The Instigator
harrypawter17
Pro (for)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
Korashk
Con (against)
Winning
54 Points

Macs are all-around better than Windows computers.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/7/2010 Category: Technology
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,089 times Debate No: 11358
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (15)
Votes (9)

 

harrypawter17

Pro

Macs ARE all around better than Windows PCs. This doesn't mean that Windows is not better at anything, for they obviously are. But when it is all summed up, the pros and cons for each counted, Macs outweigh Windows a million to three in pros. I'm here to prove my point.
Korashk

Con

I thank my opponent for creating this debate. Since the burden of proof is on him as both Pro and the instigator I will allow him to make his case before presenting mine.
Debate Round No. 1
harrypawter17

Pro

There are numerous reasons that I can say that Macintosh computers are better than Windows computers.

1. I know someone who owns a Windows computer that runs Windows XP. It takes around five to seven minutes to restart, whereas with my Mac, it only takes around thirty seconds (please note that like my example of a Windows, my Mac is not the latest version of the brand).

2. Apple uses good, quality parts and operating systems that they make themselves. Windows makes the operating system, but another company such as Sony, Dell, or HP makes the computer. With Mac computers, the actual computer and operating system were "made for each other" so everything just works. This way, there's no "What do you mean you only sell computers?" on the phone call to customer service.

3. Macs have many more useful applications for it right out of the box. These applications include Stickies (which you can leave notes for yourself with), iPhoto (which is a great way to view photos or adjust them), iCal (which allows you to carefully plan out your week, month, year, or more), Time Machine (which backs up your Mac in an easy-to-understand way), and iTunes (the top music purchasing utility in the modern world). Now, since iLife comes with Macs, you can have iMovie, Pages, Keynote (slideshow making utility), Garage Band, and iWeb. You don't get this with a Windows computer.

4. Macs aren't loaded up with dumb ads that keep popping up whenever you're trying to work, as Windows computers are. For example, my friend's PC always thrusts things into your face advertising useless apps and games and things like that.

I can't believe Windows users don't switch to Macs. There are too many good reasons that Macs are better.
Korashk

Con

I thank my opponent for his very quick response and will start with some definitions before I move on to my rebuttals and arguments:

~~~~~~~
Definitions
~~~~~~~

Better - something superior in quality
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu...

~~~~~~~
Rebuttals
~~~~~~~

///Point 1///

Start up time is affected very little by the operating system (OS), it is determined by the quality of the parts inside of a computer and the programs that said computer runs at start up. The difference between the two is that you can increase your Windows OS computer's start up time by over-clocking, changing the settings for increased output, upgrading parts, and various other means. You can not legally over-clock a Macintosh OS (Mac) computer or upgrade it's parts on your own.
~

///Point 2///

You say that Macs use better quality parts without providing evidence. You also say that Macs are made to work so there is less hassle. Convenience =/= quality. For instance, it is more convenient for me to spend five dollars on a meal from McDonald's than it would be to cook my own healthy meal. This does not make the McDonald's meal better.
~

///Point 3///

Again, convenience =/= quality, there are many open-source programs available for free on the Internet that do most everything that those programs can do, there are even Windows equivalent programs such as:

*Wordpad, which is similar to stickies;
*[2], is a list of free Windows photo editors
*Windows Calendar is a Microsoft calendar program that actually supports iCal file types.
*CrashPlan is a free online service that backs up documents similar to Time Machine [3].
*iTunes can be used on the Windows OS for free
*Windows Movie Maker comes free with all copies of a Windows OS, this is similar to iMovie
*Microsoft Works comes free with all Windows OS, this is equivalent to your Keynote, word processor, ect...

All of the listed programs are either free if you own a Microsoft OS or just entirely free.
~

///Point 4///

I would like my opponent to clarify what he means by 'dumb ads that keep popping up.' My Windows OS does not advertise anything to me.
~

~~~~~~~
Argument
~~~~~~~

Point 1:
As the owner of a computer with a Microsoft OS you are able to customize said computer however you want, this includes changing basic settings and upgrading parts for a better computing experience. With a MAC you are not allowed to do this because Apple does not actually sell software and hardware. They sell the rights to use software and hardware in ways that they deem fit [4].

Point 2:
When you compare the two OSs there is significantly less software available for a Mac OS than a Microsoft OS. This is especially true when you consider computer gaming. More choices means that you can choose between many similar programs to suit your individual needs.
~

I look forward to my opponent's response.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] http://graphicssoft.about.com...
[3] http://b2.crashplan.com...
[4] specifically 1. General http://images.apple.com...
Debate Round No. 2
harrypawter17

Pro

First of all, I'd like to thank my opponent for continuing the debate.

