The Instigator
DoubleXMinus
Con (against)
Winning
89 Points
The Contender
Solarman1969
Pro (for)
Losing
18 Points

Male Homosexuality is a Mental Illness

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/1/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 6,206 times Debate No: 2345
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (48)
Votes (33)

 

DoubleXMinus

Con

I have specified an opponent for this debate at his request. I've been acquainted with this man's beliefs through prior clashing and they are:

"that male homosexuality is a mental illness

that male homosexuality is in many ways incredibly self-destructive

that the "gay lifestyle" mostly constists of crusing clubs, and bathhouses ,and picking up randoms (ideally as young and attractive as possible) for random sex over and over

and there is a contingent amount of SPEED, and EX and other drugs, which accompany the "rave"

thus, mental problems, suicide, depression and early death are common results from such a "lifestyle""

Okay, here we go.

In order to prove male homosexuality is a mental illness you must first prove it is mental, and then secondly an illness.

Mental: 1. Of or relating to the mind; intellectual: mental powers.
2. Executed or performed by the mind; existing in the mind: mental images of happy times.

Illness: 1. a) Poor health resulting from disease of body or mind; sickness.
b) A disease.

I would also like to call into this debate my questioning of what Solerman's idea of homosexuality really is. According to "Homosexuality and the Kinsey Report" 37 percent of the total male population has had at least one homosexual experience to the point of orgasm. That would be two males out of every five. Are you saying, Solerman – that two men out of every five you meet are mentally ill? Once a man engages sexually with another man, is he automatically sick or does it take two or three times?

http://www.well.com...

For now, let me address him as is: I do not believe homosexuality is self-destructive. Instead, I propose it is the individual's attitude that may lead to self-destruction. This would call into question that person's belief system and what that's leading to instead of assuming that homosexuality in itself is what's causing harm.

According to the link I have provided, one out of every four men are distinctively homosexual (engage in sexual behavior with other males consistently). I would like Solerman to provide proof of how he knows what the entire gay male population lives like. This would be the only justification for him defining homosexuality as an illness all the way across the board that leads to self-destructive behavior.

I would also like to note that the lifestyle he has described is not restricted to only gay men, so is it not safe to come to the conclusion that homosexuality is not the underlying cause? We know for sure that not every gay male participates, what of them? Are only some gay men mentally ill which in turn leads to this lifestyle resulting in "suicide, depression, and early death"? If only some gay men are mentally ill, then how can homosexuality in itself be a mental illness?

One last thing, he has also specified that there is nothing wrong with female homosexuality in his view. I bring this to the table because it presents an obvious logical error in his thinking…………………………… do you see it?... I believe that this means he is clearly biased and motivated by personal feelings instead of intellectual consideration. Please defend this view and show me otherwise, Solerman.

Let's now clarify and continue; the ball's in your court.
Solarman1969

Pro

I am going to argue the pro-side here from a basic standpoint

Make homosexuality, until 1975 was diagnosed as a mental illness.

Male homosexsuals tend to live lifestyles that are dangerous from a health standpoint.

They have repeated anal sex with tons of randoms in dark places, and risk getting AIDS, and other STDs, or more recently, MSRA.

If someone is leading a life that is leading to their destruction, that is basic mental illness.

Anyone who think of harming themselves or others is mentally ill.

if you are having random sex with people then you are a risk to others and yourself.

there are serious consequences to immoral sexual behavior.

And here is another take on the perspective

Many gay men pretend thay are women. they are not.

if you pretend you are something you are clearly not, this is delusional.

This is starting to make its way into the schools now- encouraging homosexual behavior and legitimizing it with marriage between and man and a woman, which is clearly the way we are designed.

And this is why I am going to take this position- the basic human family is a man, woman and children.

This is what I believe brings the most happiness in life.

I think that for many, the homosexual lifestyle is a dead end, and not satisfying.

I also think part of the mental illness of male homosexuals is the perverted desire for children and very very young boys.

there is a clear obsession with youth and there is not an insignificant percentage of male homosexuals that promote relations with children as young as 5 years old.

