The Instigator
sippinsizzurp
Pro (for)
Losing
31 Points
The Contender
blond_guy
Con (against)
Winning
38 Points

Lil Wayne is currently the best rapper

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/15/2008 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 5,544 times Debate No: 3256
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (25)
Votes (19)

 

sippinsizzurp

Pro

I'm not arguing that Lil Wayne is "the best rapper alive" as many do. I'm simply contending that in todays world of hip-hop music, his songs are unequaled. The songs I'm speaking of start with "The Carter"(2004) and all songs that followed. Because remarkable rapping alone does'nt equate into a good song, Lil Wayne has had some of the best producers in the game make his beats(Mannie Fresh, T-Mix & Batman). The Carter is where he starts to develop a more eloquent flow and since has been rapping with increasing fervor and fluency. His lyrics are fresh and original. His delivery, dramatic and vivacious.

He's also one of the most prolific rappers of today. A testament to this is an article by Vibe title "The 77 Best Lil Wayne Songs Of 2007".

http://www.vibe.com...

Since his debut solo album in 1999 (The Block Is Hot), he has had four more solo albums, with the much anticipated "The Carter III" set to be released this May. He's been on numerous mixtapes(most notably "Dedication 2" and "The Drought 3") and appeared on countless singles with artists ranging from Chris Brown and Wyclef Jean to Fat Joe and Playaz Circle. He even did songs with Enrique Iglesias and Robin Thicke.

His singles aren'nt even his best work. I think unheard of songs like "Nigga Wit Money" and "Zoo" featuring Mack Maine are some of his hottest tracks.

I'm sure there are many obscure rappers out there who can match Weezy on flow and metaphors but he is the most charismatic and successful rapper out there right now. I challenge anyone to name an active rapper alive today who can best Lil Wayne on all points.
blond_guy

Con

<>

Unfortunately, I'm sorry, but I can't do that. However, I will definitely argue that Eminem, 50 Cent or maybe even Papoose are better rappers than Lil' Wayne.
So here are some reasons as to why both 50 Cent and Eminem are better rappers than Lil' Wayne.

1) Both 50 Cent and Eminem sold way more albums than Lil' Wayne. All four of Eminem's albums were No. 1 in sales in America. Eminem's last album sold 441,000 units in its first week, while in the same week, Lil' Wayne sold 240,000. While some people say that sales don't matter, I believe there's no better way to compare rappers than to see which sold the most.

2) The link you provided showed that more than 25% of Lil Wayne's best songs are in records in which he only has one verse. Furthermore, his top song is"We're takin' over". No doubt that that's a successful record, but Lil Wayne has a 35 second verse in a 5 minute record. And "We the Best" by Dj Khaled, the album that carried the "We're takin' over" record, sold only 79,000 copies in its first week.
Meanwhile, 50 Cent's hottest song(s) include, "Many Men", "In Da Club", "I Get Money", "Candy Shop", "Amusement Park", and many more. All of these songs were written by him and only him, and he raps throughout the WHOLE song. 50 Cent's first album sold 8 MILLION copies in the U.S. alone.
Finally, Eminem's singles are also sung by only him, and his record sales more than double Lil Wayne's. Eminem sold 1,760,049 copies in his first week of his first album alone.

This only explains that Lil' Wayne is dependent on other rappers to make hits, and even those hits are far from Eminem's or 50 Cent's hits.

<>

Try comparing that to Dr. Dre, known for working with Tupac's best records. Unless you think Lil' Wayne is better than Tupac, then we can discuss that too.

<>

50 Cent worked with Justin Timberlake, Robin Thicke, Busta Rhymes, the whole G-unit, Nas, Papoose, Lil' Kim, Akon, Eminem, etc...
Eminem has worked with Dido, Akon, 50 Cent, Nate Dogg, G-unit, D12, Elton John, Marilyn Manson, etc...
And those were still not their best songs. Eminem and 50 Cent do better alone than with other rappers, and that proves them to be better than all of them.

<>

Well that's your opinion. But to be a good rapper you need millions of people to love your songs enough to buy the album. And Lil' Wayne doesn't have that.