First, I quote "Start up time is affected very little by the operating system" and I never said it wasn't, so this cannot be used as an argument.

Second, "The difference between the two is that you can increase your Windows OS computer's start up time by over-clocking" and the reason you can do this on a Windows is because you wil never be satisfied with your Windows computer. Plus, my opponent didn't deny that restart on a Windows takes an exceedingly long amount of time, which I know from experience is true.

"You say that Macs use better quality parts without providing evidence." Evidence: www.apple.com. Plus, I said that Macs use parts that were "meant for eachother" which is true, since, like I said, Apple makes both the operating system AND the actual parts. With a Windows computer, you are getting two things from two completely different companies that aren't as reliable as having the same companies making your computer. I mean, what would you rather have?

"For instance, it is more convenient for me to spend five dollars on a meal from McDonald's than it would be to cook my own healthy meal. This does not make the McDonald's meal better." By saying this, you have just proven me right. Windows are less expensive than Macs, making the Windows = the McDonald's meal and Mac = the healthy homecooked meal. You said that just because the McDonald's/Windows may be cheaper, but not better than the homemade meal/Mac.

"Again, convenience =/= quality, there are many open-source programs available for free on the Internet that do most everything that those programs can do, there are even Windows equivalent programs such as:

*Wordpad, which is similar to stickies;
*[2], is a list of free Windows photo editors
*Windows Calendar is a Microsoft calendar program that actually supports iCal file types.
*CrashPlan is a free online service that backs up documents similar to Time Machine [3].
*iTunes can be used on the Windows OS for free
*Windows Movie Maker comes free with all copies of a Windows OS, this is similar to iMovie
*Microsoft Works comes free with all Windows OS, this is equivalent to your Keynote, word processor, ect..."
Since Windows Calendar can run iCal, this supports that its regular interface is not good and people prefer iCal. It's better to have an actual program that is individual from the computer than to use an online service. The server could fail or be busy and you would have no access to it. "When it comes to presentations, most people use Microsoft PowerPoint but for me, Apple Keynote beats it hands down everytime. PowerPoint isn't a bad application (it's one of Microsoft's better efforts in my opinion) but it does not produce the slick, polished results you get in Keynote and putting it together simply isn't as much fun. It says something that Al Gore's award winning Inconvenient Truth presentation/documentary was produced using Keynote." says http://en.onsoftware.com....

"I would like my opponent to clarify what he means by 'dumb ads that keep popping up.'" Clarification: all the pop-ups that prevent you from working. My friend's Windows is always having things pop up as he works, and he runs Windows 7, and this is their latest operating system, so this shows that they haven't advanced much, as most people prefer that they work without the intrusion of annoying pop-ups.

"When you compare the two OSs there is significantly less software available for a Mac OS than a Microsoft OS. This is especially true when you consider computer gaming. More choices means that you can choose between many similar programs to suit your individual needs." To me this makes no sense. There are many operating system for Macs such as Snow Leopard, Leopard, Tiger, Panther, and Cheetah. Some may be old, but there is still variety, unlike you stated.

I look forward to my opponent's response.
Korashk

Con

I again thank my opponent for his timely response.

~~~~~~~
Rebuttals
~~~~~~~

///First, I quote "Start up time is affected very little by the operating system" and I never said it wasn't, so this cannot be used as an argument.///

Here is a quote where my opponent clearly references start up time in different OSs:

"I know someone who owns a Windows computer that runs Windows XP. It takes around five to seven minutes to restart, whereas with my Mac, it only takes around thirty seconds..."
~

///Plus, my opponent didn't deny that restart on a Windows takes an exceedingly long amount of time, which I know from experience is true.///

In my original rebuttal I state that your start up time has little to do with your OS, and a lot to do with your computer's specs, the argument from the OS was the basis for my opponent's point. It simply is not true that all Macs start up faster than all non-Macs.
~

///Evidence: www.apple.com. Plus, I said that Macs use parts that were "meant for eachother" which is true, since, like I said, Apple makes both the operating system AND the actual parts. With a Windows computer, you are getting two things from two completely different companies that aren't as reliable as having the same companies making your computer. I mean, what would you rather have?///

First, apple.com is not a reliable source to use when judging the quality of an Apple product. The site is clearly biased in favor of themselves.