For now, a clear portion of society CONDEMNS this behavior, and there are murky laws like statuatory rape etc

Once society allows the fundemental building block of society, the family, to be breached, the society will decline,

Rome is a perfect example of this in history.

the main point is that unattached, non-commited sexual realtions are harmful to the person and the soul.

Finding someone to love and care about is paramount.

I think that the man-woman relationship is incredible and perfect , and it provides the best environment for having and raising kids.

its a free country, and consenting adults have the right to behave in whatever sexual way that they want

I am mostly for manogamy.

As much as any relationship is manogmaous, it is a good relationship.

But with freedom comes responsibility.

To summarize, here are the mental illness aspects to male homosexuality

(1) dangerous repeated unhealthy sex - anal , random

this is a danger to their and others health and well being

(2) obsession with youth, and attempts to sexualize young boys

this is a danger to the children

(3) delusion of thinking one is a "female trapped in a mans body"

(4) attempts to legitimize gay relationship as EQUAL or SUPERIOR to, one man and one woman , and marriage.

to teach homosexual details to children as young as 5
Debate Round No. 1
DoubleXMinus

Con

You have not done any of the things I asked of you or answered any of my questions. As Mindjob correctly wasted no time pointing out, you also provided no proof for any of your statements. I guess that leaves me the burden of providing all the sound information myself... you seem to be beneficial to no one.

It was 1973 that they officially removed homosexuality from all lists defining it as a mental illness(1). However, it was 1950 that Dr. Evelyn Hooker had already proven any mental disability to be a myth(2) and Sigmund Freud wrote in 1905 how he, too – found it to be of no disability(3). Before these times and the advancements of psychological studies, what was known to be true was merely popular opinion motivated by the ignorance of the masses. Only in a sandwiched small period of time was that true, though – because there is overwhelming evidence that in ancient times homosexual relationships were considered the societal norm. (4)

1. http://www.narth.com...
2. http://www.psychologymatters.org...
3. http://psychology.ucdavis.edu...
4. http://www.buzzle.com...

Gay sex is no more dangerous than any other form of sex if practiced safely. This is common sense and it's too bad you seem to be employing a lack of that in thinking that no gay male would ever be interested in practicing safely. If you refer to my second link up above, you will see that there is no difference between a heterosexual and homosexual male when it comes to their intellect and all other psychological competence. This proves your theory that gay males are somehow rapist monsters that would run around naked for convenience if they could is as ridiculous as your personal competence level seems to be.

I agree that if you're having random sex with people you may be a danger to yourself and others, but that has nothing to do with male homosexuality. Let's stay on subject. In trying to do that, it would also rule out gender confused individuals who may later become transsexuals. That is a whole other debate in which I'm sure I'd run into just as much nonsense... And, where is your proof that anything is penetrating any school? Not only does it not make sense the way you typed that, it's a completely backless claim.

Also, what you think may or may not make a certain person happy is not withstanding. I have yet another link for you published by the American Psychological Association; they found in their study that same-sex couples are just as committed and happy as heterosexual couples... Although, this too I find to be pretty self-evident.

http://ukpress.google.com...

I'm going to wrap this up, so lastly I will address your belief that most gay men seem to be pedophiles. I'm finding this to be a complicated matter because it seems statistics are easily manipulated and unreliable in the first place when it comes to sexual abuse and molestation. I'm finding that to even understand what the more accurate statistics mean, you need a basic understanding of the psychology of pedophiles.

"A psychological profile of pedophilia escapes development because perpetrators appear to constitute a heterogenous group. However, some common characteristics prevail among both pedophiles and child molesters. The great majority of pedophiles are male, and they may be heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual in orientation. Preference for children as sex partners may not be exclusive, and more often than not, pedophiles have no gender preference in prepubescent children."

http://findarticles.com...

And:

"Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bisexuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in sex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women....*There were no men who were primarily sexually attracted to other adult males*..." (p.180)."

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu...

I hope this clarifies some things for you, Solerman – and maybe in your next reply you'll address at least one thing I've said.

