The Instigator
NDman48
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
InnovativeEphemera
Con (against)
Winning
21 Points

Man-Made Global Warming is a Hoax

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
InnovativeEphemera
Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 9/23/2014 Category: News
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,457 times Debate No: 62178
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (11)
Votes (3)

 

NDman48

Pro

I will be arguing that "global warming" is a hoax.

Round One: Respond ONLY with "I accept" or you will be thrown out of the debate.
Round Two: Opening Statements only, NO REBUTTALS or you will be thrown out of the debate.
Round Three: Arguments AND rebuttals
Round Four: " "
Round Five: Final rebuttals and closing statements
InnovativeEphemera

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
NDman48

Pro

I personally am for the fact that man-made global warming does not exist, and that the earth is simply going through an ice age. Let me explain, an ice age goes through two phases. The first one is the obvious "freezing" phase and the second phase is a predominantly warm one(see link 1). We are obviously in the predominantly warm phase, but going back into the cold phase. At both poles there is rapidly growing ice. I as a conservative taking the harder side to argue must work very hard to convince the public, while my partner must simply keep them on his side. Always question the obvious, don't follow the crowd just because it's easy.

1 http://www.amnh.org...

2 http://www.thenewamerican.com...
InnovativeEphemera

Con

I thank my opponent for their opening round. While I'll make some general comments as to the trend of the debate, I will refrain from posting actual rebuttals until the subsequent round, as per the Instigator's rules.

I am actually astounded at the position presented. I was expecting graphs, tables and data. Instead, we have been presented a point of view, which is axiomatic of the anti-climate change position. We have been presented an opinion.

To open my case, let me make something robustly clear. Science does not function on the basis of opinion, and to present opinion is to concede evidence. Science is apolitical.

As it stands, I agree with Pro on one point: don't follow the crowd. Instead, follow the peer-reviewed scientific literature. I take substantial grievance with the sources provided by Pro but unfortunately am constrained by the rules not to explain their absurdity until the following round. Rest assured that they will be thoroughly scrutinised and I intend to tear them apart.

Onto the evidence.

___________________________

It's not two-sided

The popular Western narrative is to provide "unbiased coverage" of stories. In most cases, this is important. However, on science topics, opinion has nothing to do with anything. Facts are facts. Something is either true, or not true, and the only thing that we can use to determine whether something is true is evidence. To have two people on a talk-show, one a climate scientist and one an ostensible nobody claiming that climate scientists are the devil's children and work for multinationals is patently absurd because it misrepresents the scientific consensus (discussed below). It is not a 50/50 split. Evidence favours anthropogenic climate change, and stuffing our fingers in our ears will not refute this. If you want to disprove climate change, you must use evidence.

Consensus

Of course, it would be an argument from popularity to stipulate that purely because the majority thinks something, it is true. It amounts to a special form of anecdotal evidence. However, it's a good place to start looking at why the independent scientific community agrees. As it happens, 97% of peer-reviewed papers published on the topic have found that humans are causing substantial changes to climate (1). The scientific community is clear. There is no "teaching the controversy" because there is no controversy (2). Stop making science political because agendas don't change facts.

Yeah, but, like, the climate has changed before and stuff...or whatever

True. But not like this (3). It appears that there have been around 5 ice ages in earth's past (4). There have also been other variations in climate not related to ice ages. However, let's talk about anthropogenic climate change. The hypothesis is that as CO2 increases, we should see a general increase in global temperatures. Is this the case?

Well, it would appear so. But have statistical controls accounted for extraneous variables and clarified that this is anthropogenic?

Well, yeah, they kinda have. Despite attempts at finding plausible natural explanations for the climate variation, no natural fluctuations account for the observed trends (5).

Rounding off

The scientific illiteracy of climate conspiracy theorists is a fundamental contributor to their perpetuation of the disinformation agenda of the corporate elite. While I obviously have substantially more evidence and could potentially just post hundreds of links to peer-reviewed journals, I prefer the argumentation. Perhaps this is sufficient for my introduction, and we'll clash next round with increased vigour when I can rebut your arguments.

Best of luck in your following round.

__________________________

(1) [http://www.theguardian.com...]
(2) [http://leisureguy.wordpress.com...]
(3) [https://www.science.org.au...]
(4) [http://en.wikipedia.org...]
(5) [http://www.nature.com...]
Debate Round No. 2
NDman48

Pro

NDman48 forfeited this round.
InnovativeEphemera

Con

I'm away at the moment, and my opponent may be busy. For this round, I'll extend my previous arguments. Back to you.
Debate Round No. 3
NDman48

Pro

I feel disrespected and am backing out of this debate.
InnovativeEphemera

Con

My opponent concedes that man-made global warming is, in fact, real.

While at this point I would usually proceed by simply extending my previous arguments until the end of the debate, I feel that particularly poor sportsmanship has been demonstrated by my opponent. Far from constructing baseless ad hominem conjectures against my opponent, I simply deconstructed common mistakes regarding anthropogenic climate change that are made by climategate proponents. My opponent does not genuinely feel disrespected; they recognise that their position is untenable and that the belief that has been instilled in them by their right-wing, science-hating parents does not reflect anything close to observation.

You're not offended; you just know you're wrong.

My objective is now not to convince you, which I have already done, but to convince our audience.