Second, separate parts of computers are all made to go together to a certain degree. If they weren't then most computers simply wouldn't work. I do not know what point my opponent is trying to make here. Simply being manufactured by the same company does not make a combination of things better than a different combination.
~

///By saying this, you have just proven me right. Windows are less expensive than Macs, making the Windows = the McDonald's meal and Mac = the healthy homecooked meal. You said that just because the McDonald's/Windows may be cheaper, but not better than the homemade meal/Mac.///

My opponent clearly misunderstood the analogy. The elements of said analogy do not represent anything other than one thing of poor quality that is convenient and a different thing of good quality that is not. It illustrated that convenience does not equate quality, which is what my opponent is advocating.
~

///Since Windows Calendar can run iCal, this supports that its regular interface is not good and people prefer iCal. It's better to have an actual program that is individual from the computer than to use an online service. The server could fail or be busy and you would have no access to it...///

Most of this point is my opponent's opinion that is not backed up by sources. I won;t deny that Keynote is a useful program, but it also requires more knowhow to use effectively. PowerPoint is much better from a utilitarian point of view. There is much more in this program that requires more than your basic knowledge of the software. PowerPoint is quite easy to use, all you really do is put information and pictures on slides and hit F5 for a full-screen presentation, simple.
~

///Clarification: all the pop-ups that prevent you from working. My friend's Windows is always having things pop up as he works, and he runs Windows 7, and this is their latest operating system, so this shows that they haven't advanced much, as most people prefer that they work without the intrusion of annoying pop-ups.///

I am currently using Vista and the only pop-ups from my OS are ones that require my authorization when starting a few programs. I would like my opponent to cite these so called work interrupting pop-ups so I can effectively refute this point. Simply saying these pop-ups exist is not enough to make a point in a debate.
~

///To me this makes no sense. There are many operating system for Macs such as Snow Leopard, Leopard, Tiger, Panther, and Cheetah. Some may be old, but there is still variety, unlike you stated.///

I was not referring to OSs, I was referring to programs that are compatible for use on any given OS. There are many more that can be run on a Windows OS than can be ran on a Mac OS.
~

Since my opponent has not refuted my first point I extend it.
Debate Round No. 3
harrypawter17

Pro

"Here is a quote where my opponent clearly references start up time in different OS:

'I know someone who owns a Windows computer that runs Windows XP. It takes around five to seven minutes to restart, whereas with my Mac, it only takes around thirty seconds'"

I wasn't saying that start up time had anything to do with OS, I was merely stating the operating system my friend was using. Thus the argument is invalid, and can be discarded from the debate.

"Iolo Technlogies, which sells PC tune-up software, said its lab unit found that a brand-new machine running Windows 7 takes a minute and 34 seconds to become usable" says CNET.com. Watch this video to see how a Mac compares to a PC in start up and boot down time: . I CAN prove that Macs are faster when they restart and boot down quicker, and even boot up faster. Although the video showed that the PC booted up 1/2 a second faster, the PC had a better processer. If they both had equal processers it would only make sense for the Mac to start up faster.

"Evidence: www.apple.com. Plus, I said that Macs use parts that were "meant for eachother" which is true, since, like I said, Apple makes both the operating system AND the actual parts. With a Windows computer, you are getting two things from two completely different companies that aren't as reliable as having the same companies making your computer.

"Apple.com is not a reliable source to use when judging the quality of an Apple product. The site is clearly biased in favor of themselves."

I only used Apple.com to get the knowledge that Apple DOES make both the actual parts and the OS. I used my common sense to figure out that it's better to have both made by the same company. Think about it: You have the choice of a hamburger where the lettuce and tomatoes were grown in your backyard, the cheese was made by you, the meat was made from one of YOUR cows, and you baked the bread from your own oven, using all natural ingredients, or you could have the lettuce imported from Uruguay, the buns from Japan, and and the meat from Mongolia. Which sounds better? The homegrown one. You want to know why? Because it's all from the same place.

"My opponent clearly misunderstood the analogy. The elements of said analogy do not represent anything other than one thing of poor quality that is convenient and a different thing of good quality that is not. It illustrated that convenience does not equate quality." I still don't understand what my opponent is trying to say. Convenience DOESN'T equate quality, which is totally true. Therefore, the Windows being the more convenient with a cheaper price doesn't make it quality, which it isn't. So thus I can logically conclude that this is a recession made by my opponent or a miswritten analogy of Windows to Macs.

