The Instigator
TUF
Pro (for)
Tied
6 Points
The Contender
Contra
Con (against)
Tied
6 Points

MIG Tourney R5: "Dexter, overall is a better show than Breaking Bad."

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/17/2012 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 6,737 times Debate No: 25161
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (25)
Votes (5)

 

TUF

Pro

This is the Semi-Final round for MIG's Tourney!! First off I would like to congratulate my opponent for making it this far in the tourney, and wish him an immense amount of luck for the coming debate!

To start, I think it's best we lay down some framework and rules for this debate.

****FRAMEWORK****

1. This is a tournament debate, so it goes without saying that both debaters will be polite and cordial in the coming clash of words, to the best of their own abilities!

2. This debate is based on the concepts and ideas shared by two televisions shows. Both debaters will prove why they think their show specifically is better than their opponents shows. We will be using reasons on concepts, and Ideas, to prove why one show is more interesting than the other, etc.

3. This is a tournament debate, so if either party drops or misses a round, it should be counted as a loss of the debate. Coming this far into the tournament, both debaters should be fully willing to debate accepting the time periods.
As per tournament rules, this debate will be 4-5, with a day voting period, 72 hours to argue, and 8,000 character limits.

4. First round will be for acceptance, clarification of rules, etc. If my opponent has any discrepancies with the rules, it is asked that he offer them up in R1.



I very much look forward to a fun and exciting debate with my opponent, and wish him the best of luck in the up-coming debate.

I will start my arguments in R1. Over to you matey!
Contra

Con

I accept, and look forward to a great debate!

Since I have not seen my opponent's show, I ask that we both put a YouTube clip of each of our shows no longer than 4 minutes in R2, so that viewers will have a better understanding on what we are debating. The video will not count as a criteria for judging arguments.

Good luck!
Debate Round No. 1
TUF

Pro

As per request from my opponent, I have inserted a youtube video of Dexter for the audiences pleasure.

I will offer a link that will provide description of both shows below.

DEXTER: http://en.wikipedia.org...(TV_series)
BREAKING BAD: http://en.wikipedia.org...

<strong>****MY CASE****</strong>

<strong>C1: Plot</strong>

While I have to admit I am a major fan of both shows, I have to say the plot is one thing that I feel makes Dexter a little bit more interesting of a show. In Breaking Bad we have a middle aged man, with a mild case of lung cancer (It recedes later on such that it is not a problem really anymore) who has a small family, a wife, son and daughter, all with problems concerning Walt pulling away from them. While the plot is interesting, the major problem is that it is despairing, depressing, and over all, only interesting as the viewers eagerly want to know what problem will befall the protagonist next. There isn't a whole lot of hope in the show, that things will get any better in certain problematic areas. His wife and his kids are the main one. Walt has basically chosen to completely ignore them at crucial times, such that he can continue his business. While he had a purpose for doing so in the first few seasons of the show, after season 3 this purpose is eradicated. Completely gone. Walt's own tribulations and suffering arise from his arrogance, and his pursuit of money which he technically no longer needs. The show has grown past the point of giving the character purpose for any of his motives in pursuing his drug dealing career. The main character has resorted to buying his son sports cars, trapping his wife into an un-welcoming environment. The plot fails as Walt, as a character no longer has any logical, or reasonable motives to continue his drug dealing habits.
An author for the telebunny says: "Breaking Bad would pull me in before letting my interest fall adrift for a while."
http://telebunny.net...
In all honesty, I feel this is the perfect description of the shows plot. There are certain points of drama in the show that fail to make any real sense, and seem to just be a filler for air time, as the show continues, such as Walt's explosion on Hank near the pool in his backyard, or Hank's conflict with his wife Marie. The shows seems to focus a lot of attention on either one or the other playing some manipulative mind game with their spouse. Each time, the conflict seemingly ends, without ever really giving any real reason for their motives in the conflict. The show does this is several other areas, with other characters as well, however, I will hold that argument off til later. The plot seems to be repetitive throughout the show, in the same regard, that each season Walt faces a new drug lord adversary, and each season, his morals start to become more and more corrupted. The plot of the show seemingly is dying out, and almost seems to be running out of ideas, as the shame general plot is introduced with basically the only difference being the name of the character who Walt is opposing. On the other hand, Dexter seems to be doing quite the opposite. The rising interest in the show doesn't seem to falter, as with each new season, a brand new plot twist occurs, as well as new "Wow" moments in which the audience get to experience. The character Dexter undergoes many trials and plot twists, from Trying to blend into society, protecting those he loves from finding out his Dark Passenger, Going through the trials of marriage, Loss, etc. The list of plot twists for the show Dexter goes on and on continuously. The show doesn't seem to repeat itself in a way such the it becomes boring and drudges on, however keeps an air of excitement and suspense. The audience have no idea what is coming next, and will be easily shocked and awed by the many surprises the show throws at them. For the upcoming season 7, I honestly cannot predict what surprises will be in store, while the plot for Breaking bad's is pretty easy to predict. Walt slip further away from his family, his self created drug empire will crash down around him, leaving him to pick up from the rubble once more, and Walt will have to figure out a way to dig himself out of some treacherous hole he has dug himself into.

<strong>C2: Character Development</strong>

Here is the biggest issue I have with Breaking Bad, the character development. This has been something that has peeved me since the Pilot episode, something I hoped would have been fixed in the coming episodes, that really wasn't done a whole lot. I feel like I do not know any of the characters, what they are thinking, the reasons for their actions, etc. They are completely un-predictable, and subjectively annoying. Walt is shown to be a little bit of a push over in the pilot episode, and the main idea is that his character is supposed to change into a little bit of a hard nosed douche throughout the rest of the show. Walt becomes arrogant, cocky, and rude and will constantly voice his opinion no matter who he is talking to, such that he can prove he is something to be feared, or in the very least respected. However his actions become often times un-predictable. He will make gestures, and will speak out of turn sporadically, and makes a lot of enemies because of it (Gus Fring for example). Often as I watch the show, I watch the character and become quite confused as to why he did a specific action, and wonder in what purposes it achieved. This goes with all of the other characters as well. We know who they are, we know their personalities, but we don't know them. Skylar, Walter JR, Hank, Marie, Jessie (though his character gets at least a little bit of credit from season 2), etc. The difference with Dexter is huge. With Dexter, the audience is pulled in feet first to a first hand tour of the mind of a serial killer. Outside of the objectively dull view that most people have of killers, we get to see deeper into their thoughts and motives, which is something that makes the concept so great. Dexter constantly has monologues, thoughts that give the audience a tour into why he does the things that he does. With each new happening, Dexter is able to appropriate a response, to how he understands the situation, from a serial killers point of view. As a sociopath, Dexter doesn't have feelings, or a need for them. The writers are able to articulate his thoughts such that they are understood by the viewers, and almost give the audience a feeling of reading a book, as they watch the show. The amount of detail implemented into the thought process is quite compelling. This same theme carries through all of the characters. The audience is able to deeply inhibit each character, and can understand and sympathize with each one. The show makes it easy to understand motives, experiences, and plot changes, due to the vast amount of development implemented into each character.Giving credit to the show as being good is one thing. But even fans, have to look at the flaws in the character developments. This article briefly explains one that was found between the relationship shared with Walt and Hank.
http://www.nopictureshow.com...

