Lies about Muhammad (pbuh)
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Yes, indeed Muammad has beaten, raped, and enslaved women and children.
Quranic verse 4:34:
"Allah has made men superior to women because men spend their wealth to support them. Therefore, virtuous women are obedient, and they are to guard their unseen parts as Allah has guarded them. As for women whom you fear will rebel, admonish them first, and then send them to a separate bed, and then BEAT them. But if they are obedient after that, then do nothing further; surely Allah is exalted and great!"
Quran 4:11 states:
" A male should receive a share equal to that of two females."
"It should also be known that a woman's testimony is worth half that of a man."
"If the penalty is stoning, they are to be stoned, no matter the weather, or if they are ill. A pregnant woman is not stoned until she gives birth and the child does not need to nurse." (Verse unknown, but it is in the Quaran)
"The marriage vow most rightly expected to be obeyed is the husband's right to enjoy the wife's vagina."
Claiming that a woman's only worth is her vagina. Which not only is it objectifying a woman sexually, but it is degrading her.
FIRST ISSUE: Muhammad (PBUH) didn't molest A'ishah at all, and didn't touch her when she was six. Firstly, most scholars agree that she was 18 y.o., while some others say she was 15 or 16.
- was a great teacher in religion
- is the fourth most influential transmitter of ahadith
- has also been a politician
- is described as Muhammad's most beloved wife, maybe only after his first wife Khadija
- is described by many as a brilliant, intelligent, eloquent woman, the best in speech
Also, she was known as the Mother of the Believers when she was alive, and she still is nowadays, because of many reasons - for example, because of her practicing of the religion. Not to mention the fact that she also learned how to fight and took part in a battle.
You can see it's not for chance if two thirds (two thirds!) of shariah were created, adjusted, and fixed by her!; and this isn't reported only in ahadith, islamic books etc., but is also said by non-muslims.
Now, I think you agree that children who are sexually abused always become mentally unstable and unbalanced adults, unless they attend sessions with psychologists and such - who didn't exist at that age, and it doesn't solve the children's problem 100% anyways.
Now tell me, how could a raped child become such an influential figure and a brilliant woman in many fields of religion and life?
SECOND ISSUE: Sorry, but who's this mentally challenged woman he (pbuh) raped that you're talking about?
THIRD ISSUE: Though you don't give much details about it, I already knew the story about him (pbuh) having sex with his aunt - and please, let me say that it is a really old story who was distorted and simply originated from a lie.
FOURTH ISSUE: All the ahadiths you refer to about him (pbuh) "sexually assaulting his wives" are either weak or are reported by al-Bukhari, who is very well known to those who seriously study Islam even just superficially for transmitting many many false, weak, and contradictory (self- or with each other) ahadith. Though some of his ahadith are indeed true, some others even go against the Qur'an, so it's easy to know which ones you have to discard.
FIFTH ISSUE: who are these 61 women you're talking about?
SIXTH ISSUE: Here's the answer: you can find it on this online guide for muslim parents. Oh, what a horrible website!, it must order parents to beat their children till they bleed, huh?
The fact about beating children is reported only and only by Abu Dawud, who we know has collected a mix of authentic ahadith, good ahadith and weak and unreliable ones. Not only the Qur'an prohibits beating "as if they were slaves": also the Prophet (PBUH) stated in another hadith that the beating is very discouraged but, IF it ever becomes really NECESSARY, it should be done so that it does no harm, and absolutely not in the face in any case - not even for animals'.
SEVENTH ISSUE: Please, can you bring me the ahadith you're referring to? This is a bit too general.
EIGHTH ISSUE: 'A'ishah reported: the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) never beat a thing with his hand except the time when he was in battle. He (Pbuh) never beat a servant or a woman.
[Muslim (4/79/1814), Ibn Majah (1/1984), Ahmad (6/32/229,232), al-Darimi (2/2218)]
There are also other ahadith where Muhammad (Pbuh) condemns violence, rape, and such. Even during battle, he (pbuh) said to avoid the face.
4:34 actually says, "Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand."
"Men are guardians over women because Allah has made some of them excel others, and because they (men) spend of their wealth. So virtuous women are those who are obedient, and guard the secrets of their husbands with Allah"s protection. And as for those on whose part you fear disobedience, admonish them and leave them alone in their beds, and chastise them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Surely, Allah is High, Great."
The verse following the above gives further weight to the above interpretation of meanings:
And if you fear a breach between them two (meaning the man and the wife), appoint an arbiter from his folk and an arbiter from her folk. If they desire amendment Allah will make them of one mind. Verily, Allah is ever Knowing, Aware.
Please also read these for a full and more detailed response: http://www.islamtomorrow.com...
As already said, the "beating" should be done so that it causes no harm or injures. Referring to the links above, especially the last one, we can understand that it should only be done in extreme cases. There's not much more to say about this, if not that we should notice that the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) always used to say: "How can you hug the woman with a hand you had hit her with?".
