The Instigator
BillBonJovi
Pro (for)
Tied
13 Points
The Contender
Mac
Con (against)
Tied
13 Points

Light Yagami became a Shinigami in the Death Note Anime after his Death

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/20/2010 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 24,529 times Debate No: 12795
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (5)
Votes (5)

 

BillBonJovi

Pro

Light Yagami got reincarnated as a Shinigami after his Death and because the 8th rule of the Death note says "The human who uses the notebook can neither go to Heaven nor Hell." That suggested they can go to the Shinigami realm.

In the Death Note Anime film; Death Note Relight 1: Visions of a God, an unnamed Shinigami meets Ryuk and asks him to tell his story about when he went to the human world...
Below a video that shows the meeting:

This Shinigami must be the reincarnation of Light Yagami. This is due to the following pieces of evidence (that can be seen in the video reference above):
-The coat he wears looks very similar to the one Light was wearing when he died.
-He walks up stairs to meet Ryuk, which could be seen as a subtle reference to Light's death in the Anime.
-The way he tosses the apple to Ryuk, as Light did when alive.
-A red tie (which looks like Light's) is wrapped around the Shinigami's head.
-The Shinigami walks into a bright flash of light at the top of the stairs.
-The fact that he inexplicably knows Ryuk's love for apples without asking the other Shinigami.
-The fact that Ryuk says "Light" after the Unnamed Shinigami leaves.
-The red eyes that in the anime shows Light's 'Kira' personality.
-He carries a scythe, similar to how Light does in some pieces of artwork. A bit like this one: http://ecx.images-amazon.com...
-The limp displayed while walking up the stairs is similar to the way Light limped out of the warehouse as seen in the Anime.
-The Shinigami's mouth is shaped like Light's "Kira" smile.
-The Unnamed Shinigami does not stay to hear the end of Ryuk's story, yet he is very interested about the human world... If he is the reincarnation of Light, he knows how the story ends and does not want or need to hear about it.
-The Shinigami sports a messenger bag almost identical to the one Light often carried with him in Season One.

Now it can't be co-incidence that this is just another ordinary Shinigami. That fact that it has all those Light Yagami features means the Death Note Anime makers intended to make this Shinigami to be the reincarnation of Light Yagami. If it wasn't meant to be Light Yagami then the Death Note anime makers wouldn't have given it all those Light Yagami features.

I'll end my first stage here...
Mac

Con

I would like to thank BillBonJovi for the debate. I am an avid Death Note fan myself.

Firstly, Pro asserts that Light became a Shinigami after his death because the 8th rule of the Death Note states that: "The human who uses the notebook can neither go to Heaven nor Hell," meaning that he went to the Shiigami realm when he died. However, rule number eight of the Death Note does not mean that the user of the Death Note has a chance to go to the Shinigami realm when they die. What the 8th rule really implies, is that there's no afrlteife, meaning that there's no Heaven or Hell. This means that Death Note users and non-Death Note enter a mental state of nothingness when they die. Many who don't believe in the after-life can understand this.

The final rules in the Death Note are:

1) All humans, without exception, will eventually die.
2) When they die they go to MU (nothingness).
3) All humans, no matter what they do in life, will go to the same place after they die. All humans are equal in death.
4) Once dead, they can never come back to life.

Rule Source: http://deathnote.wikia.com...

The 3rd rule stated that all humans are equal in death, such that every human will go neither to Heaven or Hell after death. Since Light was human, that rule also applies to him. Every human is equal in death, no exceptions.

The video that Pro sourced was a deleted scene/director's cut from the anime. This means that this scene cannot be applied to the plot of the anime. The director may have cut the scene because if that Shinigami was Light, that would be a plot hole, regarding the fact that all humans go to MU/nothingness after death. Since we know that the deleted scene cannot be applied to canon, we can dismiss Pro's physical comparisons of Light to the unidentified Shinigami in the video.
Debate Round No. 1
BillBonJovi

Pro

Mac thanks very much for being part of this debate

Now please bear in mind that I am talking about the Death Note ANIME, and not the MANGA. I have reason to believe that the ANIME and the MANGA are two different realities.
Comparing the Anime and Manga there are slight differences and leads me to believe that makers of the anime wanted to adapt the Manga towards their own satisfactions. Satisfactions that wanted Light Yagami to have an Afterlife (as a Shinigami). The evidence for this belief is below:

-Now all of this MU (Nothingness) evidence you explained was only ever actually mentioned in the Death Note Manga. It was not once mentioned in the Anime at all.

