The Instigator
gokorea
Con (against)
Losing
15 Points
The Contender
Mickeymouse
Pro (for)
Winning
18 Points

Lowering the voting age

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/19/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,473 times Debate No: 1959
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (14)
Votes (11)

 

gokorea

Con

Ladies and gentlemen, in this debate I am here to oppose the motion that the house would lower the voting age to 18.

The context of this debate is that there is a low voter turnout. That is the problem that brings us to have this debate. Also this is not due to the fact that the voting age is too high, but it is due to the fact that there is voter apathy and lack of mature and politically active electorate.
So, firstly, I will prove that lowering the voting age has inherent harms and should not be undertaken. And secondly, I will present an alternative that raises both voter quality, and participation rates.

Moving onto my first argument, which is that it is impossible to find a reliable standard for maturity among young people. And, equating age with maturity is simply wrong, ladies and gentlemen. So, on the first level of analysis, what is the standard of maturity? We challenge the proposition to give us a clear, objective standard, and support for the idea that 18 is a reliable standard, as opposed to the legal age in Korea of 19. And second of all, in the second level of analysis, equating age with maturity is simply wrong, because young people of today are simply less mature than in the past, and are more sheltered than ever. Young people were forced to grow up quickly, and assume responsibility in society quickly in the past, ladies and gentlemen. They were forced to have jobs earlier, to marry earlier, but that is not the case today. Today, many children in Korea are being spoiled, letting their parents deal with their problems, even after they are quite old, ladies and gentlemen. And the so-called "kangaroo youth" are becoming an international problem. A prominent example of this is the Hanhwa chairman fighting for his son who was over 20 years old at the time, ladies and gentlemen. So we say that actually young people today are less mature and we see no reason what-so-ever to lower the age more than the maturity age that was in the past.

For my second point, which is that young people of today are more likely to vote for style rather than substance. Not only are the young people today less mature, they are also very pop-culture oriented, easily persuaded by candidates who may be popular rather than good with high quality, which will reduce the quality of the votes overall, and distort the candidate's focus, ladies and gentlemen. And on the second level of analysis, the majority of young people today do not care about political substance. We demand that the proposition show us an uprising among young people in Korea to get the voting age lowered. Without this, how can they prove the political will among 18-year-olds? Is there a clear, measurable standard for determining the level of political participation and willingness among the youth? I say there isn't.

And finally, to my third argument. The opposition brings you an alternative that can effectively solve the problem, as opposed to the harmful proposition plan. The counterplan is a compulsory voting clause in the law plus various measures to increase participation, such as voters' education, guaranteed government subsidy on candidate platforms, media broadcasted debates, "Get out the Vote" campaigns, and et cetera. What is needed is more people voting wisely, not a lowering voting age. The compulsory voting clause will bring clearly increased participation regardless of enforcement. In Thailand, this is not enforced, but even if it wasn't enforced, the voting rates rose by about 15% after the clause was established. And in Uruguay, it was enforced, and the voting rate soared from 67% to 88.2%. So it is clear that the benefits are existent whether you enforce it or not, and the government can choose enforcement. But either way, the clause plus the supplemented participation measures, such as Bush's "Get out the Vote" movement, will be successful.

Because of these reasons, I ask you in this round to oppose this motion. Thank you.
Mickeymouse

Pro

Hello Jane. And hello guys.

In December 19th in 2008, we have presidential election. In election, if people are over 19, our country give us a voting quality. I think we have to lower the voting age.

According to Dr. Sam, people always said if we give university student a voting quality, they will pick wrong president because they are stupid and they have short thinking, plus because they have low ages. Well, it's wrong. I mean it could be in old days, because they are poor so they can;t study well so they don't know how to pick a great president. But now a days, it's different everyone. Now a days, there is less that student can't study. So they can be smart then in old days students so they can choose a great president. So we can lower the voting age.

In 2008, we have many president candidates. And they come out with many reduction. But, can we believe it? I think that lower ages student can't pick great president is no just they are stupid, short thinking or they have low ages. It's because president candidates said lie in they're reduction. So we need to lower a voting age.