<strong>C3:Cinematic effect</strong>

Here is another big point for the show Dexter. Part of the reason the show is so popular, is the way that the director is able to implement a sense of caption to the show. The audience feels captured as the producers are able to direct the emotions and the and the effects into the show.

<strong>SUB A: Music</strong>

The music, is by all measures, one of the best attributes to the show. The producers of the show were able to get their hands on one of the most critically acclaimed dramatic musicians for their show, Daniel Licht. Daniel's talent, by no means is a hidden fact. He is known for playing music for major movies, ever since his first film in 1991, "children of the night".
He has also done major movies such as: Amityville Horror, Children of the Corn 3, Hellraiser, Brave New World, Silent Hill, Etc.
The reason his existence in the shows music calligraphy, is that he is pure and utter talent. The music in the show has a tendency to stir prickles on the audiences necks, and invoke a sense of innate satisfaction, in the theme of happenings constantly occurring on the show. In order to prove my point, I will post a few nominal tracks in the form of youtube videos, for the viewers pleasure.

On the contrary, Breaking Bad uses music that isn't very well known, or very interesting, to say the least. Dave Porter, the musician for the show, hasn't featured in any major T.V. Shows or movies outside of breaking bad. The Music is not cynically effective in relation to the show. The show doesn't seem to have an underlying theme for the music to match its cineology. To be blunt, the music isn't very well fitting with the show, and if anything detracts from the over all quality of the show.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

http://en.wikipedia.org...(musician)

<strong>SUB B: Intro</strong>

Another big part of a T.V. that gains the hype and interest, is the intro of the show. Anybody who has seen the intro for Dexter, knows that it is very witty, and comical in light of the Theme of Dexter being a re-known serial killer.
In fact the show has received both an emmy and a player affinity award for having such a captivating and cinematically attracting Intro. The proper award being titled "Outstanding Main Title Design".

http://playeraffinity.com...

http://dexterwiki.wetpaint.com...

On the contrary, is the intro the breaking bad doesn't last more than ten seconds, and is simply the dramatic strumming of a guitar.

<strong>****CONCLUSION****</strong>

I feel that I have drawn a pretty accurate line for why Dexter is a superior show to Breaking Bad. While both are great shows, there are just too man qualities contained within the show Dexter, that are lacking within breaking bad. The plot is started to slack, the character development is weak, and the cinematics are dull and boring. Dexter exceeds the show in almost every peeking aspect. While the concept of Breaking Bad in definitely interesting enough, there are certain other things that need to be induced in order to prevent a story line from becoming dull, or boring.
I ask that the readers vote on who they feel argued the best, and do not vote based on a matter of subjective opinion of the show breaking bad, as I realize the show is very highly risen in popularity over the years.

With all this in regards, I wish my opponent the best of luck in the following rounds. Thankyou.
Contra

Con

I'll assume this round is for arguments.

C1: Plot

I haven't seen Dexter, but I can guess that it is a good show, heck it even has over 2 million viewers! Both shows sound wicked.

Breaking Bad basically involves your average uptight, pushover high school chemistry teacher, Walter White. But when he finds out he has lung cancer, and how he should support his family, the show transforms, as Walter White steadily progresses towards evil. By including numerous events that occur at the side of the show, it stays realistic.

Once Walt is in the drug business as a major manufacturer, he can't quit, as he said, "we have customers to serve." He has drawn himself into this quagmire which has brought violence, instability, and corruption to his life and his family.

The show is given a new twist at different times, which keeps up the interest of viewers, as it seems this feature is apparent in both shows. Breaking Bad with its new spin on what happens, attracts a stronger fan base as well, it keeps on expanding. [6] By showing what happens to side characters and events occasionally surrounded around them, it keeps up interest in the story, and how Walter's drug "activity" is effecting them. For example, when Walt made Walt Jr. get sick from drinking vodka, it showed that Walt was becoming more authoritative and sinister. I wonder if Dexter does the same thing, and shows the effect of protagonist's behavior on others and in detail.

By showing how characters act, you can see how they develop. Breaking Bad, as I've said, does an amazing job at showing character development of others, especially in relation to how Walt's transformation has affected them. For example, Skyler feels more distant from Walt, as he is becoming dark and sinister, yet Walt Jr. is feeling more supportive of Walt, as he is no longer a pushover. The other characters have developments as well.

I also provided four videos like Pro did, to give an equal background to each side (video 2 and 3 flow together).



C2: Critical Aclaim

The Internet Movie Database allows users to rate the shows which they watch. The ratings:

Breaking Bad: 9.3/ 10 (93%) [2]

Dexter: 9.1/ 10 (91%) [1]

Metacritic also has rated both of these shows. I added both the viewer rating, and the critic(s) ratings, and found the average for the result.

Breaking Bad: 96.5% [4]

Dexter: 67.5% [3]

As we can tell, from empirical evidence, Breaking Bad steamrolls Dexter when it comes to ratings, and by both measures beats Dexter.

C3: Fan Base

The amount of people that follow a show is also very critical to how well the show's success is. An analogy: think of Ron Paul. He is very popular, but he has a small yet very supportive fan base. Because his fan base is small, he didn't beat the GOP establishment — Mitt Romney.

Breaking Bad: About 2.9 million viewers. [6]

Dexter: About 2.03 milion viewers in its [5]

So, Breaking Bad also has a higher fan base, about 30% higher than Dexter, and both shows have progressively had more viewers and both have expanding fan bases. A much larger fan base, and moderate to significantly higher ratings give strong evidence that it's a better show than the other compared show.

C4: Additional Aspects

Visually Stunning

Breaking Bad fuses together a great storyline with excellent photography, mired into every frame which allows the show to flow smoothly. The quality, the balance of tension of colors as well as mood and light, and by excellently capturing the background details as well as the surroundings (New Mexico), and the sounds of the show lets Breaking Bad progress through the storyline very well.

The show brilliantly displays the art of cliff hanging as well as keeping the story intense, fast, and keeping people on the edge. Cliff hangers have a distinct role, and it would be wrong for me to show one, but to conclude here, the writing flows very well, and keeps us all interested in the storyline so much begging for more, and pursuing the next events to come. You devour the story like crystal meth (pun intended — for those who have seen the show).

The Reality

The acting is beautifully carried out to make it seem like real time. You don't look at your watch or change channels. You are invested emotionally in the show, and with the acting has various depths of subtlety. It makes you wonder who the character really is, and watching the character act makes the story unfold. Bryan Cranston (Walt) has won several Emmys for his leading role in Breaking Bad. By seeing him and the storyline unfold makes it very interesting in seeing how a normal suburban father and teacher transforms into something nearly at first inconceivable. The characters all have a level of depth and personality that makes them complex, making predictions nearly impossible to come up with.