-In the Manga ending Light's death all takes place in the warehouse where he was finally unmasked as Kira, and it's where Ryuk says to light that all Humans go to "MU (Nothingness)". I reference this ending here: http://read.mangashare.com...
However in the Anime ending Light escapes the warehouse and later dies on a stairway and Ryuk's statement of "MU (Nothingness)" was not said at all... WHY?
Because the Death Note Anime makers wanted Light to have an afterlife, so they ended it in a way that made all this "MU (Nothingness)" Obsolete in the Anime. I reference the Anime ending with the youtube video provided above:

-Furthermore throughout the Anime series of Death Note there are numerous scenes where Light is shown with his eyes glowing like Shinigami eyes, even though he never made the Shinigami eye deal. Like shown here:
http://i470.photobucket.com...
This implies that he had maybe become part Shinigami or somehow brought into a covenant with the Shinigami realm. What other explanation is there for him having all these scenes with shinigami eyes? I don't think he was ever seen with shinigami eyes in the Death Note Manga...

...

The topic of my argument is that Light Yagami became a Shinigami in the Death note Anime (and not the Manga). The anime makers made it to their own satisfactions and I guess you can say that they dishonoured the Manga, but it was still enough for them to create their own reality of Death Note.

...

The Shinigami seen in the footage I provided from ‘Death Note Relight 1: Visions of a God' is clearly meant to be the reincarnation of Light Yagami with the afterlife the anime makers wanted him to have. Now Con's complaint about my video source being a ‘deleted scene' showing the Shinigami Light was quite good... but not good enough.

It is indeed from the director's cut version of ‘Death Note Relight 1: Visions of a God' but the fact that the footage was put back into the theatrical cut and re-released as the director's cut for the public to buy on DVD (instead of being part of the DVD's bonus features) suggests that the deleted scene can indeed be applied to the canon.

I live in Great Britain and my country never got the theatrical cut of the film, we only ever got the director's cut. That is more evidence to support that it can be part of the Death Note anime canon.

The reason this footage was originally cut out could be because ‘Death Note Relight 1: Visions of a God' would be too long a film as it was. So at the time the makers cut it out, and a year later regretted the decision and so released the director's cut. There are all kinds of possibilities for this.
Mac

Con

(Watch the videos whenever one of my points tell you to)
I thank Pro for his quick response. Pro did bring up a lot of good points in his argument and the arguments really made me think critically.

"Now all of this MU (Nothingness) evidence you explained was only ever actually mentioned in the Death Note Manga. It was not once mentioned in the Anime at all."

MU (Nothingness) was mentioned in the anime. If you skip and pause at 1:02 in the first video, you can see the rule regarding the existence of MU/Nothingness there. This means that this rule can also apply to the anime's plot.

The rules of the Death Note are applied in the anime and manga. Therefore, the rule regarding MU should be considered in the anime as well. This means that Light would not turn into a Shinigami in the anime as well.

"Furthermore throughout the Anime series of Death Note there are numerous scenes where Light is shown with his eyes glowing like Shinigami eyes, even though he never made the Shinigami eye deal. Like shown here:
http://i470.photobucket.com... "

It is likely that Light's alternating eyes are used for the purpose of representing his character and emotions, than it representing him becoming part Shinigami. The changing eyes seemingly represent Light being a normal and sane (brown eyes) to a psychotic and evil killer (red eyes). You also see Light's hair turn red and L's hair turn blue at times too (this is prominent in the anime's first opening). This is simply the style of animation, and the purpose of the changing colours is simply to make a scene appear more dramatic to suit the atmosphere of a scene.

"It is indeed from the director's cut version of ‘Death Note Relight 1: Visions of a God' but the fact that the footage was put back into the theatrical cut and re-released as the director's cut for the public to buy on DVD (instead of being part of the DVD's bonus features) suggests that the deleted scene can indeed be applied to the canon."