According to homepage kuro5shin, lowering the Voting Age will increase voter turnout. For several reasons lowering the voting age will increase voter turnout. It is common knowledge that the earlier in life a habit is formed the more likely that habit or interest will continue throughout life. If attempts are made to prevent young people from picking up bad habits, why are no attempts made to get youth started with good habits, like voting? If citizens begin voting earlier, and get into the habit of doing so earlier, they are more likely to stick with it through life.
Kids Voting is a program in which children participate in a mock vote and accompany their parents to the polls on Election Day. Reports show that even this modest gesture to including youth increased the interest in voting of their whole family. Parents were more likely to discuss politics with their kids and thus an estimated 600,000 adult voters were more likely to vote because of it. Lowering the voting age will strengthen this democracy for all of us.
Debate Round No. 1
gokorea

Con

Before I start my round, I would like to thank MickeyMouse(Jennifer) for accepting my debate.

In this round of debate, in this round, I am going to talk about some rebuttals on Pros points, ask Pros some questions, and summarize my arguments.

The proposition side has, firstly, said that in nowdays, students are very so smart that they can choose the president wisely. She also said some points from Dr. Sam. However, it cannot be true. First of all, she did not state the exact source and did not explain who Dr. Sam is. Second of all, she said about the studies and being smart. On the other hand, study does not really affect voting quality. For example, somebody who is very bad at study can choose the president very wisely. Even it is true, she did not tell us why it is. Also, she said most of the students are smart in these days, but does that mean the minorities are not people? Although there might be many students who are smart, what about the rest of the others who are NOT smart?

Secondly, she has told us that if students can vote at the younger age, it can be their habit which can increase the voting turnout. In contrast, it is not always necessarily true. In 2007, the voting age has been already lowered from 20 to 19. However, in the latest Presidential Election, it showed the lowest voters turnout- It was shown that only 60% of the total voters had voted for the election. It finally means that lowering the voting age does not affect people for increasing voting turnout. It only gets decreased more.

Now, I would like to ask MickeyMouse these questions:

1. Do you believe that 18-year-olds make better political decisions than the most mature in society, such as 50-year-old businessmen?

2. The Korean Constitution states that you are an adult when you are 20 years old and that when you're 19 years old, you can have certain political and business rights. So what do you think about that? What is your basis for saying that the standard of an adult is 18 years old in Korea?

3. Even 18-year-olds cannot set up their own businesses, they cannot invest, they cannot vote, they cannot participate in political parties, and such. So, how can you say that those who are younger than 19 year old actually do have these valid social experiences that you need for the basis of voting?

4. Do you have clear and objective standard for maturity?

Moving onto my summary, I would like to emphasize, again, my points.

First, people whose ages are under 19 are not really mature and they do not have any valid social experience. Those who are younger than 19, still have to be taken care of by older adults. Thus, they are not independent, which means that they are too immature to participate in election.
Second, young people mostly like style better than substances. They do not really care about the quality of the candidates, but care about being stylish. It is because they are pop-oriented. So, they can choose the president wisely since they do not consider about what should be considered about.
Lastly, it is because of the purpose. What we seriously need to talk about is more people voting good-quality president, not lowering the voting age. Lowering the voting age, does not really mean choosing a wise president.

So, therefore, because we live in the country called Korea, where the age is 19, we believe that we should run away from the international trend unless we change the Constitution. We live in a society where the cultural basis of an adult is 19 years old. Therefore, ladies and gentlemen, we beg this motion does not pass. Thank you very much.
Mickeymouse

Pro

Hi everyone. It' s very nice to see you guys again.

Well, Jane I am enjoying this debate too.

Before going to my arguments, I would like to answer the question that Jane ask to me.

1.Yes I think so. As many people said our children such as high students or universities, are becoming smarter and smarter. Of course 50 years old business man keep more experience than 18years old students but I don't think that experience and voting has no relationship.

2.Sorry, Jane I remember that I didn't said that over 18 is a adults.:)

3.Even though they didn't experience, I heard in school, teacher tell them how to choose good president for our county. Plus, they have voting a president is their classroom, right? And they can experience many times to choose good president of Korea.

Well, now I'm going to move to my arguments.