"I won;t deny that Keynote is a useful program, but it also requires more knowhow to use effectively. PowerPoint is much better from a utilitarian point of view. There is much more in this program that requires more than your basic knowledge of the software. PowerPoint is quite easy to use, all you really do is put information and pictures on slides and hit F5 for a full-screen presentation, simple." says my opponent. But he backs up his obvious opinion, being the contender to Macs being all-around better than Windows, with absolutely no sources or proof. Here's my proof that keynote is easier to use than PowerPoint: My friend's daughter (8) sat down at my Macintosh laptop and started messing around with Keynote. She had absolutely no problem knowing what the things meant. She said that it was "way easier to use than my daddy's computer". Here's some more proof: "Keynote has hit the ground running pretty well. You can import PowerPoint presentations, and you can export your presentations into PPT files, PDF, or QuickTime for distribution. A MacBook or MacBook Pro with Keynote makes an excellent 'road warrior' platform for presenting your ideas effectively and with style. As mentioned, I've removed PowerPoint from my Mac notebook; Keynote does it all. Watch for more and more people using Keynote." says macdevcenter.com.

"I have this one hell of a problem. My computer just keep having a pop up which states "You have a security problem". This stupid as i ran my scanners like three times in a row, with no virus. It ask me to download some stupid anti spy-ware programme which i have to pay for-AntiVirus2008XP. My initial thoughts were that after downloading, problems would be solved, but no, i continued. Anything i do will be interfered by it, even typing this. I tried many solutions, but none work. WOULD SOMEONE HELP ME GET RID OF IT? Configuration: Windows XP" This is what I mean. This doesn't happen on a Mac.

When my opponent stated that he wasn't talking about OSs, I understood. This is true and may be the only good thing about Windows computers.

I would like to thank my opponent for his
Korashk

Con

I thank my opponent for his response.

~~~~~~~
Rebuttals
~~~~~~~

Here is a video that illustrates that a computer's start up time is based on the parts and configuration of that computer. Not the operating system, which my opponent claims to never made a point about. Even though it is very clear that his argument is that Macs start up faster than Windows PCs. [6]
~

///Think about it: You have the choice of a hamburger where the lettuce and tomatoes were grown in your backyard, the cheese was made by you, the meat was made from one of YOUR cows, and you baked the bread from your own oven, using all natural ingredients, or you could have the lettuce imported from Uruguay, the buns from Japan, and and the meat from Mongolia. Which sounds better? The homegrown one. You want to know why? Because it's all from the same place.///

This is a logical fallacy commonly referred to as the genetic fallacy. A thing's country of origin has no inherent bearing on how well it performs, just like a thing's company name has no inherent bearing on how well a computer part performs. The outsourced burger could very well be exponentially better than the homegrown one.
~

///Therefore, the Windows being the more convenient with a cheaper price doesn't make it quality, which it isn't. So thus I can logically conclude that this is a recession made by my opponent or a miswritten analogy of Windows to Macs.///

I do not believe that this is that hard of a point to understand. My opponent's original contention was that since Macs come with more stuff that they are better. I refuted this by explaining how convenience does not equal quality with the food analogy. Effectively refuting my opponent's point. However my opponent persisted to make the claim that the analogy was directly referencing Macs and Windows PCs. This is incorrect, I say again that the analogy only showed that . He even adds support to my side by stating that Windows PCs are cheaper.
~

I will drop my point about Keynote and PowerPoint. One specific Mac/Windows program being superior to another Mac/Windows program really has no significant bearing on the resolution of whether or not Macs are superior to Windows PCs. The debate is about the computers as a whole not simply one minor aspect.
~

Your friend's problem is not the Windows XP operating system's fault. You see, AntiVirus2008XP is a program installed on your computer because of a Trojan Horse virus infection. Here are instructions as to how your friend can correct this problem [5]. Therefore my opponent's contention that these pop-ups are because of the OS is voided.
~

In conclusion I have refuted all of my opponent's original contentions. My opponent has conceded that the software selection that is usable for Windows OSs is better than Macs and that this is a good thing, and he has not even mentioned the fact that the license agreement for Macintosh prevents you from using the software in the way that you deem fit. I strongly urge a Con vote.

[5] http://www.spyware-techie.com...
[6] Video
Debate Round No. 4
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by FranklinR 7 years ago
FranklinR
harrypawter17 is seriously outclassed in this debate (if you can call it that.)

Present apple.com as the source for proving Macs are superior? Fail.