Since Pro assert that the scene is canon to the anime, I will now attempt to prove that the Shinigami wasn't Light.

While the unidentified Shinigami does share similar characteristics with Light, that doesn't mean that he's the Shinigami. In my previous points, I proved that the rule regarding MU/Nothingness also applies to the anime, not only the manga. That unidentified Shinigami in the video said: "I want to go to the human world. I'm tired of this sluggish world. I heard the human world was interesting." If Light was a Shinigami, then that Shinigami wouldn't have asked to go to the human world. Light would have tried to change the Shinigami realm as a Shinigami. If you skip to 6:28 of the second video, you can hear Light say that the Shinigami realm should be changed for the better since the it was rotting.
Debate Round No. 2
BillBonJovi

Pro

Con at 1:02 in the video source you posted, Mu (Nothingness) is indeed mentioned, but it was only a title screen clip (like many more title screen clips shown throughout the anime episodes). They are nothing more than quotes from the Manga, probably included to make things more interesting. I do not think a single clip like that is convincing enough to alter the possible Anime reality.

But for the moment let's say that it is (we'll play it your way for now)...

Now one thing I bet Con didn't think about is that the Shinigami realm, is also a kind of MU (Nothingness)...
The quote at 1:02 of Con's first video reference said "All humans will, without exception, eventually die. After they die, the place the go to is MU (Nothingness)".

This particular rule can very well apply to being sent to the Shinigami Realm. In this realm, 'living' means having an empty existence of what appears to be NOTHINGNESS amidst the grey, grunge and greed of the Shinigami Realm. That is something I recalled from the Death Note Manga stated here: http://read.mangashare.com...

But of course my argument is about the Anime and not the Manga. I'll use your second video as a reference source for that:
#!

At 5:20 - 5:45 of the video Ryuk says to Light:
"The shinigami realm is slowly rotting, really meaningless and empty lives, and the only reason we still take human lives is because we're afraid to die ourselves. In fact the truth of the matter is that we no longer even know why we exist. In fact, I doubt there is any reason for out existence at all. What I'm saying is that compared to that your becoming a much more impressive Shinigami."
That is very good evidence to suggest that the Shinigami realm is another kind of MU (nothingness). And can be a Purgatory for Death note users.
-
The Shinigami Realm itself could indeed be a Purgatory. I'll explain what a Purgatory is using the Purgatory off Wikipedia as a reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Purgatory refers to the realm where souls go when they have lived a life that is, morally, neither right nor wrong. When most people die, they are judged and go to Heaven or Hell. However, in the case of those who do not choose a clear path of right or wrong, they are sent to Purgatory. In this world, souls exist in a morally grey area which is less divine than Heaven, but more righteous than heathens which are sent to Hell.

Now I will compare the logic I just explained with the Death Note reality... The world that Shinigami reside in exists above the human world. For example, Ryuk has to travel underground in order to reach the entrance to the realm of humans underneath. Also, when Ryuk is first seen after leaving the Shinigami Realm, he is flying downward from a higher altitude than the skyscrapers. So the Shinigami Realm could very be a Purgatory for the Human world. This can explain what happens after death to humans that have used a Death Note, as this particular Purgatory (Mu) is neither good nor evil.

Here is a reference to what the Shinigami Realm is like: http://deathnote.wikia.com...
And also In Death Note, Purgatory can also be acknowledged as being analogous with the Shinigami Realm because of that fact that both are grey realms where beings exist in a cold world, filled with grunge and grime, absent of any light.

Now as I kept saying I believe the Death Note Anime makers adapted the Death Note Manga to satisfy their own satisfactions. The Purgatory information I just explained above goes in the Anime maker's advantage. They can indeed take advantage of that logic and I think they did. Regardless of how the Manga went that they chose to dishonour maybe.

...