Al-Kafi also reported that he (Pbuh) said: "What! Does one of you hit his wife, and then attempt to embrace her?".
Finally, Muhammad (pbuh) in his last sermon said that "beating should be resorted to only if the wife has become guilty, in an obvious manner, of immoral conduct. "So, as I said, only in extreme cases.
Qur'an 2:282 doesn't state that. Please check your sources.
The response for 4:11 and 2:282 is the same.
It's really long and I think it would take 5.000 characs, so I don't have enough, but here's some websites who can answer.
Just please keep in mind that sharia, obviously, deals with common and usual scenarios which regard all times. Rare situations can't possibly become rules, because one simply needs to choose what to do depending on the situation of course!
But Allah knows more.
Shaykh Zakir Naik also says that "jurists agree that even one witness of a woman is sufficient for the sighting of the crescent of the moon. Imagine one woman witness being sufficient for one of the pillars of Islam, i.e. fasting and the whole Muslim community of men and women agree and accept her witness! Some jurists say that one witness is required at the beginning of Ramadhan and two witnesses at the end of Ramadhan. It makes no difference whether the witnesses are men or women.
Some incidents require only female witness and that of a male cannot be accepted. For instance, in dealing with the problems of women, while giving the burial bath i.e. "ghusl" to a woman, the witness has to be a woman.
The seeming inequality of male and female witnesses in financial transactions is not due to any inequality of the sexes in Islam. It is only due to the different natures and roles of men and women in society as envisaged by Islam."
About the unknown verse, I'm sorry, but it isn't in the Qur'an.
As I already said, Al-Bukhari says many wrong things which go against the Qur'an, and the last hadith you mentioned is from Bukhari. I'm sorry, but very very few ahadith from al-Bukhari are reliable, and you can easily understand this one is not just by looking at the opinion of many muslims nowadays, Quran and ahadith and other simple little facts.
Islam recognizes that sexual desire does indeed exist and can be very strong, from one part or another of the couple (even if, usually, males have an hard time trying to "repress" it), but what it focuses on is the love, tenderness, and strong relationship that there must be between a wife and a husband to build a firm marriage.
Once again, sorry for my bad english. Keep in mind I'm not even english, so.
If there's something I left unexplained, please tell me.
Yes, Aisha was the wife of a sick pervert who was continually raped her at a young age.
In the previous round I have nevered said anything negative about Aisha as far as her character. She probably was a loving woman, maybe she was an amazing teacher of the religion. I honestly don't understand why because that religion is why she was raped in the first place, but if that's what she wanted to do, then I guess that's the way she wanted to live her life. I have never said she wasn't a loving, educated, aspiring woman.
In my previous round I have given information on the terrible things Muhammed has done to Aisha and other women and children. Your comeback is telling me how good of a woman Aisha was. Like I said, I never talked about the type of person Aisha was, but the terrible things she had to encounter with Muhammed such as rape. I feel that you are giving me irrelevant information via Aisha and how she lived.
Con states, "Now, I think you agree that children who are sexually abused always become mentally unstable and unbalanced adults, unless they attend sessions with psychologists and such - who didn't exist at that age, and it doesn't solve the children's problem 100% anyways.
Now tell me, how could a raped child become such an influential figure and a brilliant woman in many fields of religion and life?"
Well Con, this is such an untrue statement. There are many women who are rape victims but are still brilliant and successful. Just because Aisha was brilliant and possibly was influential, doesn't mean she wasn't raped. Like I said, I personally know rape victims who are living their lives the best they could. Aisha was possibly very depressed at the time, but sadly she had to balance those terrible memories of her rapes, and continuing to live her life in the happiest way possible. And this is something all rape victims have to go through. They try to forget about what happened to them, they try not to let what happened to them let them down. Yes, they could at times be mentally unstable but I the same time they want to obtain as much happiness as possible. Look at Lady Gaga, she was possibly raped based on songs she has wrote, but she's filthy rich, she's famous, and she continues as this day to inspire millions of people. So by saying just being Aisha was successful, doesn't mean she was raped is false.
I read on the source that Muhammed raped a mentally challeneged woman, I'm saying it's 100% true, but I wouldn't be surprised based on the sick crap he's already done to anything. This man seems to want to have sex with basically anything.
Muhammed having sex with his aunt is incest, and it's wrong. Literally 95% of the things this man has done in wrong, and yet muslims look up to him.
He did sexually assault his wives. The sources prove it.
The 61 women include his wives and his sex slaves, proved in the sources.
I am not proving my point for the others, you just have to face the truth darling. Muhammed has raped multiple women and some including little girls. He's a rapist, he's a misogynist, he condones violence. And islam is a religon that condones violence, rape, and sexism towards women.