<>

Charismatic? Birdman basically owns him, Cassidy hates him, 50 Cent hates him, Papoose hates him, Jay-Z hates him.
Lil' Wayne has ghostwriters. I can't prove it but it's obvious that Gillie Da Kid has written stuff for him, and who knows if anybody else in Cash Money records has too.
While 50 Cent and Eminem are so great that they had to expand into D12, G-unit, G-unit records, Shady Records, to help other artists with their songs, Lil Wayne is taking classes from other rappers.
Debate Round No. 1
sippinsizzurp

Pro

sippinsizzurp forfeited this round.
blond_guy

Con

Gun to mind
Mind to gun
Define which one is the surviving one
You say to mind your means is surviving
Define it son
Rappers use their mind
Since the mind behind the gun
The mind refines the dumb
Guarding them for time to come

Drop it son

Gun to mind
Mind to gun
Define which one is the surviving one
You say guns is your means to surviving
Define it son
Where you get your power from when drama comes?
Behind the gun
Power is money
Money is power

Drop it son

---Drop it son, by Papoose featuring Busta Rhymes
Debate Round No. 2
sippinsizzurp

Pro

<>

"Unfortunately, I'm sorry, but I can't do that."

That's quite alright and I accept your apology. However, your arguments claiming that 50 Cent and Eminem are superior to Lil Wayne are flawed, in that you employ commercial success instead of rapping ability as a proof that they in fact are currently better rappers. Furthermore, I consider Eminem ineligible as a rival to Lil Wayne as best current rapper considering he has been on hiatus for the past few years. Also, by CURRENT I imply recent popularity and recognition in which Eminem is definitely lacking.

As for "fiddy", who has been admittedly successful in album sales and other financial ventures, he is nonetheless deficient in the characteristics that make a great(not just successful) rapper. His faltering, monotonal mumbling is only outdone by his uninspired and witless lyrics.

As for listing numerous people your two artists have worked with, this is pointless being that Lil Waynes collaborations eclipse those of 50 cent and Eminem both in multitude and prestige.

"...to be a good rapper you need millions of people to love your songs enough to buy the album. And Lil' Wayne doesn't have that."

This statement is both unsound and just plain incorrect. I disagree that rap skills and album sales hold a strong correlation; case in point, Soulja Boy. Even so, millions of people do, in fact, love Lil Waynes songs enough to buy his albums.

In the matter of your last point, questioning Waynes charisma and listing rappers who dislike him, you've completely strayed from the initial argument. Despite your digression, you did choose a splendid verse by Papoose in your second argument. Indeed I would say Papoose approaches Lil Waynes ability, it's too bad you made no case for him. But to counter, here's a little something I happened to be listening to while writing this.

Drag my name through the mud
I come out clean
Cast away stones
I won't even blink
A gun is not a math problem,
I won't even think
Just leave you dead like the mink
under my sink
Don't believe in me
Don't believe me
I graduated from hungry,
and made it to greedy
My flow is like pasta
Take it and eat it
But I'ma need cheese if I'm bakin' a
ziti

Lil Wayne
"Gossip"
The Leak ($3.99 on Itunes)
blond_guy

Con

<>

Only because he hasn't dropped many albums recently, doesn't mean he's not a current rapper. He played in one of 50 Cent's recent songs and on the #1 hit "Smack That" with Akon.

<>

There's always somebody who's going to like Lil' Wayne's lyrics more than 50 Cent's. But album sales certainly show that people often choose 50 over Wayne.

<>

He did not sell millions with his latest album so that's incorrect.

The lyric you sent me is not bad. But your whole argument is based on opinion. My argument is based on the fact that more people share my opinion than mine.
I'm glad to see a rap-related debate though, I never thought that anyone on debate.org was a rap fan.
Debate Round No. 3
25 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Rob1Billion 7 years ago
Rob1Billion
lil wayne is just too commercial. I like Mobb Deep. They are kinda hard to swallow for most people though.
Posted by bubba245 9 years ago
bubba245
to be honest I think lil Wayne is a great rapper but I have to say 50 is the best he may not have sold the most albums but he is the best of all time
Posted by gahbage 9 years ago
gahbage
50 disrespects so many people for no reason, so Wayne didn't care. And he has better things to do than beef with 50.
Posted by blond_guy 9 years ago
blond_guy
He's showing respect to someone who disrespected him up and down. Can you u say b1tch nigga?
Posted by gahbage 9 years ago
gahbage
Wayne said that because he respected 50 as a rapper, not because he's afraid of him. And it was only brought up because some people thought he was dissing 50 on "Gossip".

