The Instigator
GRANTHOLBEN
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
imabench
Con (against)
Winning
24 Points

Lincoln is better than Obama

Do you like this debate?NoYes+3
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
imabench
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/31/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,217 times Debate No: 34406
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (5)

 

GRANTHOLBEN

Pro

President Abraham Lincoln did many wonderful things. He freed the slaves, which was something that no other president had come close to completing. I'm sure some people would say that President Obama is the best president in history. Well, I'm here to argue. Let's Compare:

Lincoln:
- For Constitution
- Protecting Rights

Obama:
- Against what our country was set up on, the Constitution.
- Wanting to ban Gun Rights
imabench

Con

"I'm sure some people would say that President Obama is the best president in history."

And i think everyone can agree that those people shouldnt be allowed to vote.

"Lincoln: For Constitution, Protecting Rights"

Well thats kind of not entirely true.... There are many people who believe that the Southern States did have the right to secede from the Union if they felt they were being abused, and while there is no universally agreed answer to whether or not they did or didnt have the right to secede, if they did then Lincoln most certainly trampled that right and would be against the Constitution.

Lincoln also kind of has a bad history with Habues Corpus (Right to know what you are being accused of upon being jailed) http://www.history.com...

^ That is a clear violation of Constitutional and trampling of people's rights..... Hell if Bush or Carter tried to pull that they probably would have faced impeachment...

"Obama: Against what our country was set up on, the Constitution, Wanting to ban Gun Rights"

Now youre going to have to clarify how Obama is against the Constitution (good luck with that) but I can certainly say that Obama does not want to ban gun rights.....

Obama doesnt want to ban all guns and believes people have the right to own pistols, hunting rifles, shotguns, etc. He just would prefer that there be some limitations on some of the more powerful and deadly guns and also believes that background checks should be expanded and that clip size limits should be implemented. He is pro gun control but he is most certainly not for the BANNING of gun rights.

=================================================================

Things that might show how Obama was a tad (emphasis on tad) bit better then Lincoln:

1) Lincoln did not think blacks and whites should be equal politically:
http://www.history.com...
(See number 2 for his actual words, its kinda freaky really)

2) Lincoln did technically trigger a Civil War with his election and cause numerous states to secede, Obama did not

3) Lincoln inspired 'Abe Lincoln, Vampire Hunter' which was a horrendous movie, Obama hasnt inspired a bad film as of today

4) Obama did wonders in getting young people to vote in elections more then Lincoln did.... young voters increased by 3 million which was a 10% increase from 2004
http://www.rockthevote.com...

Thats all I got for now
Debate Round No. 1
GRANTHOLBEN

Pro

President Obama has tried to convince Congress to take away gun rights. He has gone many places to try to convince people to help him. He's also wanting to write a new Constitution. He says; "It's out of date." Which it was made a long time ago, but it still holds our nations rights.

Are you for slavery?
President Lincoln tried his best to demolish slavery in our nation. He succeed. What amazing things has Obama done? That's right, nothing.
imabench

Con

"President Obama has tried to convince Congress to take away gun rights."

Its not agreed though that what Obama would like to do infringes on gun rights though. There are valid arguments from those who support background checks, an assault weapons ban, magazine limits, etc that such measures do not curtail the 2nd amendment to an unnecessary degree.

"He's also wanting to write a new Constitution"

Ok thats just bullsh*t, theres no evidence of that at all

"He says; "It's out of date." "

Evidence? Assuming he did he most likely wasnt referring to the entire thing either.

"Are you for slavery?"

Im 50/50 on it

"President Lincoln tried his best to demolish slavery in our nation. He succeeded."

Not entirely:
https://en.wikipedia.org...

"The Proclamation did not apply to the five slave states that were not in rebellion, nor to most regions already controlled by the Union army"

Lincoln outlawed slavery in regions he did not have any control over and decided to not outlaw slavery in regions that he did have under his control.... Which I dont think counts as him trying his best to demolish slavery.

"What amazing things has Obama done? That's right, nothing."

Amazing is subjective but there are a couple commendable things that have happened while Obama was president:

- Weve had some healthcare reform which is something that never happens in Congress
- We took out Osama
- Our economy is slowly healing itself
- Im pretty sure hes the first president to come out in favor of Gay Marriage
- The War in Iraq is over
- Ended 'Dont Ask Dont Tell"
- Stopped the use of torture

Even though this site is dominated by conservative hacks who would never admit it, Obama has done some things that are worthy of commending.