Also in case you didn't notice there is also a hint of Light becoming a Shinigami in that video. When talking about the eye trade at 5:00 - 5:17 it goes:

Light: "Anyway If I keep bargaining for eyes and wings and whatever else, next thing you know I'm gonna end up becoming a real Shinigami. Though who knows that could be pretty interesting."
Ryuk: "I wouldn't worry. Even without the eyes and the wings. You're already a WORTHY Shinigami."

This implies that it is possible that the MU rule no longer had a lot to do with Light and he then somehow had been brought into a covenant with the Shinigami realm are no longer classed as fully Human. Also nobody knows how Shinigami are created; it could be possible they were all once Human Death Note users like Light. I think so.
...
Now about Con's final paragraph, Con said:
"That unidentified Shinigami in the video said: "I want to go to the human world. I'm tired of this sluggish world. I heard the human world was interesting." If Light was a Shinigami, then that Shinigami wouldn't have asked to go to the human world. Light would have tried to change the Shinigami realm as a Shinigami. If you skip to 6:28 of the second video, you can hear Light say that the Shinigami realm should be changed for the better since the it was rotting."

It was a good paragraph but I think Con has misunderstood my argument. My argument is that the Shinigami seen in the footage I provided from ‘Death Note Relight 1: Visions of a God' is clearly meant to be the REINCARNATION of Light Yagami.

I'll use Wikipedia as a reference source for Reincarnation:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Reincarnation is believed to occur when the soul or spirit, after the death of the body, comes back to Earth (or in this case a purgatory) in a newborn body. This phenomenon is also known as transmigration of the soul. Now I'm sure most people know that a Reincarnated being does not likely have memory of its former life. If the Shinigami seen in Death Note Relight 1 is the re-born Light Yagami then it has no memories of its former life either.

Or then again maybe it does has it's memories and wants to go to the Human world to take revenge and kill L's successor Near for catching him when he was human. If I was Light Yagami I would do that. As far as I know Near was considered to be an annoying character and Kira fans watching the Anime would have loved to see him die. Maybe the Anime makers wanted them to think that was the reason the Light Yagami Shinigami was going to the human world to kill some boredom by taking revenge or something.
...
Now from what I said so far my argument still stands. The Death Note Anime makers have adapted the Death Manga towards their own satisfactions. The Shinigami that meets Ryuk in the film Death Note Relight 1 is meant to be the Reincarnation of Light Yagami.

P.S. I just want to say that the video source reference I provided in the first round... is not actually a deleted scene. It is actually the opening and ending the Japanese Death Note Relight 1 Directors cut. It appears that the uploaded of the YouTube video has just simply called it a Deleted scene because it was new footage that was released at the time. Unfortunately it was the only online footage of the Ryuk and Light Shinigami meeting that I could find at the time.
Mac

Con

"They are nothing more than quotes from the Manga, probably included to make things more interesting. I do not think a single clip like that is convincing enough to alter the possible Anime reality."

REBUTTAL: The clips of the rules are definitely not there to make the anime appear more "interesting." The screen clips of the rules are there to inform the audience about how the Death Note works and how the rules can be enforced in the anime's plot.

Rules such as:
1.If the cause of death is written within the next 40 seconds of writing the person's name, it will happen.
2.If the cause of death is not specified, the person will simply die of a heart attack.

Were included in screen clips of the anime in the first episodes, and are there not to make it more "interesting," but to show how the Death Note works. For example, people die within 40 seconds of thier name being written in the Death Note in the anime. Light did not specify the deaths of the many criminals he killed, thus they died of heart attacks. It would fallacious to disregard the last rules regarding MU/Nothingness as obsolete when all of the other Death Note rules in the manga were regarded in the anime as well.

"Ryuk: "I wouldn't worry. Even without the eyes and the wings. You're already a WORTHY Shinigami."
This implies that it is possible that the MU rule no longer had a lot to do with Light and he then somehow had been brought into a covenant with the Shinigami realm are no longer classed as fully Human. Also nobody knows how Shinigami are created; it could be possible they were all once Human Death Note users like Light."