And selling has little to do with skill; it's pretty much all about marketing. "Curtis" would not have sold as much as it did if not for the media attention from the 50 vs. Kanye thing.
Posted by blond_guy 9 years ago
blond_guy
yarii, ur point on sales is comparing Wayne with Mariah Carey and Usher. Not 50 cent! 50 cent's record sales are far from Wayne's. They're not even on the same level. Wayne keeps trying, but he just can't sell like 50. After 50 layed his a*s out on the track "Part Time Lover" in half of a verse, Lil Wayne said, and I quote
"I can't mess with fifty"

I rest my case.
Posted by blond_guy 9 years ago
blond_guy
<<white suburban youths who follow trends than actual hardcore rap fans and real niggas. Oh and the Carter III was pushed back because a bunch of the songs were leaked not as some marketing ploy. Another thing, "G'd up from the feet up" is a phrase used only by the whitest of wiggers and the pussiest of bitch-niggas. Saying that completely discredits your opinion.>>

How can you even say that? That's pretty insulting. And I'm sorry if I'm being too judgmental, but you're a white boy who gets high off of sizzurp and weed? Seriously, who's the wigger? I'm a Hispanic from New York, not a white suburban youth. Lil Wayne said himself "I don't wanna mess with 50". He tried, then he backed right off...
Posted by Yariiii 9 years ago
Yariiii
Just wanted to add some other quotes from the site where it praises Lil Wayne. He is truly the best rapper alive.

"But there's a Macbeth side to him too: Look like the innocent flower, but be the serpent under't. Anyone can understand Wayne, and yet no one can understand Wayne"

(Dont like his point on album sales)
For who kept on comparing Wayne to other rappers because of "album sales" take this:
"But lucky for Wayne (and us), critics arent the only ones who love him. I hate to keep harping on sales (although then again why not, because sales are the whole point here —otherwise he'd be giving this one away free too) but a projected 900K+ in the first week? More than Mariah and Usher did in their first weeks combined?"

Heres just a little of both sides. Not the best in telling a story but his verses still make sense and very very good:
"The word "narrative" has come up a few times. Narrative comes from narrare, which is O.G. for to tell a story. "Fly, go hard like geese erection" is brilliant. But it's not a story, and it's barely a sentence, and the next verse is "fashion patrol, police detection/ Eyes stay tight like Chinese connection." But maybe that's not the best part of "Dr. Carter" to bring up if you want to talk about the few and fabulous times Lil Wayne stays on point."

Listen to this verse:
"Wait! As I put the light down his throat/ I can only see flow/ His blood starting to flow/ His lungs starting to grow/ This one starting to show/ Strong signs of life/ Where the stitches, here's the knife/ Smack his face, his eyes open/ I reply with a nice welcome back/ Hip-Hop, I saved your life."

Just at the fact that Wayne can rap so metaphorically makes him unique. In other words different from others, doing your own thing and being yourself and thats what being a good rapper is all about.
Posted by Yariiii 9 years ago
Yariiii
I believe Pro is right, also concluding that I am a Wayne fan myself. Yes, you are correct in saying that Lil Wayne didnt sell as many albums as the others but its based on lyrics and origniality. 50 cent cannot be compared to Wayne whatsoever, but I do have to admit Eminem was very good IN HIS TIME. Unfortuantely hes has long dropped from what he used to be, serving no competition for fellow Weezy. Others have tried to stoop to his level but hes just simply better than all the other MCs. Wayne has something to him & Wayne might not be as popular when it comes to album sales but his verses are most def. the sickest. Yes people obviously dont notice his potential but for those who do, know that Wayne is the obvious choice to the best rapper alive, hands down. And its pretty hard to explain Waynes choice in rapping becuase its so different from how other rappers usually rap. Here are parts of reveiws I found browsing the internet on the Carter 3 reveiws:
"It's more the fact that he seems to just be playing with it.On The Eminem Show Eminem sounded like he'd lost his d*mn mind, doing Pee Wee Herman impressions and rhyming
about utterly wacky nonsense because he just didn't give a f*ck anymore. Wayne projects the same sense of
just-foolin'-around but instead of boredom, he's driven by curiosity. He loves getting lost inside his own
brain, slipping inside every unlocked door just to see where it goes. My favorite example of this is four bars
near the end of "Mr. Carter" where he just takes an idea and runs with it — "Off the Richter /Hector/ Camacho Man Randy Savage/ Far from average/ Above status/ Quo…flow…so…pro…" It's an earthquake metaphor"
Also other quotes like:
"The guy can ryhme" "I find many lyric-driven rap artists are difficult to listen to. Either I dont like the way his voice sounds, and I don't like how he articulates or I dont like the words he uses — too many nouns maybe, or too many abstractions. Dense metaphor is strictly for-the-mind sh*t."
Posted by FBJames 9 years ago
FBJames
Lil Wayne doesn't write his own lyrics dumba$$
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