Humor

The show very cleverly includes humor in the best places, and uses the awesome flow of the storyline to incorporate the humor in the best humor. The interactions between the characters, especially between Walt and Jesse (two main characters) makes up great moments.

Music and Background

The music in the show awesomly combines with the setting and story, and I mean extremely well combines with the setting to create suspense beyond words. The New Mexico/ Albuquerque suburban/ desert setting combines with the music, and the drama of the series makes an excellent blend of the elements to create a pleasing story to watch unfold.

CONCLUSION

Breaking Bad and Dexter are both surely leaders in their genre. Breaking Bad though edges out Dexter in several areas. From zooming in on character development of all major characters, and showing how Walt's transformation has effected them, and how the storyline has shown how dramatic Walt has changed since the beginning of the show, it blends together to create a pleasing and dynamic storyline. The music and stunning visual quality also fuse together with the storyline that pleases our other senses. Just seeing how a person can transform is just by itself incredible. Finally, the ratings of the show and the sizeable fan base size over Dexter both provide strong proof of my case. Though, I am going to try Dexter in the near future.

Thanks TUF for your arguments!

Sources:

http://tinyurl.com...

http://tinyurl.com...

http://tinyurl.com...

http://tinyurl.com...

http://tinyurl.com...

http://tinyurl.com...

Debate Round No. 2
TUF

Pro

For the record, I would like to say that I didn't put in 4 "videos". I put in 1 video, and 3 music tracks, to emphasize my 3rd contention.

****MY CASE****

C1: PLOT

"For example, when Walt made Walt Jr. get sick from drinking vodka, it showed that Walt was becoming more authoritative and sinister. I wonder if Dexter does the same thing, and shows the effect of protagonist's behavior on others and in detail."

The major difference between Dexter, and Breaking Bad in this aspect, is that when Dexter goes insane, he recovers for it pretty well. In season 2 Dexter, captures Sgt Doukes, who knows all about his ruse, and is ready to give him up., only having a code to kill murderers, cannot bring himself to kill him, and considers turning himself in as an alternative. Also in season 5, after Dexter's Wife his killed by trinity, Dexter loses his mind in a public bathroom, and smashes in the head of some hill billy for nothing other than talking crap on him. See, in Breaking Bad, Walt suffers from much of this drug trade effecting his life. He becomes uncontrollable. But the occurrences are not so few. The main character begins to freak out on everyone. Almost as in a direct arrogance to the fact that he used to be a pushover, Walt becomes the villain, and stays that way. He has put his drug trade over his family, and puts them at great risk such that he can pursue his selfish needs.

"By showing how characters act, you can see how they develop. Breaking Bad, as I've said, does an amazing job at showing character development of others, especially in relation to how Walt's transformation has affected them."

The thing about Breaking Bad that loses the interest of a lot of viewers, is the sense of impending doom that it constantly implements. No matter what happens, things aren't going to get 'better' for the main character. In the beginning Walt wanted his family to be safe. The entire point of the drug business was this reason alone. Now he pursues is for his own purposes, and subjects himself to unneccesary danger, as well as his entire family. There is no rhyme or reason for it, he simply pursues it because he can. His entire family is being destroyed because of it, yet the main character doesn't seem to care. Even if Walt is able to take down his enemy drug dealers, viewers are still going to be oppressed with the burden of the knowledge that the main character is slowly turning evil. Any show that exploits a character as evil, is hard to make interest. I predict that as the show progresses, it will lose more and more viewers due to the fact, that the protagonist is now becoming the antagonist.

C2: Character Development

My opponent addresses this is one statement, categorized under "Plot" in his rebuttals, but for the most part dismisses the arguments I made towards Breaking Bad's character development failing. I ask the viewers hereby extend, all of the missed arguments.

C3: Cinematic Effect

SUB A: Music

My opponent touches very lightly on this too. In my argument I explain how the music adds to the effect of the theme, the happenings, the plot, etc. I prove how an effective musician can change the entire mood and dialect for the show, and prove how Breaking Bad's uses minimal, to no effective music as such. My opponent responds to this simply saying:

"The music in the show awesomly combines with the setting and story, and I mean extremely well combines with the setting to create suspense beyond words. The New Mexico/ Albuquerque suburban/ desert setting combines with the music, and the drama of the series makes an excellent blend of the elements to create a pleasing story to watch unfold."

The problem with this, is that it doesn't really address any thing I actually said. How is the music in breaking bad better? Prove to us how it co-agulates with the story line of the show, and creates "suspense beyond words". What are the qualities of the musician for Breaking Bad, as compared to those of Daniel Licht?

None of these questions were answered, thus I see this argument as dropped.

SUB B: Intro

Completely dropped. The point of this argument was to expand on how Dexter is able to raise more excitement, and divulge the audience with a sense of establishment of the show. It is important because it explains the main underlying differences between both shows that make them great. Let's compare and contrast.





Above, I provide videos to both intros. Let's analyze, how one will actually feel during both intros. Dexter's is incredibly witty as it deters to the fact that he is a serial killers. Breaking Bad's is bland and boring, lasting less than 20 seconds. The music is dull, and almost sets an air of dis-interest to the show, while the Dexter intro indites excitement into the viewers.

****MY OPPONENTS CASE****

CRITICAL ACCLAIM

I didn't want to bring statistics up in the debates, because they can differentiate so much between sources, and because stats are completely subjective, but since my opponent has taken the measure to do so, and so will I.

After the season 5 debut of breaking bad, Ratings have dropped at an alarming, and crashing 21%.

http://insidetv.ew.com...

Breaking bad right now has 2.9 million viewers.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com...



Meanwhile the Ratings for Showtimes Dexter Continuously rise, recently ascending 24% from season 6,

http://insidetv.ew.com...

I also note that my opponent cites metacritic, However my results from searching the website gave me quite a bit of different results.

On total entertainment value, Metacritic has paid proffesional critics that rate and judge the qualities of both shows, here is what they were scored.

DEXTER: 77/100

http://www.metacritic.com...

BREAKING BAD: 74/100

http://www.metacritic.com...

User ratings are also judged, where fans can critically nominate a show on it's performance.

DEXTER: 816 Positive ratings from the viewers.

BREAKING BAD: 528 Positive rating from the viewers.

The plain and simple point of this argument, is that is seems that Breaking Bad's quality is ever decreasing, while that of Breaking Bad is rising.


FAN BASE

I feel viewer arguments are pretty unfair due to the main fact that Showtime is a pay channel, while AMC is a channel that comes free in most basic Packages. With Dish, the top 200 exploits AMC.

http://www.dish.com...

With Directv, The Choice Extra Package exploits AMC.

http://www.directv.com...

Comcast Cable Exploits this with the Digital Starter:
http://www.comcast.com...

The point is that In order for people to watch Dexter on TV, they must pay their TV provider an extra 12.99 a month for the channel. The statistics you display, also don't include the Internet ratings.

Dexter receives online ratings from tubeplus.me, of 111,086 likes.
http://www.tubeplus.me...