I present my own Windows laptop:
Year purchased: 2007
Cost: $999
Manufacturer: HP
Model: Pavilion DV-9700 17" laptop
CPU: 2.2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
Memory: 4 GB
HD: 320 GB
Video: Nvidia GPU with dedicated 512 MB memory
Other features: Bluetooth, 802.11b/g/n, 1 MB cam, HDMI, remote...

Comparable Mac laptops cost well over $2000 in 2008. Mac fans have said Apple laptops last longer and hold their value better.

I present my computer again:
Laptops comparably equipped as mine sell for $400~$600 on eBay. For $949 today, I can purchase a HP Pavilion with Intel Quad Core i7-720QM, 4 GB RAM, Nvidia GPU with 1 GB dedicated memory.

Care to guess what a comparable MacBook Pro cost? $2499.
Posted by tBoonePickens 7 years ago
tBoonePickens
Macs are basically big iPods. Macs are all about style over substance. And I hate to break it to you but Macs are PCs. They just run OS x instead of...well, anything else (Windows, Linux, etc.)

Macs can never have more pros than PCs because they are just a 3 models (6 if you count laptops or "MacBooks") and non-Mac PCs are...everything else. To put it as a car analogy: Macs can be thought of as Mercedes Benz SL-Class (I say SL-Class because Mercedes has much more diversity than Apple so it's best to stick to just 1 model.) These are great vehicles with many pros: good looks, innovative, high quality, fast, expensive, etc. Great!

So what are PCs?...They're everything else! So this means that PCs are Kia, Hyundai, Honda, Toyota (ehrr), Acura, Lexus, Porsche, Ferrari, GM, Lamborghini, custom car, etc. Get the picture? So if you compare a Mac (Mercedes) to a PC (Kia) of course it's better but it's not a good or fair comparison. Compare it to an Acura or Lexus or BMW and then you'll see the Mac not only matched but in many respects BLOWN away!
Posted by redbrave70 7 years ago
redbrave70
o god harry...save the professional bull for someone that cares...your commenting...not debating...and thats great im happy to hear your using pointless apps to there full potential...congrats...enjoy your opinionated based debate.
Posted by harrypawter17 7 years ago
harrypawter17
I don't understand what my opponent meant by "using applications in the way you see fit". Of course you may use any application on either a Mac or a Windows however you see fit, to some extent. For example, iPhoto cannot be used to store Music, as Excel cannot be used to browse pictures.
Posted by harrypawter17 7 years ago
harrypawter17
I presently use Keynote, iTunes, iCal, Garage Band, Pages, Numbers, and iPhoto. Redbrave70 states that boot up time has nothing to do with how good a computer is, though he uses this as an argument as to why his Mac his "bad".
Posted by redbrave70 7 years ago
redbrave70
I am typing this on a Windows OS, no pop ups, when I need to print something out and it takes a minute or two, no one feels awkward lol. Boot up really has nothing to do with what makes it best. Also out of the box yes thats great, but you have to also look at who actually uses that stuff? This computer I'm using now (HP laptop something or other) had all kinds of stuff that I could use but all I need it for is to look things up on the internet, and write papers. I have owned a Mac in the past... Worst computer ever for reasons concerning speed, boot up and just to me, user UNfriendly programs... Just my opinion and experience though
Posted by Korashk 7 years ago
Korashk
I'm having a lot of trouble uploading the video. I might not get my argument posted until tomorrow morning.
Posted by Korashk 7 years ago
Korashk
You also never even acknowledged my point that you are not allowed to work with the software in the way that you see fit.
Posted by harrypawter17 7 years ago
harrypawter17
If the argument WERE based on "ability of using almost infinite free online programs that work with the OS" then yes, Windows would win, redbrave70. But this is not what the argument is about. It is about Macs being altogether better than Windows-based computers. In fact, my opponent hasn't stated many other things to promote Windows except that in his opinion, Keynote isn't as easy as PPT (which was backed up by no sources) and that you can get more things off the internet for Windows (which I know is true).
Posted by harrypawter17 7 years ago
harrypawter17
I think that RedBrave70 was obviously skimming the text, for I made it clear that Macs come with more useful things out of the box, it's better that a Mac's OS and parts were made by the same company, Keynote beats PowerPoint, iLife beats the Microsoft Office Suite, AND that with a Windows computer you get all those annoying pop ups that won't stop. Startup time does matter, like if you need to print something pronto, you probably don't want to be waiting around, making the person you're giving the paper too feel awkward. I could go on to list many other reasons, but I just wanted to state what I covered in my arguments. Thanks!
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