REBUTTAL: Shinigami can be translated as "Death God." Shinigamis are like Grim Reapers, in the sense that they go around and kill people. Ryuk referring Light as a worthy Shinigami does not imply that he will or would become an actual Shinigami. The role of a Shinigami is to kill humans with their Death Notes and that's exactly what Light did; kill humans with his Death Note. This doesn't mean that he would turn into an actual Shinigami, it just means that he was playing the role of a Shinigami as a human.
Later in my next point, I will explain why reincarnation cannot be possible in the Death Note universe.

"This particular rule can very well apply to being sent to the Shinigami Realm. In this realm, 'living' means having an empty existence of what appears to be NOTHINGNESS amidst the grey, grunge and greed of the Shinigami Realm. That is something I recalled from the Death Note Manga stated here: http://read.mangashare.com...;

REBUTTAL: My opponent claims that the Shinigami realm can be MU/Nothingness. If Light went to the Shinigami realm after he died, this means that /everyone/ in the world would go to the Shinigami realm because of theses rule:
1.When they die they go to MU (nothingness).
2.All humans, no matter what they do in life, will go to the same place after they die. All humans are equal in death.
Every human goes to MU (Nothingness) and if the Shinigami realm /was/ MU, then there should billions upon billions of Shinigami in the Shinigami realm because billions of humans have died throughout the history of mankind. There are only a few Shinigami in the realm, compared to the billions that should be there. Hence, it the Shinigami realm isn't a place where all humans go to in the afterlife. According to Dictionary.com, MU (Nothingness) can be described as:
1.The state of being nothing.
2.Something that is nonexistent: a view of humanity as suspended between infinity and nothingness.
Definition source: http://dictionary.reference.com...
When a human dies, their bodies stop working and their bodies eventually decompose. They will no longer exist; they will enter a state of nothingness. This is what MU (Nothingness) can mean in the Death Note series. Being existing and being conscious as a Shinigami in the Shinigami realm isn't exactly "nothingness."

"Purgatory refers to the realm where souls go when they have lived a life that is, morally, neither right nor wrong. When most people die, they are judged and go to Heaven or Hell. However, in the case of those who do not choose a clear path of right or wrong, they are sent to Purgatory. In this world, souls exist in a morally grey area which is less divine than Heaven, but more righteous than heathens which are sent to Hell."

REBUTTAL: In this point, Pro contends that Light (and other Death Note users) go to the Shinigami Realm, a Purgatory because they using a Death Note can be either morally wrong or right depending on one's perception. Light indeed did not have a clear moral path of right or wrong by killing off criminals who harmed innocent people. My opponent asserts that Light was sent to the Shinigami realm because Light lived a life of doing neither right or wrong, thus a purgatory would be a suitable place for him to be after death. While this may sound logical in a sense, this notion completely contradicts this rule in the Death Note:

1. All humans, no matter what they do in life, will go to the same place after they die. All humans are equal in death.
http://deathnote.wikia.com...

In the Death Note universe, where you go in the afterlife is NOT dictated by whether you've done good or bad while being alive in the human world. By this logic, a person who murders seven people and commits suicide afterwards goes to the same place after death as a baby who was killed by that same person. That murderer would not go to Hell, that baby would not go to Heaven and Light would not get reincarnated into the Shinigami realm/purgatory. This means also that reincarnation is not possible in the Death Note universe because all deaths are considered equal. In reincarnation, you are reincarnated into a realm of existence depending on what you did and what your desires were when you were alive. In Buddhist reincarnation, you are reincarnated into an animal if you possessed a large amount of stupidity in your previous lives. You go to the Naraka/Hell realm if you were extremely hateful in your previous lives.

Source on reincarnation:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Light can't be reincarnated into a Shinigami because reincarnation is a concept that implies that your afterlife is dictated by who you were as a human. It is made clear in the Death Note rules that everyone is the same in death. Nobody can go to Heaven, Hell, be reincarnated or go to the Shinigami realm/purgatory after death.

The Shinigami realm cannot exist as a purgatory Death Note universe because the concept would be similar to that of Heaven and Hell. Heaven and Hell does not exist in the series. Therefore, a middle-place cannot exist as a realm in the afterlife.

