The Instigator
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Pro (for)
Winning
19 Points
The Contender
Strycora
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points

Life has no unquestionalbe value if there is no God who created all things.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 8 votes the winner is...
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/27/2014 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 8,042 times Debate No: 58260
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (443)
Votes (8)

 

LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

First round is for acceptance and opening statements. My opponent can be atheistic, agnostic, or of whatever faith can be named under the sun. This debate is about the meaning of life. You can see by my screen name what I think the meaning of life is, but this debate is to question my opponents beliefs about the meaning of life,

If I clearly show my opponents beliefs are questionable, I should be awarded the points for having the better argument. This debate is about my opponents beliefs, not about mine.

If somebody who has the same beliefs as me wants to argue the Con position, they are welcome to do so.
Strycora

Con

Firstly, I would like to wish my opponent good luck on this debate. I'll be arguing from my own perspective, which is heavily influenced by Existentialism and Buddhism. I believe that if we understand what it means to be human, we can derive a meaning of life. I believe that people find their own purposes, and that the purpose of life in general is to become a fully developed individual by making interpersonal connections and by sticking to ones own principles. I am against nihilism, hopelessness, and suicide in every case that the individual is as conscious as a normal human being (so not in a vegetative state, for example). Life is the experiential manifestation of existence itself (existence was dead and spontaneously became alive) and as existence we are trying to find out our true nature. I will argue for a psycho-spiritual Karmic principle and the inherent aesthetic value to be found through experience that makes life worthwhile in an objective sense.
Debate Round No. 1
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

If we derive our own meaning for life, life has no unquestionable value if I decide life is meaningless. The definition of value is not in question.....the debate is about unquestionable value.....If God did not create everything, then who assigns value and how is the value they assign unquestionable? If value is assigned only by you, I find your assignment highly questionable. There is no value of life at all if "existence which was dead spontaneously became alive" and caused us to be here knowing existence. What's the difference if we don't know existence? If we don't know existence, we won't know suffering, pain, grief, death. So because we know the problems, it seems the problems destroy the value of life.....if existence could give value to life in the first place. How can existence which was dead then spontaneously become alive be valuable to me when if I am nothing but existence, I can exist dead with no pain.......or cease to exist? or cease to know existence?


It's like a math problem. Existence was dead..........is that a 0 or a 1? Let's say it is a 0 since dead means no life. Then it spontaneously became alive.......that's a positive, we can give it a 1 as a positive. Then we die......that's a negative 1.........so we start with dead existence, a 0, then we add 1 for life, then take away 1 for death, and we end up back at zero so if there was any value to life it is negated by death.


I find this line of thinking highly questionable, I cannot see how unquestionable value can be proved in this. If you say you have intrinsic value, and I say I don't, who is to say who is right? Because the only standard of value is derived by your own reasoning, I can question your reason logically, and what you say is value of life is highly questionable...........In fact, if you say life has value simply because you say it does, I totally reject that idea and by your logic I see no reason to say life has unquestionable value.

Strycora

Con

I find subjective meaning in my life, so I find it valuable. If you come and kill me, that's mean.
Debate Round No. 2
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

You are subject to death, you are imprisoned in your body under death penalty and condemned to die, I have no reason to kill you and if I did, I would not have to because I know death is taking you anyways. Whatever subjective meaning you find in your life does not prove unquestionable value. Since death is guaranteed for you, whatever subjective meaning you find is not unquestionable value since all the value is lost in death. You may find subjective meaning valuable, but it's value is not unquestionable.

Can you explain how the subjective meaning you find proves unquestionable value if God did not create all things?

Strycora

Con

Of course I'm subject to death. That's why I had better hurry up and make this life worth my while. Doesn't mean you have the right to kill me.

Of course the value of life is questionable; we question it all the time. Doesn't mean that it isn't of any value. We all have the capacity to find subjective meaning. Life would even be of questionable value if there were a God that created all things: We could ask him "Why did you create us?" Your entire premise is absurd.

I use the time I have to be happy by sticking to the principles I have created for myself based on the belief that I am one with all other beings as part of existence itself. I try to show compassion for all beings and connect with others. I try to do the right thing based on how I'd like to be treated myself. I try to let go of my anger, hatred, greed, and jealousy so that I might live in peace.

Life would be miserable if I didn't strive to find meaning and value. But I do strive, so I'm happy.

I really don't understand what you're asking. I'm free to enjoy life. It doesn't have unquestionable value, so I make sure that it does have value.

I believe that one day there will be nothing left. That there is something now can be of great value if I choose to see it that way.

Honestly, what the hell kind of debate is this???
Debate Round No. 3
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

If you decide it's worth your while to try to kill me, then I think you would be giving me the right to kill you before you kill me. That's called war. But we are at peace, so let's focus on the subject here, does life have unquestionable value if God did not create all things?