Breaking bad only gets 98,017 likes.
http://www.tubeplus.me...

VISUALLY STUNNING

An example would do here. I actually fail to find anything you listed in this argument in the show. How is this superior to Dexter?

THE REALITY

How is the reality in this show is climatic, and fails to point interest. How is this superior to Dexter?

HUMOR

The humor in Breaking Bad is far stretched, and only included in a few episodes. Dexter implements it in every single episode, as that is the major part of the show. How is the humor in Breaking Bad superior to Dexter's?

****CONCLUSION****

I have proven that Dexter exceeds breaking bad in just about every aspect. My opponent has failed to prove the superiority of the show breaking bad to that of Dexter. That mixed in with the dropped arguments, justifies a VOTE PRO.
Contra

Con

Thanks TUF. For the record, I was pretty busy that last round, so I was somewhat rushed.

I actually was able to get Dexter and watch the first 3 episodes, so I some understanding of my opponent's case.

I will focus on rebuttals mainly, but also support my case.

C1: Plot

Dexter pursues his strange passion for his self-interest.

Walt also went out to maximize his utility as well, by supporting his family after he is gone (he thought he would of succumbed to lung cancer). One of the main themes of the show is how Walt becomes sinister, and evil. The fact that Walt was a pushover, serves as a strong control on how much Walt has changed. "Breaking Bad" is a southern term, when some uptight guy goes off path and becomes dark. [1] Thus, we can tell that the show is serving its directed purpose — an uptight guy turning into a villan gradually, and questioning the loyalty of the viewers, "can they still like this guy?"

Due to the fact that Walt is becoming more evil, it is the very core of his story in this show. While once attempting to improve his and his family's condition (financial, emotional), he has over time swerved off the track of morality and integrity, and into criminal behavior. This is intentional, as it meets what the show was designed to do.

C2: Character Development

The show starts out with Walt being, basically, your average, high school teacher. He is the hero of the show. We can see proof of this, as he takes huge risks to protect his family (manufacturing drugs).

We see how the drug trade transforms people. As Walt becomes more assertive and authoritarian in his business to gain respect, this eventually and gradually extends to his daily life, because Walt was in the past a less authoritative guy. The show also focuses on in other areas, like when Marie was shoplifting or when Jessie was partying, to give insight into these characters and their relationship to Walt.

C3: Other Details

Music

Based on my limited experience with Dexter, I have not seen that much concerning music. True, there are some scenes with music, as there is in Breaking Bad.

The end music (during the credits) is masterfully crafted to meet what Dexter is about, I'll admit. During the show though, the music is usually generic, short, and nobody really knows where it comes from.

Youtube doesn't provide that many videos that include music that I'm trying to show, but I did include 3 videos of music in BB.

The music from Breaking Bad usually comes from other artists, and the music uniquely blends with the situation to enhance the feelings of that scene, the latest video showing an example of this inquiry, and how the music signifies change and curiousity in the plot.

Dexter's music isn't really memorable in the same sense. It is generic and not common. Dexter doesn't include music at critical moments either. Breaking Bad more often has music to accompany changes in the plot, which amlify's the feeling of a scene. We can deduct that Breaking Bad has better music overall.

Intro

Breaking Bad's intro script creates something that is absolutely essential to successful shows — exceptionalism. With a short, yet memorable intro, that is not like any other show, it creates individuality to Breaking Bad, which makes it more highly regarded among viewers.

If you see Dexter's intro (TUF provided both), what specifically do you think when you recall "Dexter's Intro?" Is it the meat? Is it when he is shaving? When he is walking? However, Breaking Bad's intro is short, and to the point, when you try and recall their intro, most think of the periodic table of elements and the guitar strumming.

Dexter has a good intro, that has a deep complexity to it. Breaking Bad's intro is short, unique, and memorable.

Critical Acclaim

I have a similar structure.

TUF says "After the season 5 debut of breaking bad, Ratings have dropped at an alarming, and crashing 21%."

This is unfair. Every show's season, after the debut, has a drop in viewers. In fact, from available data, Dexter's viewership in Season 6, from Episode 1 to Episode 2 of this season, viewership dropped by *drumroll* — 22%! [2]

Dexter's ratings may have gradually risen over time on average. But Breaking Bad has a similar trend. Both are shows that are rising by large amounts.

Ultimately, both shows have a drop in audience after the season debut. Both do, Dexter's being even more than BB.

TUF has decided to use Metacritic, so I will match this. With [3 -- Dexter] and [4 -- Breaking Bad] you can see the ratings of Season 1 of both shows, and there are links to the other following seasons, where I retrieved my information.

Professional critics have rated and judged the quality of both of these shows. I have calculated the average rating from all of the availably-rated seasons from both shows. Here is what they scored:

Critics:

Breaking Bad: 88.6%

Dexter: 76.17%

As TUF just said, yes, user ratings are also judged, where fans critically judge a show's performance. TUF has wrongly replaced "total ratings" with "positive ratings", giving an incorrect review to both shows. I'll continue to use his sources though here.

I also "broadened the base", by including the mean user ratings of the entire show, not just Season 1. [3] [4]

Viewers:

Breaking Bad: 93.8% (9.38/ 10)

Dexter: 85.3% (8.53/ 10)

Progression of Quality

Now, let's see what Pro means when he is talking about ratings gradually rising. From the same source: Metacritic, I show the professional/ user ratings for both Season 1 and the newest season, for both shows.

Breaking Bad:

Season 1----- Critics: 74% ----------User-ratings: 93%

Season 5----- Critics: 99% ----------User-ratings: 95%

Dexter

Season 1 ----- Critics: 77% ----------User-ratings: 93%

Season 6 ----- Critics: 63% ----------User-ratings: 73%

Breaking Bad trumps Dexter by over 12 percentage points, rated by professional critics.

When it comes to viewer ratings, Breaking Bad crushes Dexter by 8.5 percentage points.

When it comes to quality and ratings over time, Dexter seems to have lost its speed, while Breaking Bad has been highly rated by critics and viewers alike. Breaking Bad has progressively received better ratings, has better ratings among viewers and critics, and this is from a broad view of the show(s) as a whole. Breaking Bad has better quality, we can clearly see the empirical evidence.

Fan Base

Dish doesn't have AMC.

Regarding the amount of "likes", that's insignificant to the overall TV base, which is much larger. Your source (Tubeplus) also shows better ratings for Breaking Bad than Dexter, ironically.

Even if AMC does have a better base size, it doesn't explain why Breaking Bad has better ratings. My show has greater ratings as well as a higher fan base, which both are vital to my point. Dexter has a smaller base, but still lower ratings.

Visually Stunning

Low on characters. To produce each episode of BB, it costs $3 million. [5] This is reflective of the quality that is inscribed into each episode of the series.

Humor

BB has humor that is dark and subtle. An example:

(Walt and Skyler are coming up with a story to tell Hank's family how Walt became rich enough to buy a carwash)

Walt: (reading from script in disgusted voice) I'm weak, I'm out of control, I mean this whole thing makes me look like crap.