Well, I'm going to give you guys a example of Americans just like all other Americans, young Americans pay taxes. In fact, they pay a lot of taxes. According to the IRS, teens pay an estimated $9.7 Billion dollars in sales taxes alone, not to mention many millions of taxes on income. "You may be a teen, you may not even have a permanent job, but you have to pay taxes on the money you earn." Youth pay billions in taxes to state, local, and federal governments yet they have absolutely no say over how much is taken. This is what the American Revolution was fought over; this is taxation without representation.

In addition to being affected by taxes, young people are affected by every other law that Americans live under. As fellow citizens in this society, every action or inaction taken by lawmakers affects youth directly, yet they have no say in the matter.

According to a study conducted by Dr. Frank Smearing of the University of Chicago, he found that "Between 1992 and 1995, forty American states relaxed the requirements for transferring an accused under the maximum age of jurisdiction into criminal court," and "In Colorado, for example, defendants under the maximum age for juvenile court jurisdiction may nonetheless be charged by direct filing in criminal court if they are over 14 years of age and are charged with one of a legislative list of violent crimes." What kind of message do we send when we tell youth they are judged as mature, responsible adults when they commit murder, but silly, brainless kids when they want to vote? This is a double standard, no different than during the Vietnam War. War isn't a dead issue now either, leaders who youth can't vote for today may send them to war tomorrow. Lowering the voting age is the fair and correct way to set things straight.

Thirdly, today¢&;ç&castle;s politicians represent various constituencies. As of today, young people are no one's constituency. Why should politicians care about the needs and wishes of youth when they have no ability to vote for or against them? Politicians have no motivation whatsoever. Lowering the voting age will give politicians a real reason to respect the desires of young people. The words spoken before the Senate Judicatory Committee supporting lowering the voting age in 1971 are as true then as they are now, "The anachronistic voting-age limitation tends to alienate them [the youth] from systematic political processes and to drive them to into a search for an alternative, sometimes violent, means to express their frustrations over the gap between the nation's deals and actions. Lowering the voting age will provide them with a direct, constructive and democratic channel for making their views felt and for giving them a responsible stake in the future of the nation."

In conclusion, every person in the United States is born with the individual responsibility to be active in the political process. Without allowing youth to vote, we can¢&;ç&castle;t expect teenagers to care for the political process.

Thank you..
Debate Round No. 2
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by KoreaRocks 8 years ago
KoreaRocks
Dang.. I had closed my previous account(which was gokorea) just because my win ration was 0%, but now, I won everything!! I think it was bad timing..
Posted by gokorea 8 years ago
gokorea
Yeah, but you can't say that I am cheater for that reason. I did write the arguments so I am allowed to copy and paste it, 'cause it is not from somebody else's.. You declined it anyways, so why not use it with MickeyMouse??
Posted by yoon172 8 years ago
yoon172
Hey, this was the topic which you were going to debate me in!
You cheater, so you copy and pasted the whole thing to debate Micky.
Posted by gokorea 8 years ago
gokorea
So that's why you had voted for MickeyMouse?
p.s. I finally got your Korean name..in Doseong elementary school.. Nevermind..
Anyways, good luck on your project..
Posted by yoon172 8 years ago
yoon172
To gokorea:

You should really specify the topic by saying "lowering the voting age of 18 or any other country. Alas, comments do not make a very good way to specify topics in a debate in debate.org

P.S
The voting age in America is 18
Posted by gokorea 8 years ago
gokorea
To kels1123 :
I had already written about it. - I forgot to write that in round 1, so I wrote that in the first comment..
Posted by kels1123 8 years ago
kels1123
Go Korea , no you don't , however it may help if you specify at the beginning of the debate which country you are talking about.
Posted by gokorea 8 years ago
gokorea
To mmadderom :
I am a Korean, so in Korea, 19 is the current voting age. I don't have to do everything that is about the U.S., am I?
Posted by mmadderom 8 years ago
mmadderom
"Ladies and gentlemen, in this debate I am here to oppose the motion that the house would lower the voting age to 18. "

Um. That IS the current voting age.
Posted by gokorea 8 years ago
gokorea
Well.. I don't mind about that..
You MAY challenge me!
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Vote Placed by Renzzy 8 years ago
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