While I do agree with Pro that the unidentified Shinigami lappears a lot like the reincarnated version of Light, the purpose of this debate is to argue whether or not that Shinigami was really Light by using reasoning. It's simply not good enough to claim that the Shinigami was Light because "the directors wanted it that way, and that's that." The reasoning that I provided in my points above argues why it's not logical for Light to be reincarnated into a Shinigami. That Shinigami doesn't have to be Light just because it was there.

I eagerly await for my opponent's response.
Debate Round No. 3
BillBonJovi

Pro

I don't think Con carefully read my argument posted in the third stage.

In response to Con's first REBUTTAL:
Con just so you know I was not regarding the rules displayed in the screen clips as irrelevant... (That was the impression you seemed give off of what you thought I meant when you write your first REBUTTAL).

I was just saying just because one of them said "All humans, without exception, will eventually die. When they die they go to MU (nothingness)" doesn't mean that has a convincing effect on the Anime reality.

Yes indeed they are there to show how it works, I know that! That can still be regarded as making it "interesting" which is partly what I was trying to say.
Now I agree with Con that the clips of the rules are there to show to how it works, but like I kept saying the Anime is only BASED on the Manga. Therefore it doesn't have to be the same reality.
Once again look at the end rule in this link: http://deathnote.wikia.com...

Now in we learnt in the Manga that the End rule starts off saying:
"All humans, without exception, will eventually die. When they die they go to MU (nothingness)".
Then we've learnt that there is a bit more that came after that which said:
"All humans, no matter what they do in life, will go to the same place after they die. All humans are equal in death. Once dead, they can never come back to life".

Now that bit was never shown in the Anime, and if that bit was shown then Con's argument may be leaping high.
However due to that fact that the anime maker's didn't include it means it cannot be confirmed as true in the anime. Once again that goes in the advantage of the Anime makers to have Light Yagami reincarnated as a Shinigami.

One thing I'd just like to point out is that where the end rule says "Once dead, they can never come back to life" that isn't exactly true. In the Death Note Pilot Manga it is learnt that there is a Death Note eraser that can be used to wipe out a written name in a Death Note and bring the victim back to life. So I think that implies that the End rule may not be all that genuine after all.
Reference here: http://deathnote.wikia.com...
...
Within Con's third REBUTTAL, Con said:
"Every human goes to MU (Nothingness) and if the Shinigami realm /was/ MU, then there should billions upon billions of Shinigami in the Shinigami realm because billions of humans have died throughout the history of mankind."

It appears Con didn't fully read a sentence I said below the paragraph where Con's third REBUTTAL was spawned, and I said:
"That is very good evidence to suggest that the Shinigami realm is ANOTHER kind of MU (nothingness). And can be a Purgatory for Death note users."
What I was saying was that there are 2 kinds of MU (nothingness).
1.Fate for non-Death Note users which is just plain nothingness
2.Fate for humans who have used the Death Note which will be the Shinigami realm. As Ryuk said: "The shinigami realm is slowly rotting, really meaningless and empty lives, and the only reason we still take human lives is because we're afraid to die ourselves. In fact the truth of the matter is that we no longer even know why we exist. In fact, I doubt there is any reason for our existence at all." Which means it can be regarded as another kind of nothingness.

Once again is can be something Death Note anime maker's can take advantage of.
...
In response to Con's forth REBUTTAL, Con basically said that the Shinigami Realm could not be a Purgatory because in order for it to be a Purgatory there would need to be a Heaven and Hell. And in the Death Note universe there is no Heaven and Hell.

A Purgatory doesn't necessarily need a Heaven and Hell in order to exist. The point is that it's clear the Shinigami Realm is linked to the Human world, so it could very well a different kind of Purgatory to what humans know. Anyway with all the supernatural stuff that happens in the Death note universe it's clear that the Shinigami Realm must be some kind of spiritual world like a Purgatory anyway.

As for what Con said about reincarnation Con said:
"In reincarnation, you are reincarnated into a realm of existence depending on what you did and what your desires were when you were alive. In Buddhist reincarnation, you are reincarnated into an animal if you possessed a large amount of stupidity in your previous lives. You go to the Naraka/Hell realm if you were extremely hateful in your previous lives".