Skyler: It has to be a personal story, that's how we sell it and we both look bad.

Walt: How do you look bad exactly? Where is the "I slept with my boss bullet point, I can't seem to find that."

Conclusion

Breaking Bad exceeds Dexter when it comes to ratings by large marks, from critics and viewers alike. Other aspects also show how BB exceeds Dexter, and Pro has yet to prove that Dexter is better than BB when it comes to other aspects, including the character development, humor, etc.

Considering this, vote Contra.

Sources:

[1] http://tinyurl.com...

[2] http://tinyurl.com...

[3] http://tinyurl.com...

[4] http://tinyurl.com...

[5] http://tinyurl.com...

Debate Round No. 3
TUF

Pro

Right now the site is having some weird glitch, and it won't let me post more than 100 character more than I already have, so I am going to post this link here so I can finish my arguments.

http://www.debate.org...

Thanks for the goodresponse!

****MY CASE****

C1: Plot

"Due to the fact that Walt is becoming more evil, it is the very core of his story in this show.While once attempting to improve his and his family's condition (financial, emotional), he has over time swervedoffthe track of morality and integrity, and into criminal behavior."

And I get that this is intentional,but the question is: Is it in the show'sbestinterest togo downthispath? Mostofthe time I get really peeved at the show forthisveryreason.I want towatch a protagonist,overcome challenges, not a greedy, villanous, prideful bastard, pursuing his own self interest. You say Dexter pursues his own needs too. This is true. For him as a serial killer, he cannot really give up killing, though, as it is a partofhim.Dexteris verymuch a good guy, and his code has saved him from the path of evil plenty of times. Dexter will give up his killing in an instant, if it means someone else is in need of his care. Several times, he has ditchedhis crime scenes togo andcare forRitaand the kids, or even Deborah.

http://dexterwiki.wetpaint.com......

Dexter himself is a super hero, prusuing the interests of not only himself, but his family.

Walt on the other hand, is completely the opposite. It may have startedout that way; him trying tosupport his family. However, that aspect is completely lost to the show.Youkeepsaying how the show is doing that intentionally. I know. But that is what is ruining the show!The audience LIKED itwhen he was doing itfora noble cause. Whathis noble about what Walt did in this last episode? ****SPOILER SPOILER****What makes the audience excited for the show now? Walt just killed off Mike, the one of the main characters, simply for dis-agreeing with him. ****END SPOILER****

What is there to excite the audience? Walt is the main character. No one is connected with him anymore, now that he is an evil manipulative bastard. Any chance the show HAD of being better than Dexter, was destroyed by the story line changing him into the antagonist.

In Dexter, we the audience, feel rightthere inthe seatwithhim,wantinghim toexceed and escape un noticed. Why is this? It's because we sympethize with him. His motives are logical and neccesary. Walt's are completely ridiculous on the other hand. He turned down 5 million dollars, and the possibility of the slim chance of saving his family, to pursue his drug empire (as he calls it). And why is this? What does he need the money for? His family is GONE. Marie and Hank have taken his kids, and Skyler loathes him. I loathe him, now, as I am sure many otheraudience members do. The show has completely shocked and destroyed the audience, through seasons 2-5, and it is almost not worth watching anymore.

Anyways, the point here is clear. My opponent has yettoprovehow breaking bad exceeds the plot of dexter, and after watching a few episodes, he should have the basic understanding on how to do this. I feel, however, that I have upheld the BOP on my end, on proving how dexter exceeds breaking bad.

C2: Character Development.

"The show also focuses on in otherareas,like when Marie was shopliftingorwhen Jessie was partying,togiveinsight into these characters and their relationship to Walt."

Here is the problem with the characterdevelopmentinthisshow though. Ratherthan take one thing,andgo deepwith it, it constantly bounces around, suchthat we neverreallyknowwhat is going onwiththe characters at anygiven point within the show. Here's an example. In season 1 Marie gives Hank a ton of crap, and basically goes on a tangent with her little "stealing" problem. That instantly dies off though, and soon inseason 4 Hank is treating marie like crap, as he plays with his little minerals. The characters are so back and forth,it's insane. WalterJr, goes through random little phases, that are not picked up andcarriedthrough the entire thing as well. Skyler jumps from being a caring mother, and concerned wife, to overly horny and cheating, to suicidal, to who the hell knows. Jesse goes from tricked out druggy, to finally getting his life straight, to partying, to hanging with his bro's, to being Walt's lackey. The trend with the characters continues to jump around carelessly.

In Dexter, the characters more or less stay the same, and throughout the show we get to see DEEPER into their character. Their personalities don't change constantly as they do in breaking bad, which gives the viewers more of an oppertunity to connect with each character, on a deeper lever.
Contra

Con


Thanks for your round!


C1: Plot


Dexter has a strange passion for killing. I get that this is "natural" for him, but still, I don't understand why. It doesn't ever say that he was mentally unstable or that he has a taste for blood, its just random.


In Breaking Bad, as I've said, Walt is becoming evil as the show has destined him to become. On the other hand, Jesse is becoming more humane and a compassionate person. It's a reverse trajectory, the team "switches places" on the scale of morality.


Pro questions why we should watch the show if the main character is an "evil manipulative bastard." I ask why should we watch Dexter if he is a "sick twisted killer." Both characters are strange frankly. However, Walter White has succumbed to greed and is showing the viewers what happens to normal people if they were to engage themselves and fall for the tempting mountains of cash, and how corrupting wealth can become, as we see with Walt. It is a different kind of show, which gives us a change in what usually happens. And this explanation for Walt's behavior is more readily explained than Dexter's cold blooded pursuit.


C2: Character Development


"In Dexter, the characters more or less stay the same, and throughout the show we get to see DEEPER into their character. "


This is the problem here. In Dexter, Pro hasn't really given us examples of proving his point. Breaking Bad keeps the show realistic. Imagine this. Let's say that Marie was constantly the "bad guy" with Hank in their marriage. It would of been funny, but would of gotten boring over time. This is why Jersey Shore was just canceled (Thank God). Because the characters were always the same, not really changing.


Breaking Bad shows how the characters develop and interact. With Hank and Marie, Hank becomes a jerk to Marie with his minerals because he is discouraged from his injuries and weakened state.


Breaking Bad shows us insight on how the characters are acting and interacting, as well as developing. I've provided examples proving this point. Pro has not.


C3: Cinematic Effect


Music


Come on man. Average and common was what was what I was really trying to convey. The music is not distinguished to the show. We have both had grammatical/ spelling errors in this debate.


The videos that Pro posted have music, but it was very quiet and only barely played a role in creating the scene. I gave a video that did use music to play up the emotions and feelings of the viewers.


Basic point is that Breaking Bad uses music more effectively, to play up emotions. Dexter's music is common, not distinguished, and doesn't have the same effect as Breaking Bad. Watch either of Pro's 2 videos in this round, or my video in the last round, which proves my point.


Intro


Both actors have won 3 emmys :D


Point being though, indeed Dexter has a more lengthely intro. Breaking Bad's intro though as I said creates individuality to the show, leading to popular awareness.


