active in the United States (or in Britain for that matter, courtesy of the Liberal Democrats), though they still have meaning on the european continent. Modern "liberalism" is essentially the opposite of the liberalism you describe in every fundamental regard. For one thing, that bit about the gold standard is clearly incompatible with it's invention of fiat currency :D.
Posted by jokintjboy 8 years ago
jokintjboy
rightside_strongside is obviously racist and is blinded by prejudice. Are your parents racist as well and is this why you have such hate for Obama because of the color of his skin? Such a fool you are.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by jurist24 8 years ago
jurist24
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Vote Placed by ANSmith 8 years ago
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