(PS, The fall of Rome was due in large part to the fact that the ruling body was spread too thin. The other major factors include: Depleting finances, rise of Christianity, Germanic invasion, military depletion, divisions of the empire and civil war.)
Solarman1969

Pro

All of your pathetic arguments and from folks like Kinsey- who was a known homosexual pervert child molester, and the American Psychological Assoc, which is a liberal group trying to lie and distort the obvious facts that I have put forth

I dont really need to rebut any of your silly arguments, since they are all put forth from these biased sources who have a clear agenda - pushing and legitimizing homosexuality

Again, my arguments are all true

(1) Gay men are typically promiscuous, and have no concern about the health conseqeunces to themselves and others

(2) Many gay men think they are women- which is delusional

(3) there is a pathological obsission with youth and the sexualizaion of young boys in the gay community

(4) there is a clearly stated desire and movement to legitimize gay sex along with the way nature intended , with ,man and woman, and to equate Gay marriage with marriage and shove it down the throat of traditional religious folks

(5) the depression that occurs from the pain of the sexaully degenerate lifestyle often leads to horrible problems with drugs like speed and ex

you have NO IDEA what you are talking about because

(1) you are only 19

(2) you are a girl

(3) you have had no experience living in a city like San Francisco, so you can see through the PROPAGANDA and see the facts of the lifestyle up close and personal

I rest my case

The psychological association was CORRECT in terming male homsexuality a mental illness, and should reinstate it as so
Debate Round No. 2
DoubleXMinus

Con

First and foremost, I would strongly encourage anybody reading this to visit all of my sites I have posted and decide for themselves their validity. I think most of us are more familiar with Solarman than we'd like to be and are well aware of his arguing tactics. It doesn't matter what you show him or what's right in front of his face, if it disagrees with his beliefs he'll discount it as nothing but another liberal (you know, that other thing he thinks is a mental disease) view trying to destroy all that is just and good in this world.

To you, Solarman – I brought the Kinsey Report up only to ask you of your definition of homosexuality. And as far as the American Psychological Association, it has 148,000 members and is "the largest association of psychologists worldwide." Hmm, which one is more enlightened: You?... Or an organization that represents 148,000 psychologists? The answer to that question is the end all of this whole argument on its own, because the one thing you and I do agree on is that homosexuality is no longer classified a mental illness since 197*3*. They certainly didn't just jump to that conclusion and once you finally get more than 148,000 researchers, educators, clinicians, consultants, and students to represent something as a whole, do you really think there's a thing they overlooked?

http://www.apa.org...

1. If single gay men are having more sex than single straight men, it's all because of the difference in who they're going after. Gay men are bound to find more success in searching for casual sexual partners than straight men because they're after other men. There is no difference in the want and need between the two, the only difference lies in the receptiveness of their partners. Simple human biology, men are more sexual in nature than women, so take women out of the picture the sex level is bound to climb. Straight men should look at gay men favourably, actually – because they're living out every straight man's dream in that area...

2. Crossdressing and other feminine behavior that may lead you to the impression that male homosexuals want to be women are found in heterosexual males as well. You never really know what's going on with these people until you've talked to them, but I'm willing to bet you've never actually talked to one...

http://crossdresser2.blogspot.com...
http://loveandhealth.worldgroups.com...

3. There is no proof of any more or less sexualizing of young boys in the gay community than there is sexualizing of young females *and* males in the heterosexual community. I've already proven this misconception wrong, see round 2. Now, I understand the notion of pedophiles may be complicated for you, but the complexities are crucial to understand in the area of psychology, molestation and rape studies alone, and the process of reporting. Once you *understand* the complexities, you finally understand how easily exploited this information is. Hence, it is the perfect breeding ground for hate among ignorant, homophobic people who search and search for a valid reason to feel the way they do. "A man molested that young boy!? He must be gay!" Yeah, no.

4. Yes, gay people want to get married. This is not because they want to piss everybody else off, it's because they want the same rights as everybody else. How can you be so selfish and thinking the world revolves around you to think two people would want to legally commit their whole lives to one another just to shove that in your face?

5. I've already disputed this one, too. And have backed it up with proof, what a concept!

Starting over again.

1. That I am "only 19" isn't going to save ya, buddy. What you should be worried about is this: Why does this 19 year old person see the world more realistically than I do? And why can't I debate more affectively than these "kids" I constantly take a knee to?... Why can I barely write the English language and what happened to evolving vocabularies?