Breaking Bad's intro plays up the brand image of this show. When you hear it, you instantly recognize it. Dexter has not the same effect, as I said, it needs to play out the full minute and a half for you to recognize it. And Pro is overplaying the brilliance of this intro. It is unique, but it is by no means as recognizable. If you take a portion of it, you won't likely recognize it.


Breaking Bad's intro also has a stronger message. Dexter's intro has only a loose connection with a killer. Breaking Bad conveys the meaning of the show (the main character becoming sinister), shows the force behind this (meth — shows the gases from manufacturing the crystal), and lastly displays the feeling of the show, which is dark and curiousity.


R4: Critical Acclaim


Pro drops this point.


So, we can accept that Breaking Bad is more highly ranked among viewers and critics alike. I will let the voters decide if this is a point they find huge to the debate or not, as these rankings are an average from a huge pool of reviewers.


Pro did resort to using Metacritic, which I followed swiftly and posted the real, empirical evidence from the same site.


R5: Fan Base


I have Dish. Dish does not have AMC. Which is really a bummer for me. :(


Using Tubeplus, Dexter does have a better fan size on this website. Pro has thus found that "fan base" is a good critique to use to judge our shows.


I will use the last season for Dexter's average fan base, and use Breaking Bad's average fan base for season 5, to make this point.


Dexter: 1.92 million viewers/ episode (http://en.wikipedia.org...)


Breaking Bad: 2.57 million viewers/episode (http://en.wikipedia.org...(season_5)


--Also, Breaking Bad's most recent episode had the most views on the entire show's history.


As we can see here, Breaking Bad has a much larger fan base. If we just use Tubeplus (which still gives higher reviews to Breaking Bad than Dexter), Tubeplus only has about 100,000 viewers roughly. This is only about 1/6th of the size of the gap between the fan bases of Breaking Bad and Dexter for television views.


Visually Stunning


Pro didn't say that Dexter spends any more than Breaking Bad here. Note, this isn't a major point in my case.


Humor


Pro hasn't provided an example of Dexter's humor. Frankly, I have trouble staying awake when watching Dexter. Breaking Bad's humor is usually dark and subtle.



The video I included is another example, and the way how Skyler responds, is just amusing, to say the least.


Conclusion:


Pro has dropped the arguments regarding the higher ratings of Breaking Bad compared to Dexter, and has dropped the arguments that objectively, Breaking Bad has gained traction over time.


Breaking Bad has a masterful use of fusing music with the scene, so that the feeling is enhanced creating suspicion and enjoyment. Also, the core message in the show is transmitted well, unlike Dexter's which is strange and confusing.


Breaking Bad also has a huge fan base, and interesting character development, and shows us insight into the lives of others and how they are developing through the show.


Debate Round No. 4
TUF

Pro

Looks like we both made it to the final round! I look forward to the final response :)

****MY CASE****

"Dexter has a strange passion for killing. I get that this is "natural" for him, but still, I don't understand why. It doesn't ever say that he was mentally unstable or that he has a taste for blood, its just random."

Wait... You are joking right? The show talks about Dexter's reasons for being a serial killer throughout all 6 seasons... Now I know you didn't watch past the first few episodes, but a quick Google search could have told you this.

For the audience, I will explain Dexter's killing habits.

Dexter's father was Harry Morgan, his mother Laura Moser. Laura moser was a Crime informant for Detective Morgan. Harry, as revealed later in season 2, had quite a few 'intimate' relationships with his crime informants, and Laura Moser happened to be one of them, in it for the drug trade. Anyways, Laura moser was the mother of two young boys. Dexter, the son she had with Harry, and Rudy, whose father is unknown. The cartel found out about Laura's dealings with the police department, as for lack of a better phrase, were "unhappy". Three drug dealers, trapped Laura and her two kids within a Freight box, and brutally chain sawed Laura, in front of her two little boys. Dexter, at the age of 3, had to watch his mother die, which is why both Dexter and Rudy grew to become serial killers. The two boys for forced to sit crying in their own mothers blood bath for days before the police department found the two of them.

I posted a video above that describes this better. You can fast forward the video to 4:21, to see the part I am talking about (The rest just explains how Dexter remembered this incident), this is all in season 1.



Dexter is a good man, and heart, and mind.

"In Breaking Bad, as I've said, Walt is becoming evil as the show has destined him to become. On the other hand, Jesse is becoming more humane and a compassionate person. It's a reverse trajectory, the team "switches places" on the scale of morality."

I have acknowledged this several times. Walt is the main character still though, this is a bad thing. Why did you completely dis-regard all of my previous comments on this?

"I ask why should we watch Dexter if he is a "sick twisted killer." "

You fail to explain how he is a sick twisted killer. Dexter has morals, and values. He more or less just strongly believes in the death penalty. A strange way of allowing himself to kill murderers. has a family, friends, and a sibling that he loves and cares for. He always strives to do the right thing. His killing of murderers doesn't make him twisted and evil like you say. With Walt, there is no purpose, rhyme or reason for his killings. The fact that he is so evil, is why the show nominally "sucks".

C2: Character Development

"This is the problem here. In Dexter, Pro hasn't really given us examples of proving his point. Breaking Bad keeps the show realistic. Imagine this. Let's say that Marie was constantly the "bad guy" with Hank in their marriage."

And you haven't proven how the character development in breaking bad is better than Dexter's. The point I am trying to get across here is this: Dexter delves deeper into the characters personalities throughout the show, giving the viewers an emotional attachment to them. Breaking Bad gives them different mantra's and personalities in each season. Who are they? We have NO clue, because they are different every season.

"I've provided examples proving this point. Pro has not."

Not being a Dexter fan, you wouldn't understand them anyway. I have watched both shows, and actually know directly what you are talking about. But you want an example, here you go.

Angel remains the sweet, charming, charismatic, and loyal friend through the entire series. Deborah Remains the job passionate, brother caring, emotional, woman who sleeps around with a new man every few episodes. This character is the same, and throughout the show, we get to look deeper into who she is, and why she does the things she does, as a direct influence of her past. Lt Guerta, throughout the entire show remains a manipulative b1tch, with a slight amount of caring for others in her figure, that is easily forgotten with her rush for power. Masuka remains the comic relief through the show, with his woman jokes, his raunchy geeky laugh, and his attractive personality. Quinn remains the douchey, yet used, and beloved detective, in which the audience can decide whether they love him or hate him. Cody remains the innocent father loving boy throughout the show. Astor is probably the only character that really changes.

C3: Cinematic Effect

SUB A: MUSIC

"The videos that Pro posted have music, but it was very quiet and only barely played a role in creating the scene. I gave a video that did use music to play up the emotions and feelings of the viewers. "

What do you mean "barely played a role"!? That's absurd! The music is what adds effect, drama and suspense into the show! The artist is absolutely brilliant. You must not have really listened to it if you think Daniel Licht doesn't excite the audience with his masterful artful, music pieces in the show.
Breaking Bad's music is absolutely un-original and silly, especially the one in that video you posted.
Also How is it common and un-distinguished!? Explain that to me my friend.

