Debate Rounds (5)
First off, I am not arguing that ALL lying is bad. Are you, Pro, arguing that most arguing is not bad? At any rate, I am not against every single lie that leaves a sinful human being's mouth, especially in a case where (for example) if you knew a person was suicidal, and she asked you if there was any poison in the house, you believe it would be acceptable to lie to her in order to save her life. I am simply inferring the proposition that SOME lying is bad. I am against MOST cases of telling lies. Here's why:
Lies get you into deeper trouble. There are a lot of times when you are--as my opponent said previously--trying to cover up your tracks, and you don't want to be exposed of something you did before. The result is that you lie about something you did. But the point is, this is just digging yourself into a deeper hole and eventually you'll be so caught up in your lie that you can't escape. And what of your entire situation when someone finds out the truth about you? You're red handed and you'll be even more embarrassed and uncomfortable than you would've been if you would've told the truth in the first place.
Now I will attempt a rebuttal.
"My parents are lied to when I have certain conversations with them when it deals with me in general as they get mad when I am "too truthful" with them."
Sir, you have different parents than I am used to! Or, you're just looking at them from an odd perspective excuse me. You see, my parents appreciate it when I tell the straight out truth instead of lying, even if what I'm saying puts my ego in a bad light behavior-wise, and it COULD be the same with your parents--you're just not seeing them that way. I don't know but no matter what, your parents should be happy when you tell the truth rather than lie to them. If they don't show it, you should remember that they wouldn't be disappointed with you if you trust them with the truth, and when you lie you're 'digging yourself into a deeper hole.'
"When... I'm majorly depressed or angry...but I lie and say "I'm fine". The list of lies I've told goes on."
The greatest and wisest book in the whole existence of literature says that lying is wrong and that we should strive to be truthful and honest in all we do. In fact it says that the spirit of lying is a temptation and is a sin we should not commit. This book is God's Word, and the Creator of all things expects us to bring the Bible's truth into realization and apply it to our lives. This is a big reason I don't believe lying is okay. BUT, you must know now that I have sinned greatly. I confess that, but you must also know that ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, so we should ALL confess ANY sins we commit in the past. After we repent, we should endeavor towards a purer lifestyle of truth rather than lies. So if you have a list of lies, you shouldn't just sit there with them, you should examine them. Point out the ones that put you in a better situation and the ones that put you in a worse situation. Repent of them, because they are sins, and then realize that you should remove the habit of lying from your everyday life. I'm not yelling at you to do anything but I'm explaining the gist of Jesus Christ saving from our sins because it an action that will lift burdens from our lives.
Maybe your grandma is right, because you could be safer and more secure if you told the truth about how you're feeling!
Thank you for your time, anyone who is voting and read this far! Good luck, Pro!
This round made the debate more interesting. Hey, thanks pro for your honesty when explaining a story that puts you in a bad light! I admire that of you!
Pro said "I like have been in situations where I had to "cover someone" literally lie to keep them out of trouble. Sometimes when people tell the truth they become a snitch." In context, he was explaining how "sometimes you have no choice." But this doesn't make sense, because we can easily prove that for every thing we do we have some choice. The example Pro gave was not of him being physically forced to lie, but it was instead him choosing to lie FOR HIS OWN GOOD. This is where is gets tricky, because although it is sometimes ok to lie for your own good, it is usually wrong
Let's look at the cycle of sinning. First, a definition. http://www.thefreedictionary.com... Secondly, you must know that we all have transgressions against the moral so-called law because it is impossible to be absolutely perfect. Agreed? Now if we do one sin, will another sin make it better? So since we are talking about the Bible, I'll point out that it says do not get drunk and do "make out" for lack of a better term when you are outside of marriage. You wonder why you don't want your family to know about your partying, well its because they don't want you to do it. They don't want you to do it because it's not safe, in a way it's unruly (no offense) and in the end it all comes down to being a sin. So, when your cousins told the truth about you, they were teaching you a lesson about what's right and what's wrong. It could've been worse: what if your cousins lied about the whole thing, but then someone found you out a different way? They would've been extra mad and you would've been even more embarrassed.