Extend all arguments about how Lincoln suspended the Writ of Habues Corpus, triggered a Civil War just by being elected, Lincoln believing that blacks and hwites shouldnt have equal rights, inspiring a terrible movie 'Abe Lincoln, Vampire Hunter', etc etc
Debate Round No. 2
GRANTHOLBEN

Pro

Ok. I agree. Osoma has been killed, the war is over. However, Obama didn't kill Osama. Obama, tries to take the credit the death of Osoma. Your for slavery. That's something that our sixteenth president got rid of. You want to bring it back because you're to cheap to pay for the labor you are too lazy to do the work yourself. President Lincoln along with several others tried to get slavery banished. (by the way, wikipedia is a crappy source. It's not the full truth if it's the truth at all.) You have a good point with the background checks, but Obama doesn't want that. And besides, thats not going to do a dang thing with this school shooting. They're parents could have a clean record but the kids that take the gun to school to shoot because of bullying, depression, etc. They could get a hold of it. Someone with a clean record could walk into a Capella's and buy a gun turn around and shoot at someone. That's not going to stop it! Someone could buy a gun for someone with a unclean record. Again, that will not stop a dang thing!
imabench

Con

"Obama didn't kill Osama"

He gave the order to do so when he could have chosen not to (according to Zero Dark Thirty and a ton of reports on the history channel) so he kinda can claim that he did kill Osama.

Had Bush or another republican been president when Osama was killed you can bet that their entire re-election campaign would focus on the fact that they killed Osama....

"Your for slavery"

I said im 50/50 on it....

"That's something that our sixteenth president got rid of."

But he chose to not get rid of it in slave states that were under his control, as I have shown earlier.

"You want to bring it back because you're to cheap to pay for the labor you are too lazy to do the work yourself."

I only said im 50-50 on slavery Pro! My god your conduct is horrendous....

"You have a good point with the background checks, but Obama doesn't want that."

He kinda does:
http://news.yahoo.com...
http://www.theblaze.com...
http://www.foxnews.com...
http://www.reuters.com...
http://www.cnn.com...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
http://www.breitbart.com...

Extend all dropped arguments about Lincoln blatantly violating several Constitutional Rights, causing a Civil War, being pretty racist, etc etc
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by newbiehere 4 years ago
newbiehere
Quote:
"Are you for slavery?"
Im 50/50 on it

Oh god. I loled.
Posted by GRANTHOLBEN 4 years ago
GRANTHOLBEN
philochristos: Are you an idiot? Lincoln was a United States President. He was the sixteenth President of the United States of America. MORON! KEEP YOUR BULL SH** COMMENTS TO YOUR FU***** SELF~
Posted by Noumena 4 years ago
Noumena
This is certainly interesting. Not the Con position, the idea that Lincoln was a Constitutionalist who even closely approached the role of protecting (rather than usurping and stepping on) the rights of others.
Posted by philochristos 4 years ago
philochristos
GRANTHOLBEN, that's just what they WANT you to believe. Don't buy it! Abe Lincoln is a myth.
Posted by xXCryptoXx 4 years ago
xXCryptoXx
And there is no proof Abe Lincoln existed in the first place :D
Posted by xXCryptoXx 4 years ago
xXCryptoXx
Uh, Obama is black.

I think he wins.

Duh.
Posted by GRANTHOLBEN 4 years ago
GRANTHOLBEN
imabench: Thanks, I must have clicked on the wrong one. THANK you so much!

philochristos: First of all, Abe Lincoln was a REAL US president not some damn fictional character.
Posted by imabench 4 years ago
imabench
grant, change to the pro position because otherwise you are against the resolution and are for Obama over Lincoln....
Posted by philochristos 4 years ago
philochristos
This is a silly debate. Abe Lincoln is a fictional character.

https://www.facebook.com...
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by effimero89 4 years ago
effimero89
GRANTHOLBENimabenchTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:00 
Reasons for voting decision: Lincoln served from March 4, 1861 - March 4, 1865 (first term) and March 4, 1865 - April 15, 1865 (second term) and it wasn't until the 14th Amendment to the Constitution was ratified on July 9, 1868 that all the salves were really free. Beside they are so apart in history that this debate is completely retarded.
Vote Placed by Greematthew 4 years ago
Greematthew
GRANTHOLBENimabenchTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: While I think Lincoln is a FAR better president than Obama, Pro made no effort to support or refute any arguments. Con made all the points and arguments himself.
Vote Placed by jdog2016 4 years ago
jdog2016
GRANTHOLBENimabenchTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: imabench had wonderful arguments. Everytime something was thrown at him, he countered very well. Also, many of Pro's arguments were very ignorant. "Obama wants to rewrite the constitution." Seriously?
Vote Placed by leprechaun 4 years ago
leprechaun
GRANTHOLBENimabenchTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Con made convincing arguments and had presented the required evidence to support them. Grammar to Con because pro made several grammatical errors.
Vote Placed by newbiehere 4 years ago
newbiehere
GRANTHOLBENimabenchTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro throws a personal comment at Con, so conduct point goes to Con (as he pointed out). Con had better grammar overall, but I didn't award him the point because he misses caps and apostrophes, and I can be a dick about those. Con lists his sources while Pro doesn't, so points go to Con for that. Con rebuts just about everything Pro throws at him (showing that Obama is, at worst, as good as Lincoln), and then portrays Obama in a a bad-ass light by pointing out things like the Osama take-down (showing that Obama is awesomer than Lincoln). Con has gone above and beyond his requirement to win this debate, and has Obamafied his opponent--whatever that means.