SUB B: INTRO

"Both actors have won 3 emmys :D"

Both show's have excellent ratings, what's your point?

"Breaking Bad's intro plays up the brand image of this show. When you hear it, you instantly recognize it. Dexter has not the same effect, as I said, it needs to play out the full minute and a half for you to recognize it. "

False dichotomy. I would recognize that song anywhere, just from hearing the first second of it.

"Breaking Bad's intro also has a stronger message. Dexter's intro has only a loose connection with a killer"

Now your just messing with me.. Breaking Bad's intro, explains literally nothing about he show!? Where is this message? I don't see it. I don't hear it. I just hear some bland boring guitar strum. Dexter's makes sense. It leads the audience to believe he is participating in grueling activities, while he is actually just making breakfast, which is comical, and witty, and the reason it won an Emmy, where as the BB intro did not.


****MY OPPONENTS CASE****

CRITICAL ACCLAIM

"Pro drops this point."

Oh hush, I did not. I pointed out the fallacy in it, which you yourself, ignored. I proved to you how Internet ratings are higher than BB. I also said that TV ratings are irrelevant because not everyone can pay 13$ a month just to watch Dexter, where as AMC is in most basic TV packages (Dish will get it again after the dispute is over).

"Using, Dexter does have a better fan size on this website. Pro has thus found that "fan base" is a good critique to use to judge our shows."

This was your point buddy. I brought it up to fight fire with fire. Though I still think stats should be irrelevant. Either way, I have proven that Ratings for Dexter are better.

"This is only about 1/6th of the size of the gap between the fan bases of Breaking Bad and Dexter for television views."

For the last time, show time is a pay channel.

VISUALLY STUNNING

Breaking Bad isn't Visually stunning, I have already stated this.

HUMOR


Con Doesn't believe Dexter has humor, so I have provided a video with some of the humor.






****VOTERS****

I feel I have won the most convincing arguments point, because I have successful upheld my BOP. I have made a TON of analysis as to why breaking bad is going downhill. The vast majority of it has gone untouched. Also I have shown the substance Dexter contains. Please, Vote Pro. Thankyou.
Contra

Con


Thanks Pro for your final round.


For the record, I wish we didn't have to attack each other's (presumably favorite shows).


C1: Plot


"Dexter has a strange passion for killing"


I appreciate Pro's explanation. Still, it is pretty bizarre, and unrealistic for obvious reasons. Killers don't usually have morals and other logic to back up their killing, unless you're like Walt, who killed some people who threatened his life (I am like 3 episodes behind, I may be wrong).


Breaking Bad involves a person who is terminally ill and is compassionate and caring, and wants his family to do well after he dies. However, Walt has pride, and doesn't accept free money from his former college mates who stabbed Walt in the back and ended up filthy rich.


Walt then does what he sees is best for his family to get the most money — cooking meth. His signature product, infused with his knowledge of chemistry, makes his product very valuable and makes him filthy rich.


Walt then has to keep his product selling and has to manufacture it often. This gets him into many different situations that affect his family and friends. The show focuses on them as well, though not as often. Breaking Bad ultimately shows how a man with good morals and values became corrupted by money and power, which he originally had. It is showing a man who had an evil spirit hiding, which comes ripping up front and center of the plot -- in the form of Walt, when he is sinister and evil.


"Dexter is a good man, and heart, and mind."


Pro's sole evidence for this is that he cared for his "family" in Season 2. On the other hand, Walt is still caring as well, not the total villain that Pro proclaimed him to be.


Recently, Walter White was talking fondly and emotionally about Skyler with Hank and Marie (then Skyler walked into their pool). Walt also recently purchased his son is favorite car, and they bonded over this event.


Walter White is becoming corrupted with money and power. That is the purpose of the show. It stands out, from many other shows. The purpose of the show is to challenge our sympathies with Walt. Can we forgive him consistently for what he is done? Then, like the two recent compassionate events I just mentioned, they tempt our loyalty to Walt even more.


It is prying away at our sympathy for Walt. Dexter does a somewhat similar thing, though Dexter's passion is less in a pattern, meaning that he is two-faced, a family guy and a cold blooded killer at two different times. A cool idea, though Walt blends the two at different rates, tempting our ability to like Walt, keeping up the plot, and our interest and emotion.


C2: Character Development


"he point I am trying to get across here is this: Dexter delves deeper into the characters personalities throughout the show, giving the viewers an emotional attachment to them."


In the last round, this is what TUF said:


"In Dexter, the characters more or less stay the same, and throughout the show we get to see DEEPER into their character."


First, Pro hasn't rebutted my analogy. I said how does a show get interesting if it stays the same. I compared the "static character development" to the cancellation of Jersey Shore, to show how static characters become bland and boring.


The characters in Breaking Bad do not randomly switch their actions and morals. They are connected. For example, Marie has a problem with shoplifting. She gets off of this habit. However, when Hank makes Marie saddened, she goes back to this nasty habit. Jessie starts partying when he loses his good girlfriend. Walt Jr acts like a jerk-kid when Skyler is mean to his Dad, who Walt Jr has began to admire.


Ultimately, Breaking Bad shows us deep insight into the characters involved, and show the influence that Walt's behavior has on them, which tests our faith in Walt to be the good guy even more. The characters are dynamic, realistic, and interesting, each with their unique personalities. For example, we know that Gale was a fan of jazz, a smart chemistry guy, young, a libertarian, and a tolerant person who was very intelligent.


C3: Cienematic Effects


Music


I didn't find that Dexter's music played that much of a role. That may be subjective, which it probably is, and is difficult to explain.


Breaking Bad's music isn't usually original. But if it plays up the right emotions to stir up the interest of a scene, the goal of the music has worked. Which is the case of Breaking Bad. For example, the music before Gus Fring dies is dreary and progresses slowly to build up tension to his death, which the viewer's didn't know what would come next.


Intro


Chill man, it was just a side observation.


Pro does have fast recognition with the intro of the show, meaning he recognizes the show instantly. Pro didn't rebut my stealthy slippery slope argument that if the intro is too long, people don't recognize it all and only remember parts of it.


Key point here is that Breaking Bad's intro is quick, memorable, and can play up a message if you look at it.


-----Other Rebuttals-----


"Oh hush, I did not. I pointed out the fallacy in it, which you yourself, ignored. I proved to you how Internet ratings are higher than BB. I also said that TV ratings are irrelevant because not everyone can pay 13$ a month just to watch Dexter, where as AMC is in most basic TV packages (Dish will get it again after the dispute is over). "


First, I hope that Dish gets AMC before next Summer.


Pro DID NOT show that Internet Ratings are better for Dexter. DID NOT. Specifically look at R3, my arguments, I destroy this argument and show that Breaking Bad's ratings crush Dexter.


Visually Stunning


Pro told some nice details of how the quality of Dexter has good visual images. I did the same thing in my first round.