My opponent has admitted "Of course the value of life is questionable; we question it all the time."

This is the entire point of my argument. Whatever meaning we derive for life, the value is questionable is the value does not come from an unquestionable source. Subjective meaning does not imply unquestionable value. One person may find subjective meaning in pleasure or in aesthetics, but does that mean the value of life is gone the moment pleasure and enjoyment of aethetic quality s gone? That moment of loss can come at any time, so all of whey we thought had value is lost and has no value because it's gone?


So my opponent now asserts ". Life would even be of questionable value if there were a God that created all things: We could ask him "Why did you create us?"

Either way, my opponent is aggreeing that life has no unquestionable value is God did not create all things. If God did create all things and my opponent still finds life's value to be questionable, my opponent has only strenthened the poition that life has no unquestionable value if God did not create all things.

What my opponent is actually proving to be absurd is the idea that the feeling of or belief in subjective meaning implies unquestionable value. Subjective meaning implies no unquestionable value for life.


As a conclusion for this round, I'll adrees my opponent's conclusion in his last arguement.........What gives you the right to ask questions in the name of Hell? Do you have unquestionable value to ask in the name of Hell what kind of debate this is? You are supposed to be arguing in favor of unquestionable value of life but you keep on agreeing with me repeatedly that you see no unquestionable value in it.
Strycora

Con

Not straying from the topic.

If we take a look at the value of life from an economic standpoint, we can see just how absurd the very idea of an "Unquestionable Source" really is.

If I'm walking down the street and I see an artesan trying to sell a painted clay vase...

I think it's absolutely beautiful, priceless, even, and certainly worth at least half a million dollars! I tell the artesan that I will not accept this vase for any less than that price. Tears of joy come streaming down His eyes. He meant to sell it for mere hundreds! I give him a supafat check, and I take the vase. We are both ecstatic; I have the vase of my dreams, and the artesan is a rich man.

I think it's horribly made! The design is boring, the shaping is clumsy, and the paint is dull. I wouldn't pay FIVE dollars for such a piece of trash! I laugh at the artesan and his joke of a vase, and strut off. A tear comes to His eye. His feelings are deeply hurt that something that he took pride in is seen as worthless by another. I am dissatisfied because I would have still liked to buy a vase if there were a nice one available.

...When I get home with my half-million dollar vase, I drop it and it shatters. I'm devastated! I do everything I can to put it back together, and I even bring the fragments back to the artesan to see if he can help. He obliges, but he says that he'll have to teach me how to use this special crack-sealant that He has invented. Together, we fix the vase, and though it is now somewhat flawed, when I bring it back home, it's worth even more to me. I keep it in my trophy case with a beautiful rose inside.

Hadn't I cared about the vase in the first place I would have just dropped it and shrugged it off.

The value of anything is up to the consumer. If I believe that life has value because, and only because God says it does, that's arbitrary and not very critical of me.

If we find value in life, we will cherish it, and make good use of it, keeping it in good shape.

/nochars
Debate Round No. 4
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

My opponent has painted some beautiful pictures, but not shown anyting of unquestionable value. Again my opponent agrees with me in saying there is no unquestionalbe value if God did not create all things...."
"" we can see just how absurd the very idea of an "Unquestionable Source" really is. In this debate there is no need for me or Con to assert that unquestionable value comes only from God's placement of value. The debate is about whether or not there is unquestionable value if God did not create all things, and my opponent has repeatedly agreed that the idea of unquestionable value is absurd so there is no unquestionable value if God did not create all things.


"The value of anything is up to the consumer."

"If we find value in life, we will cherish it, and make good use of it, keeping it in good shape."


My opponent makes these assertions but does not claim to be showing unquestionable value, in keeping with his previous arguments that life has no unquestionable value he can speak of. If the consumer places a value on something, I may find value questionable and I probably won't buy it.

What happens when we can no longer keep life in good shape? At that point, life's value is questionable if God did not create it......my opponent says life is , and is it worth it to continue through terrible pain, suffering, grief, torture?


My opponent asserts life's value is questionable if God created all things or not. My opponent is agreeing with me that life has no unquestionable value if God did not create all things. My opponent has clearly agreed with me repeatedly in statments of his such as "Of course the value of life is questionable; we question it all the time. "

Remember, the challenge of this debate was for my opponent to show unquestionable value of life if God did not create all things. My opponent has repeatedly agreed with me and has shown no unquestionable value of life.
Strycora

Con

Alright, I admit that Pro got me on a technicality. Everything is always questionable. Even God can't change that.
Debate Round No. 5
443 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Strycora 2 years ago
Strycora
Bet you're just seething at how hard I am to talk to;)
Posted by Strycora 2 years ago
Strycora
I've thought of new arguments in/since talking to you. If you want to have a remach (same resolution) let's do it, I'll crush you.
Posted by Strycora 2 years ago
Strycora
And you can say that I use 3 year old logic all you want: you only say that because you have no substantial refutation. Not everything that three year olds say is wrong.