2. That I am a girl makes no difference. Do you think as a straight man you're more qualified than I am in talking about the tendencies and lifestyles of gay men? I don't really see where you're coming from there, are you just homophobic or are you sexist too?

3. I am originally from Las Vegas, Nevada (home of legalized gambling, prostitution and a large drug trade) and now live in Austin, Texas (very large gay population). As far as the gay scene, I am homosexual myself and enjoy select gay bars among other things... I think I've been sufficiently acquainted with that culture and attitude. However, in the end it doesn't matter... the actual facts are on my side and all you're giving back is nonsensical dribble born of very questionable personal opinion.
Solarman1969

Pro

In this round I will simply point out the faultiness and agenda of your sources

My points are all completely valid and havent changed

(1) Gay men are typically promiscuous, and have no concern about the health conseqeunces to themselves and others

(2) Many gay men think they are women- which is delusional

(3) there is a pathological obsission with youth and the sexualizaion of young boys in the gay community

(4) there is a clearly stated desire and movement to legitimize gay sex along with the way nature intended , with ,man and woman, and to equate Gay marriage with marriage and shove it down the throat of traditional religious folks

(5) the depression that occurs from the pain of the sexaully degenerate lifestyle often leads to horrible problems with drugs like speed and ex

YOUR POINTS

To you, Solarman – I brought the Kinsey Report up only to ask you of your definition of homosexuality.

ANSWER

the stupid Kinsey report, written by a known homosexual and child molester psychopath, is most often cited as evidence by the homosexual activists and the psychological community. It is in fact the flawed basis of much "research" by the psychologists who are helping push the gay/ Nambla agenda

It is SO flawed and SO biased, that it actually supports my point of view that male homosxuality is a mental illness

Lets look at Kinsey and his 'report'

KINSEY, ALFRED (from wikipedia)

Both Kinsey's work and private life have been the subject of an enduring controversy over the study of human sexuality (sometimes called sexology), Kinsey's ethical decisions, research methodology and the impact of Kinsey's work on sexual morality.

In 1981 questions were raised of how Kinsey and his staff gathered the information to produce some of the data in the Kinsey Reports. Attention was directed to Tables 30-34 of Sexual Behavior in the Human Male, which report observations of orgasms in over three-hundred children between the ages of five months and fourteen years.[4] Former and current directors of The Kinsey Institute confirmed that some of the information was gathered from nine pedophiles and that Kinsey chose not to report the pedophiles to the authorities, balancing what Kinsey saw as the need for their anonymity against the likelihood that their crimes would continue.[5][6]

Kinsey had been rumored to participate in unusual sexual practices. James H. Jones's biography, Alfred C. Kinsey: A Public/Private Life, describes Kinsey as bisexual and experimenting in masochism. He encouraged group sex involving his graduate students, wife and staff. Kinsey filmed sexual acts in the attic of his home as part of his research.[7] Biographer Jonathan Gathorne-Hardy explained that using Kinsey's home for the filming of sexual acts was done to ensure the films' secrecy, which would certainly have caused a scandal had the public become aware of them.[8][9]

James H. Jones wrote that Kinsey's appetite for unconventional sex and his disdain for conventional sexual morality, drove Kinsey's agenda to strip sexuality of guilt and to undermine traditional sexual morality. Critics contend that Kinsey allowed his agenda to bias his work.[10] They point to Kinsey's over representation of prisoners and prostitutes, his classification of selected single people as "married"[11] and his refusal to use African Americans in his research.[12]

Ok so we are supposed to listen to THIS guy?

A pedophile, pervert and weirdo who had CONTEMPT for the social morays which essentiually HOLD SOCIETIES TOGETHER?

KINSEY REPORT (Wikipedia)

The Kinsey Reports are two books on human sexual behavior, Sexual Behavior in the Human Male (1948) and Sexual Behavior in the Human Female (1953), by Dr. Alfred Kinsey, Wardell Pomeroy and others. Kinsey was a zoologist at Indiana University and the founder of the Institute for Sex Research.

The research astounded the general public and was immediately controversial and sensational. The findings caused shock and outrage, both because they challenged conventional beliefs about sexuality and because they discussed subjects that had previously been taboo.