Reincarnation can come in many different formats; it doesn't necessarily have to be related to what your desires were when you were alive. Death Note reality reincarnation can indeed be possible for humans that have simply used the Death note.

Do bear in mind that Shinigami are Death Gods and main speciality is KILLING. Light Yagami was a Killer who desired to kill as many people as he could that he thought were better off dead. So the Shinigami realm can indeed be realm of existence for him depending on what he did and what his desires were when he was alive. It seems to suit him.
...
Now let's recap on what my point of view is... due to the differences that the Death Note Anime has to the Death Note Manga (such as the different ending where fate of Death Note user is not explained). It seems very likely that the makers of the Death Note Anime wanted to adapt the Manga towards their own satisfactions. Satisfactions that wanted Light Yagami to have an Afterlife (as a Shinigami). I have explained as many facts of the Death Note reality as I could that would be in favour of the Anime maker's taking advantage of to make it plausible of Light Yagami becoming a Shinigami.

The result of that was the unnamed Shinigami seen in film Death Note Relight 1: Visions of a God. This is the film I'm talking about: http://www.nt2099.com...

Now let's recap what is known about the Shinigami seen in the film:
This Shinigami must be the reincarnation of Light Yagami. This is due to the following pieces of evidence (that can be seen in the video reference above):
-The coat he wears looks very similar to the one Light was wearing when he died.
-He walks up stairs to meet Ryuk, which could be seen as a subtle reference to Light's death in the Anime.
-The way he tosses the apple to Ryuk, as Light did when alive.
-A red tie (which looks like Light's) is wrapped around the Shinigami's head.
-The Shinigami walks into a bright flash of light at the top of the stairs.
-The fact that he inexplicably knows Ryuk's love for apples without asking the other Shinigami.
-The fact that Ryuk says "Light" after the Unnamed Shinigami leaves.
-The red eyes that in the anime shows Light's 'Kira' personality.
-He carries a scythe, similar to how Light does in some pieces of artwork.
-The limp displayed while walking up the stairs is similar to the way Light limped out of the warehouse as seen in the Anime.
-The Shinigami's mouth is shaped like Light's "Kira" smile.
-The Shinigami sports a messenger bag almost identical to the one Light often carried with him in Season One.
This is a picture of it: http://media.giantbomb.com...

Now with all those similarities IT'S CLEARLY MEANT TO BE THE REINCARNATION OF LIGHT YAGAMI.
IT'S RIDULAS FOR IT NOT TO BE!
IF IT'S NOT MEANT TO BE LIGHT YAGAMI THEN WHY DOES IT HAVE ALL THOSE SIMILARITIES?
Why couldn't the Shinigami have been some big slug creature or psycho cookie monster or a furry kind of Chewbacca or a kind of monkey on weed?

For some reason it had to be a lot like Light Yagami, most likely because it is meant to be Light Yagami...
You don't need to go deep into the logic of Death Note to be sure if that Shinigami is not meant to be Light Yagami. It is clearly meant to be Light Yagami... I rest my case.
Mac

Con

"I was just saying just because one of them said "All humans, without exception, will eventually die. When they die they go to MU (nothingness)" doesn't mean that has a convincing effect on the Anime reality."

REBUTTAL: The realities of the anime and manga are nearly the same because the rules are the same in both versions. This rule definitely has a dramatic effect on the anime's plot because rules were a crucial part of the anime and the manga.

"One thing I'd just like to point out is that where the end rule says "Once dead, they can never come back to life" that isn't exactly true. In the Death Note Pilot Manga it is elearnt that there is a Death Note eraser that can be used to wipe out a written name in a Death Note and bring th victim back to life. So I think that implies that the End rule may not be all that genuine after all.
Reference here: http://deathnote.wikia.com...;

REBUTTAL: I read that manga chapter regarding the Death Eraser and how it can bring a deceased person back to life. The chapter pertaining to the Death Eraser was made before Death Note became a real manga. It was a draft that was sent to Shonen Jump in order to gain approval for becoming a serialized manga. Thus, the rule that said: "Once dead, they can never come back to life" still applies to the manga and anime. This also indicates that there are NO exceptions in the Death Note rules. In conclusion, the rules of the Death Note cannot be altered in any way. Tsugumi Ohba (Death Note's author) dropped the concept of the Death Eraser because he disliked the idea as a plot device, so the idea of the Death Eraser does not apply to the manga/anime's canon.
http://deathnote.wikia.com...