Three year olds are new to life: they don't understand separation; it doesn't exist where they come from. The deeper we become entrenched into life, the more we become deluded into thinking that we are separate from the universe.

We did not com into this universe, we came out of it.
Posted by Strycora 2 years ago
Strycora
You know deep down that Buddhism is a philosophy and a metaphysic whereas Chrisitianity is a religion and that if we discussed which one was philosophically more plausible, I would make you look like an idiot.
Posted by Strycora 2 years ago
Strycora
If you were really trying to change my views, you would've reached across the isle just a little bit. Maybe you would've challengednme to a debate about buman nature, or discussed evil with me philosophically. You had many options.

You know why I think you preach so hard? You're insecure.
Posted by Strycora 2 years ago
Strycora
You're a joke. I tried to have a rational conversation with you, but you just wouldn't have it.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 2 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
I'm going to give up on you and let you take over.....I dont think anybody is watching this anymore anyways, and you are dead set in your belief that you have the right to be free from punishment because you exist. Your blood is on your own head, I tried to warn you.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 2 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
you lost! what do you care? you believe you are returning to nothingness from which you came, so what does it matter if you lose this debate? You lost. You agreed with me repeatedly and then conceded that life has no unquestionable value is God did not create all things. I can't help it if you believe your life is not unquestionably valuable.
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 2 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
you lost the debate because you conceded repeatedly that life has no unquestionable value if God did not create all things. Thank you. Please read the following carefully..........if you say there is no God who created all things, life's value certainly is questionable. God values life and especially His creatures which he endowed with free will, reasoning, and creative powers like His because He is good and He enjoys Himself and He enjoys all of His creatures who do what He designed them to do, to enjoy the freedom He gave them honorably, and to give their Creator all of the honor and glory for the life He gave them.

Why should a man complain about the punishment for his sins? God does not willingly afflict or grieve people. He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. All who are turned against Him will be turned into the fire of Hell. God is not willing that any shoudl perish, but that all should come to repentance. Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

Life Means God is Good!!!!! That is why it's value is unquestionable!!! For crying out loud, repent and believe on the LORD JESUS CHRIST and you will be saved from the fire of Hell!! God Himself (Jesus Christ) died in your place to pay for your crimes against Him and rose from the dead so He is just to punish your violations of His holy law with the fire of Hell if you reject His payment for your sins and you refuse His offer of pardon through the blood he paid with for you......God's gift offer is eternal life, salvation from the fire of Hell which we all deserve! Recieve the LORD JESUS CHRIST as your Saviour through faith and you will be a child of God and heaven.

Let me know if I can help you pray about this.
Posted by Strycora 2 years ago
Strycora
But you knew you couldn't prove that in a debate, so you changed the resolution to this.
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by ben671176 2 years ago
ben671176
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Reasons for voting decision: I'm Christian. And also that Con gave up in the end.
Vote Placed by Phoenix61397 2 years ago
Phoenix61397
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Reasons for voting decision: Concession
Vote Placed by Xanxus 2 years ago
Xanxus
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Reasons for voting decision: I felt that Pro had the more convincing arguments in this case.
Vote Placed by Romanii 2 years ago
Romanii
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Reasons for voting decision: Concession in round 5...
Vote Placed by ChosenWolff 2 years ago
ChosenWolff
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Reasons for voting decision: Concession
Vote Placed by YamaVonKarma 2 years ago
YamaVonKarma
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Reasons for voting decision: The very premise of this debate flaws it. Point to Con. Neither side used sources. Tying grammar, because both messed up certain parts.
Vote Placed by Double_R 2 years ago
Double_R
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Reasons for voting decision: Con accepted the debate despite the fact that the resolution was clear. His round 5 speaks for itself.
Vote Placed by Sagey 2 years ago
Sagey
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Reasons for voting decision: The Debate itself is somewhat of a Fallacy, since Pro cannot sustain his BOP, that Life or anything for that matter has unquestionable value as stated concisely by Con, thus making Con's argument more rational. The only time anything is unquestionable is if those with Life do not have an individual Mind to call their own. Pro makes me wonder about that concerning himself. Pro's entire argument is fallacious and entirely Irrational. Certainly did not prove anything is unquestionable. We have a mind that evolved to question everything, even those that silly people deem unquestionable. Science is about questioning seemingly unquestionable, Galileo questioned what others considered unquestionable (The Bible) and all those refusing to question the unquestionable were proven Wrong.