Critics have stated that some of the data in the reports could not been obtained without observation or participation in child sexual abuse, or through collaborations with child molesters.[1] The Kinsey Institute denies this charge, though it acknowledges that Kinsey interviewed men who had sexual experiences with children,[2] and some former and current directors of the Institute described those men as "pedophiles".[3

NOW I WILL EXAMINE YOUR PSYCHOLOGY

Lets look at your statement here becuase it is interesting and provides a window into YOUR perspective, the militant homosexual propagandist

"1. If single gay men are having more sex than single straight men, it's all because of the difference in who they're going after. Gay men are bound to find more success in searching for casual sexual partners than straight men because they're after other men. There is no difference in the want and need between the two, the only difference lies in the receptiveness of their partners. Simple human biology, men are more sexual in nature than women, so take women out of the picture the sex level is bound to climb. Straight men should look at gay men favourably, actually – because they're living out every straight man's dream in that area..."

This provides a clear window into the homosexual propagandist

You make so many wrong assertions and assumptions here that it is clear you are just a young confused person

You accept my premise (MALE HOMOSEXUALS ARE DANGEROUSLY PROMISCUOUS)

"single gay men are having more sex than single straight men"

now you see this as "SUCCESS" - being more of a slut ho-bag that is

"success in searching for casual sexual partners"

so your premise here is that multiple casual sexual partners is success.

I argue that as FAILURE, not a success, being a slut ho-bag

You FAIL if you act on animal sexual impulses with strangers, you are WEAK, not sucessful.

SUCCESS is being able to learn to control your mind, and thus, yourself.

Your sexual behavior is the MOST important of your need for control, especially as a MAN.

Men for thes most part CANNOT CONTROL themselves, and this leads to ALL KINDS of trouble in this world.

EVERYONE has sexual impulses and thoughts- and dreams - most of them should be ignored or simply interpreted and released.

NEXT POINT BY YOU

"There is no difference in the want and need between the two"

This is COMPLETELY WRONG, on EVERY LEVEL

the SPIRITUAL, SEXUAL, INTIMATE, YING/YANG NATURE of the male-female relationship is the ultimate in this world.

This is the natural design, of our bodies and our souls.

There is NOTHING LIKE a man and woman in a realationship, and the family.

NEXT POINT BY YOU

" Simple human biology, men are more sexual in nature than women, so take women out of the picture the sex level is bound to climb."

this is complete BS

Sexual behavior is an entirely VOLUNTARY act, unless a crime is committed.

How do you explain monks who spend little or no time around women and have no sex, and are totally at peace?

The Dalai lama has been celiabate his whole life, as has Gurumayi to give you a female example as well.

they are completely enlightened beings and have never had sex with anyone, and probably dont even have desire, seeing human beings as more than physical bodies.

What you are saying is actually quite CORROSIVE if you think about it.

What you argue is that PROMISCUITY of ANY KIND is GOOD, or you simply argue that MEN are INCAPABLE of suppressing ANY sexual impulse.

" Straight men should look at gay men favourably, actually – because they're living out every straight man's dream in that area..."

Someday maybe you will grow up and realize
Debate Round No. 3
48 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by HellKat 9 years ago
HellKat
I can try and analyze words all I want? Uh ok...

(Parse:to analyze (a sentence) in terms of grammatical constituents, identifying the parts of speech, syntactic relations, etc.)

So if you know so much, what does jihad mean?

Believe what you want, in the end you're still wrong.
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
You can try and parse words all you want

the bottom line is women are treated lower than Chattle in all muslim nations
Posted by HellKat 9 years ago
HellKat
Qur'an 4:43 "Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving."

I believe this was what sould have been said:

O believers! Do not offer your Salah when you are drunk until you know what you are saying; nor after seminal emission, except when you are travelling, unless you wash your whole body. If you are sick, or on a journey, or one of you has used the toilet, or has had contact with women (sexual relation with wives) and can find no water, then make Tayammüm: take some clean earth and rub your faces and hands with it. Allah is Lenient, Forgiving.