Telling the truth is not always snitching, and it definitely doesn't always associate with slandering one another either. James 4:11 says: Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. Your cousins weren't speaking against you, they were actually bringing the "bad" things you did into "the light" and confessing. Now it's over, now you know not to tell them things, but you should forgive them because is it really that big of a deal that they told the truth? And also, they probably didn't think it would hurt you so much to say what they said. I understand where you're coming from. in the past, I have lied in order not to waste time. I admit, that's not what I should've done, since I ended up feeling guilty by lying. That's where you (pro) and I are different: you feel guilty when you tell the truth, I feel guilty when I lie. I can't say which one is better for their own good, but I can try to argue that mine is more logical.
A lot of times lying can bring down ANOTHER person's ego in order to bring mine up, while in other cases lying can make others feel bad because they know you don't trust them or something. Lying is negative because when you do so, you risk the victim finding out about your lie, and this risks a friendship or worse. People tend to forgive when your honest more than when you tell a lie. That's why telling the truth is more logical.
Also, your story won't change the generalization that most lying is bad because the situation you and your cousins were in is not the usual case for lying, although it does happen a lot (don't get me wrong). I understand why you're mad and all that, but I just think it's for the wrong reasons, and that because your cousins snitched on you doesn't mean that lying should be used more than telling the truth. The story should not force you to thinking that all or most lying is OK.
Luke 6:42 doesn't prove anything for your side since it doesn't have to do with lying, however in context I realize that it speaks of hypocrisy as a wrong-doing. The point I'm trying to make is that it is hypocritical to SAY you're going to lie but then tell the truth, and I believe the only wrong thing your cousin(s) did was to lie to you by saying they were going to cover for you.
Besides, didn't your cousins get in trouble for partying just like you did?
Just remember the consequences lying can have on you. If you get into a habit of lying it can cause you to second guess yourself, creating inner conflict and stress for you. And it's a lot more effective and better in the long run when you simply look at the positive in a situation instead of telling little white lies. For instance, if your friend has a new sweater and you don't like the color on her, you don't have to tell her that. You could comment on the style of the sweater when she asks you what you think.
One last thing: you don't need lies to make you look like a good person. There is no reason to lie to make who you are seem more interesting. But, if you feel you need to do something about becoming more interesting, let's talk more about that. Also, if you care more about the way telling the truth makes you feel versus the way lying makes you feel, it's because you're not happy with the way you're acting. The way to avoid that is to worry about behaviors other than honesty/lying and focus on actions that will make you feel good about yourself without having to be perfidious.
Hope this makes sense. Thanks for debating me on this! It's fun.
Well, I honestly have nothing left to refute because I've been waiting for a rebuttal from Pro this whole time...so, onto the next round.
"Law enforcement officials lie to us everyday the news media get paid good money to lie to us everyday." Do the situations officias and media put us in by lying do us any good? Not in the least, in fact I believe their lies are harmful in a way and should be stopped. For example:
"Everybody for many reasons lie from time to time and this is irrefutable proof that lying is as good as the truth is bad." Again, your proposition is not only irrelevant and illogical but also a bit crazy--no offense to you personally. When we do something bad such as lying, does it mean it's ok and that being honest is the worse thing to do? Just because we sin doesn't mean the sin is good. Obviously lying is a sin. Sins are bad things. Therefore, lying is a bad thing and telling the truth is almost always the best option.
Most of your sources, especially #3, explains only how SOME lying an be good, and this is something we both already agreed about. What you're supposed to be debating is why lying is a good thing USUALLY and that it is BETTER than telling the truth, and none of the links proved either.
Buddha said this: "Three things that cannot be hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth."
Malcolm X said this: "I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it's for and against."
Willa Cartha said this: "The stupid believe that to be truthful is easy; only the artist, the great artist, knows its difficulty."
And finally, H. L. Mencken said this: "I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie. I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave. And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant."
I hope this has helped you in your journey of ethics and truth. One thing is for sure, and that is that the truth plainly states it is better to tell the truth than to speak lies.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by salam.morcos 1 year ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Conduct and language was ok. Con had better sources. This was not a usual debate! I thought Con made a huge error by citing the bible. I am a religious Christian, but it's not logical to argue that "lying is wrong because the bible said so" luckily for Con, Pro cited the bible and therefore Pro allowed "the Bible is true" to be presupposed. It's funny because that simple ends the debate because the bible is clear on lying. Let me add that con didn't rebut until the final round, and the subject changed to snitching. Snitching and lying are not the same. I vote con.
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