Humor


Breaking Bad's humor is dark and subtle. However, BB has its humor placed at the most random moments, such as the occasions I have cited. Dexter has humor as well. Though BB has more realistic, resonating humor. For example, the last video I posted, or the time when Walt and Skyler were going over their script about how Walt got filthy rich.


Conclusion:


I have cited and proved how Breaking Bad has better ratings than Dexter. Pro has not refuted this critical point. Here it is again, the average of the running of the whole series for both shows:


Critics:


Breaking Bad: 88.6% [2]


Dexter: 76.17% [1]


Viewers:


Breaking Bad: 93.8% (9.38/ 10)


Dexter: 85.3% (8.53/ 10)



I have shown how Breaking Bad has a greater character development sequence, a deeper plot and theme behind the show, and how the humor and other elements are superior. Thanks Pro for a great, though long debate, both shows are at the minimum; good.


Voters, thanks for reading this long debate, and I recommend a Con vote.


Sources:


[1] http://www.metacritic.com...


[2] http://www.metacritic.com...


Debate Round No. 5
25 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Yep 4 years ago
Yep
I didn't vote because im extremely biased, i prefer Breaking Bad as it is one of my top 3 favorite shows of all time.
Posted by TUF 4 years ago
TUF
Thanks contra matey. Twas fun mate.
Posted by Contra 4 years ago
Contra
"In fact prior to season 2, I would say the show is tied in quality"

Ah, you. Good debate TUF. Dexter does have great music at places, and has a good intro.
Posted by TUF 4 years ago
TUF
"The debate didn't talk nearly enough about what the shows are about."

I agree, I could have elaborated a lot more. In fact, In my initial round 1 argument, I dedicated 4,000 characters to doing just this, but then realized, I wouldn't have room for all the arguments I wanted to make, so instead, I just provided a wiki link. Darn Character limit :/
Posted by TUF 4 years ago
TUF
@ Roy

"Almost no mention was made of the acting script quality, not nearly enough about the story themes."

I think the acting in both shows is phenomonal, and I would never say the acting is bland. In fact, prior to season 2, I would say the show is tied in quality. :D
Posted by RoyLatham 4 years ago
RoyLatham
BTW, Dexter is about the nature of good and evil. The continuing question is whether Dexter is doing good by bringing justice or is he evil for acting without the permission of society. What makes Dexter interesting is his obsession with justice while he brings it about with evil methods. The lead actor, Michael C. Hall, seems absolutely critical to making Dexter a sympathetic character.

Movie fans can compare Dexter to the Clint Eastwood in Pale Rider. It's made clar that the Pale Rider preacher is an avenging angel of God whose violence brings justice. Dexter is not so obvious.

The debate didn't talk nearly enough about what the shows are about.
Posted by Man-is-good 4 years ago
Man-is-good
RFD:
Much of the cases that were presented were entirely subjective and, without any true standard to register, amounted to little more than assertions of opinions by both sides. Both sides eventually became guilty of defending literal descriptions of aspects of their respective show while not actualizing a contention or even an agreed criteria to judge which, for example, which route of character development is superior, whether in a steady actualization confronting a gradual and imminent retrogression. The only true objective side to the debate pertained to that of statistics, which admittedly TUF was inconsistent and despite declaring the use of such as subjective, attempted to demonstrate the vacillations of popularity and even the superiority of Dexter to Breaking Bad in the rating; however, such is not the true crux of both debaters' arguments and function merely as supplements to the more substantial contrasts and juxtapositions of character development, and so forth (as in to reinforce what was the major part of both members' arguments).

Unfortunately, I'll vote on a tie as a result. :(
Posted by Zaradi 4 years ago
Zaradi
Wow, that was a pain to go through, more so than usual.

So I feel that this debate ultimately got dragged down by a lot of personal feelings and subjectivty toward each show. TUF thinks that the long intro is better and never really backs it up with a substantial reason why other than "Just cuz it's longer and cooler!". Contra thinks that the shorter one is better because it's "shorter and better!" Same thing generally applies to the character development, plot, music, display and picturesque environmental effects, and so on and so forth. I'm generally okay with evaluating these kinds of arguments myself, but without the weighing needed to be done in round (that I already pointed out that neither of you really did), it kind of leaves me in a bad spot to evaluate the evidence from there. So I ultimately end up discarding those arguments as, for the most part, pure subjective opinion raging.

From there, I go to look at the flow of the debate and see if I can't gleam any information from the flow of attack and defense. I get nada, both debaters spend plenty of time attacking and defending, and there was no one person who was solely defending most of the time and another solely attacking most of the time. So this takes me to the one place that nobody (save maybe Contra since he started the entire deal) wanted to really happen: statistics debate.

Here I find my objectivity to evaluate on my own without debater weighing needed (although weighing is always loved), and here Contra is really thoroughly trouncing TUF. TUF makes a two-point argument as to why stats shouldn't really be considered in this debate, and Contra drops it for the most part, but since without it I'm put in a hard spot as a judge in evaluating the debate otherwise, I kind of have to disregard those arguments.

So I end up voting for Contra off of the statistical analysis. Voting anywhere else, in my opinion, is feeding the subjectivity. Any questions, PM me.
Posted by Zaradi 4 years ago
Zaradi
-stabs eyeballs-

As a side observation as I consider how to evaluate the round I have two things to comment on:

1. You guys never really weigh the arguments for me. Sure, you go hack-and-slash away at each other's arguments, which is all well and good. But at the end of the day, I have all this clash and no idea what to do with it and how to evaluate the arguments other than "Here they are, who won?". Arbitrary judge intervention is arbitrary.

The point here being explain what I should do with the arguments! What really matters in the debate? What doesn't really have that much of an impact? What should I look to above all? This weighing makes it really easy for a judge to be able to go through debates and pick out flows of offense, especially in messy debates such as this one.

2. God, you guys gotta ramp the entertainment value up. I nearly slit my wrists from having to read through 5 rounds of the same thing over and over again. This is nit-picking, and I don't see what you can do to fix it really, but still! Dx

Anyway, I'm going to think about things and I'll vote when I have it ready. RFD will probably be in comments.
Posted by Contra 4 years ago
Contra
Thanks for taking the time. It unfortunately did turn out to be a long one. Though, it is pretty basic language, not esoteric.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 4 years ago
RoyLatham
TUFContraTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: An odd debate, difficult to judge. Almost no mention was made of the acting script quality, not nearly enough about the story themes. The ratings and critical response are both very good, but not much of measure of quality. (Shakespeare couldn't beat Jersey Shore in those measures.) So, it comes down to Pro ding a better job of presenting what is interesting about the storyline, and the Deter intro and music winning hands down.
Vote Placed by Man-is-good 4 years ago
Man-is-good
TUFContraTied
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Reasons for voting decision: See RFD. Given the short amount of time, I will be brief.
Vote Placed by Zaradi 4 years ago
Zaradi
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Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments.
Vote Placed by phantom 4 years ago
phantom
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Reasons for voting decision: Countering bob
Vote Placed by badbob 4 years ago
badbob
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Reasons for voting decision: The arguments against breaking bad did not seem strong.