Cleansing the body after certain acts is so that you can pray with a clean mind and body. Nowhere does that implicate women being dirty.
Posted by HellKat 9 years ago
HellKat
Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."

This is wrong by the way.

Qu'ran 4:15 "If any of your women is guilty of fornication, bring four of your men to give evidence; if they testify against them, retain them in the houses until death or until God provides some other way for them."

You also left out a part:

"...If two men among you are guilty of such acts, then punish both of them, but if they repent and reform, let them be, for God accepts repentance and is merciful."

If you would like more translations of this:

YUSUFALI: If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.

PICKTHAL: As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation).

SHAKIR: And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them.

Four reliable witnesses, not one witness counted as four whether they are reliable or not.
Posted by HellKat 9 years ago
HellKat
I'm sorry I don't rely on websites to tell me what's true and what's not. Canada is not socialist you conspiracy crazed moron.
Here's some straight info for you:

"if anyone spreads rumours about their (a womans) chastity without the support of four eye witnesses to the act itself, they themselves are liable to punishment in this life and the hereafter" (24:23)

"people making such accusations against chaste women must produce four eye witnesses to the act or suffer a flogging themselves and have their evidence rejected ever after."(24:4)

This was "given" to muhammad after his wife, who had gone to the desert to find a necklace she lost, was rescued and brought back by a young man, and the people of the town spread rumours that she had been unfaithful to Muhammad.

If Muhammad supposedly wrote that women should not be treated equally, why would he marry a woman with higher status than he, and accept her proposal to him? Doesn't make sense to me.

The Muslims you speak of are the Taliban, they are a minority of bad Muslims. You are being ignorant by judging them all by one small group.
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
again, you are a child educated is Socialist liberal Canada

you need to learn whats going on in the real world and the threat that ISLAM is to the world

here is some sites for you

www.prophetofdoom.net

www.religionofpeace.com
Posted by HellKat 9 years ago
HellKat
As for:
"Oh and by the way they also stone homosexuals to death"

Yes, I know that, and I know what the thread is about, I believe it was you who was first to bring up the seperate topic. While that is appaling it's only happening because they never strayed from their old ways like we did, if we stayed with our ways we would be burning people like Criss Angel, and we too would probably be killing homosexuals. It's not acceptable, but that's got nothing to do with what you were saying about the treatment of women.
Posted by HellKat 9 years ago
HellKat
"Qur'an 24:31 "Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty except what (must) appear; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display them except to their husbands..."
"Qur'an 33:59 "Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better."

That is not about abusing them or control, that is about modesty on the womans part, that sort of dress is not required, but recommended, women have a choice in whether or not they wear the hijab or niqab.

I don't know about the rest, but I know that they say that there are a lot of mistranslations, maybe that's in there, but I know what I was taught, and I was taught that women have equal rights as Muslims.

"Why dont you look at the Hijab, and the complete lack of rights of women in Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and any other muslim country"

Like I said, the hijab is not mandatory, many American and Canadian Muslims do not wear them. The lack of womens rights probably has more to do with the leaders of the country than the religion.

"Lo! Men who surrender unto Allah, and women who surrender, and men who believe and women who believe, and men who obey and women who obey..."

It's a long quote, but it basiacally just goes over what women and men are supposed to do.

In his last sermon Muhammad called for: "...equality of all believers without distinction of race or class; the superiority of individuals being based solely on piety;...better treatment of women;"
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
Qur'an 24:6 "And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth."

Qur'an 24:31 "Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty except what (must) appear; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display them except to their husbands..."

Bukhari:V3B48N826 "The Prophet said, 'Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?' The women said, 'Yes.' He said, 'This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind.'"

Ishaq:584 "Tell the men with you who have wives: never trust a woman."

Qur'an 33:59 "Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better."

Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."

Qur'an 4:43 "Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving."

[The Qur'an claims women are unclean and polluted - worse than dirt.]

Want some more?

Why dont you look at the Hijab, and the complete lack of rights of women in Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and any other muslim country

Oh and by the way they also stone homosexuals to death

thats what this thread was about
Posted by HellKat 9 years ago
HellKat
I'm sorry, who's the moron. You say it comes from the Qu'ran? Give me an example of a verse that says anything about treating women poorly.
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