About the 61 women, it just says that he had sex with 61 women, including slaves - as you said twice. And nothing else. No source, no ahadith, no Qur'an, no history book, nothing.
"Aisha was the wife of a sick pervert who was continually raped her at a young age": what, where, when, how...?
I know you didn't say anything bad about Aisha. But I wasn't saying that she's a good and nice and loving person.
I was saying she was clearly a balanced, self-confident adult woman who guided the whole Ummah (islamic community; and not only the women) when she was still alive; and she still is a brilliant example because of her qualities, such as knowledge, wisdom, and many more.
I'm sorry but "living their lives as best as they can" is not the same as being a politician, great teacher, and such.
Plus, shouldn't being raped continually all the time at a young age cause various kind of severe injures - fractures, severe bruises, maybe wounds...? A little girl like her would have surely suffered from serious damage, maybe even permanent. Very often do raped children suffer, for example, from fracture or dislocation of the hip.
You even said it yourself: she studied religion so much because she found absolutely nothing in it that permitted rape and such. She was a really practicing woman (and an example for the Ummah) because of this.
Human kind in that age may have known less than we know nowadays, but they weren't crazy nor dumb.
Nor does Islam force women to convert. All of the wives of the Prophet (SWS) converted on their own choice, because they wanted to. The first to embrace Islam was a woman, Khadijah.
I was giving you all that information because I wanted to show you how much balanced, self-confident, wise, brilliant Aishah really was. Not because I wanted to write some more to fill a white space (':
I'm not saying women/girls who were raped can't be intelligent, nice, brilliant adults. I'm saying that: many times it does happen, nowadays, to people to "recover", because there are psychologists, doctors and assistants ready to help and support sexually abused persons. But rarely do they become completely free of such an horrible nightmare that they sadly had to experience.
Plus at the time there were no psychologists, supporters, or doctors of any kind.
I know people who were raped as a little child or at the age of 13-14-15, too.
Here are my sources about this. Some are only in Italian, sorry.
...Seriously? Lady Gaga and Aishah are not comparable in any way.
Firstly, because they live in totally different times. Secondly, because they lived a totally different life. Thirdly, you can not tell or understand if she was raped just from her songs, which often have really cryptic lyrics with ten different possible meanings.
I don't know much about Lady Gaga, but doesn't she use drugs and smoke pot? And I can't consider a woman who dresses with meat as "stable" and "succesful" (this happened something like two years and a half ago). Not to mention many, many other things... Is this what you mean for "succesful and brilliant" figure?
How can you be 100% sure it's true, really. Were you there when it happened? Did someone who personally knew Muhammad (pbuh) tell you? Or did you study some scholar/imam/shaykh's books and essays? Same about the aunt thing. (By the way, you reported facts about the aunt wrong.)
I don't really think that sophisms like this are helpful in any way. Actually, I think they're rather useless and a waste of time.
So, let's go on.
I rebutted all of the things you said before, I don't understand why you tell me the same things again?
I also already rebutted both sources.
(Actually, one of the links isn't showing anymore now, but anyway.)
If you can't prove my rebuttal is false, then please bring other proofs against Muhammad (Pbuh) regarding violence and such.
Please check also: Sahih Muslim 1828 (56 - the Book of Injustice: 1 chapter, "Injustice is Haram")
The Prophet (pbuh) stated that Allah said, "Oh My muslims, I have made oppression unlawful for Me and for you, so do not oppress one another. [...]"
Sahih Muslim 1836 (56 - the Book of Injustice: 7 chapter, "Justice on the Day of Resurrection")
[...] The Prophet (pbuh) said, "The bankrupt of my Ummah is the one who comes on the Day of Resurrection with prayers, fasts and zakat. But he finds himself bankrupt on that day as he has exhausted his cash of virtues since he abused others, (there is then a list) [...] shed the blood of others, and beat others. [...]"
He himself (pbuh) said that hypocrites who pray and then treat others unjustly will never enter Heaven... then why would he himself (pbuh) act as an hypocrite?
Sahih Muslim 1812 (56 - the Book of Virtue: 51 chapter, "Abusing is Prohibited")
Abu Huraira narrated that the Prophet (pbuh) said: "When two abuse one another, it would be the first one who would be the sinner [...]".
So who abuses people is a sinner.
Also Sahih Muslim 1829, 1830, 1831, 1832 (the Book of Injustice) and Sahih Muslim 65 (the book of Iman (Faith), 44 chapter, "abusing a muslim is Fusuq and killing him is Kufr")
P.S.: I just re-read carefully and I noticed that not only you didn't even check if what those websites say is true. But you didn't even really read carefully those pages.
The first website states that X is in the Shariah, but then you say it's in the Qur'an, for example.
Or maybe I misunderstood?
I'm sure it is only my error.
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1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 2 years ago
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