"What I was saying was that there are 2 kinds of MU (nothingness).
1.Fate for non-Death Note users which is just plain nothingness
2.Fate for humans who have used the Death Note which will be the Shinigami realm."

REBUTTAL: In this point, Pro asserts that Death Note users and non-Death Note users go to different kinds of MU (Nothingness) after they die. This is a clearly invalid argument since the rules in the Death Note state that both Death Note users and non-Death Note users go to the same place after they die. This indicates that they go to the same kind of MU (nothingness) after they die. A Death Note user is no different from a non-Death Note user in terms of death and the afterlife.

"Do bear in mind that Shinigami are Death Gods and main speciality is KILLING. Light Yagami was a Killer who desired to kill as many people as he could that he thought were better off dead. So the Shinigami realm can indeed be realm of existence for him depending on what he did and what his desires were when he was alive. It seems to suit him."

REBUTTAL: Again, the idea of reincarnation would imply that one's afterlife is dictated by one's character and actions. Pro argues that Light might have been reincarnated as an actual Shinigami because he played the role of a Shinigami by killing people as a human. This idea is parallel to Buddhist reincarnation because one is reincarnated into a realm of existence based their character and actions. In Buddhist reincarnation, you are reincarnated as a animal if you were unintelligent or unwise; this idea is very similar to Light being reincarnated as a Shinigami because he killed many people using his Death Note.
In the Death Note universe, reincarnation cannot be possible because every human will enter a state of MU (Nothingness) after death, regardless if they've done good or bad.

Recap: The unidentified Shinigami clearly can't be the reincarnation of Light Yagami. In my arguments, I contended that Light couldn't be that Shinigami because every human being goes enters a condition of MU (Nothingness) after death. This means that it is not possible for a human to be reincarnated as a Shinigami. This Death Note rule: "All humans, no matter what they do in life, will go to the same place after they die. All humans are equal in death." says confirms this. Rule source: http://deathnote.wikia.com... In my earlier points, I also proved that the last rules are applicable to the anime as well as the manga. Additionally, there is no proof that Shinigamis are former Death Note users, especially regarding that reincarnation is not possible in the Death Note universe. The makers of the anime clearly wanted to draw more attention to the anime by creating controversy regarding Light's death and afterlife. In this debate, I have proven that it's not possible for Light to be reincarnated into a Shinigami. Though that unidentified Shinigami shares many traits with Light, it would only make sense to conclude that the Shinigami, was just an ordinary Shinigami who simply inhabited in the Shinigami realm for a long time.

I would like to thank Pro for this interesting debate. I conclude this debate with this picture: http://www.debate.org...
Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by 4tunatecookie 3 years ago
4tunatecookie
This is one of the stronger, more well-researched debates on this website. I cannot believe it's about Death Note. I really appreciated the argument. But I won't vote, because I'm extremely biased against CON. As an avid Light fan, I simply cannot accept his death unless it's accompanied with reincarnation. >8C
Posted by Mac 4 years ago
Mac
Thank you for the debate too. It was quite enjoyable for me as well and it's my first real debate (I was against a noob in my first debate). Hehe, I'd like to debate with you again in the future too. You make pretty good arguments. You did convince me a bit that the Shinigami was Light.
Posted by BillBonJovi 4 years ago
BillBonJovi
Dear Mac, thank you very much for being part of my debate, I have enjoyed it. It is my first debate ever on this website and I am glad to have debuted against a strong opponent like you. Regardless of how the debate ends I'd love to have rematch with you one day about a completely different topic. Thank you very much :)
Posted by sllewuy 4 years ago
sllewuy
i would like this too it seemed he was just talking about a dead friend not to that specific shinigami.
Posted by Mac 4 years ago
Mac
I'd like to take this debate, except it says:
"You cannot accept this challenge because you do not match the Instigator's age and/or rank criteria."

Perhaps you can edit the settings of the debate? :P
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
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