________________________

Rebuttals from first round

My opponent stated that, "[...]an ice age goes through two phases. The first one is the obvious "freezing" phase and the second phase is a predominantly warm one(see link 1)."

While this isn't quite what the source indicates, it's basically right. There are periods of glaciation, and periods of warming. Cooling and warming are not uniform. I'd just like to quickly examine the way you've phrased this, though. Basically you're saying, it gets cold, then it gets warm. Well, obviously. If it stayed cold, we'd still be in an ice age. If it stayed warm, there'd never be ice ages. That's not helpful information.

You then say, "[we are] going back into the cold phase."

Erm, nope.


I mean, we are getting cooler...if by cooler, you mean the temperature is rising.


You then said, "At both poles there is rapidly growing ice."

Your article goes on a right-wing binge-fest with absolutely no understanding of why that is happening. It makes specific reference to Antarctica. Yes. Sea ice is growing. This is because of strengthening westerly winds blowing sheets of snow and cold air further from the coast of the Antarctic continent(1). The strengthening winds are one indication of climate change(1). Further, while the sea ice spreads in geographic area, global ocean and atmospheric temperatures continue to increase. Looking at the data for a single year (i.e. we hit a record this year) is not indicative of trend. This mistake is confusing weather for climate, and is a common error. You're also looking at a single factor in isolation, and ignoring the rest of the data.

Here's an informative video by Veritasium who describes the process and debunks some myths with the aid of some fun animations: https://www.youtube.com...

The preponderance of the evidence

The preponderance of the evidence, the consensus of the scientific literature, the data: "The Earth’s climate is changing rapidly as a result of anthropogenic carbon emissions, and damaging impacts are expected to increase with warming" (Knutti & Hegerl, 2008)(2).

Once again, if you wish to demonstrate that the models are incorrect, then you must supply the evidence that climate change is not occurring.

Your reasons for doubting the science are political. Wanting something to be true or false has no bearing on whether it is true or false.

Environmental refugees

We are going to see floods of environmental refugees as a result of rising sea levels. How can one simply ignore this information?

- The pacific island nation of Kiribati has just finalised the purchase of land in Fiji to initially grow crops on after their domestic agriculture was destroyed by encroaching seawater, then as a place to relocate once their entire country sinks(3). New Zealand will have to grant the population what functionally amounts to environmental asylum.

- Tuvalu is going to sink and the population will need evacuating (4, 5)

- This is just the start of implications for changes to the climate.

Summing up

My opponent had the burden of proof in demonstrating that global warming is a hoax. This has not yet been done, and if last round is anything to go by, I suspect my opponent will concede defeat. However, it would be interesting to hear his take. So, I ask you the following questions:

- What is your evidence for the hoax?
- Who initiated the hoax?
- Why did they initiate it? What's the motive?
- How is it the case that the independent scientific community, meteorologists and government bodies have separately and through peer-review arrived at the same or similar conclusions? If it was false, wouldn't the claims be widely varying?
- Who is the chief orchestrator of this grand conspiracy? They must have a leader since all their claims are the same.
- Is their really more profit to be found by scientists conducting research, than by massive oil cartels, coal and gas miners, and refiners and importers? Is renewable energy really going to earn more money for solar-cell syndicates than fossil fuels will for the energy industry?

Perhaps the conspiracy is, in fact, on the other side.

Until next round, if you decide to defend your position.

_______________________________________________________________________________
1. [http://www.abc.net.au...]
2. [http://www.iac.ethz.ch...]
3. [http://www.gizmodo.com.au...]
4. [http://www.motherjones.com...]
5. [http://www.nytimes.com...]
Debate Round No. 4
NDman48

Pro

NDman48 forfeited this round.
InnovativeEphemera

Con

Ah well. Arguments extended.

The case is found to be resolved in the negative.
Debate Round No. 5
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by InnovativeEphemera 2 years ago
InnovativeEphemera
This is quite interesting for anyone that likes thinking about this issue: http://io9.com...
Posted by InnovativeEphemera 2 years ago
InnovativeEphemera
An interesting hypothesis. I couldn't see that condition of use listed here. Would you be able to direct me?
www.debate.org/help/faq/
Posted by NDman48 2 years ago
NDman48
Its not breaching terms of use if one account is no longer used.
Posted by InnovativeEphemera 2 years ago
InnovativeEphemera
Having multiple accounts breaches DDO terms of use.
Posted by NDman48 2 years ago
NDman48
It isn't my first debate, one I'm on the debate team and I have another account that I don't use.
Posted by MyDinosaurHands 2 years ago
MyDinosaurHands
@InnovativeEphemera
Posted by AlternativeDavid 2 years ago
AlternativeDavid
Quite a big topic for somebody's first debate. This should be a slaughter.
Posted by InnovativeEphemera 2 years ago
InnovativeEphemera
Don't worry bro, I'll evaporate his pseudoscientific straw men on your behalf.
Posted by MyDinosaurHands 2 years ago
MyDinosaurHands
I can read the title jackass, but your resolution contradicts your title. For all we know, you could be an idiot who doesn't realize the difference between the two.
Posted by NDman48 2 years ago
NDman48
What is the title?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by republicofdhar 2 years ago
republicofdhar
NDman48InnovativeEphemera
Who won the debate:-Vote Checkmark
Reasons for voting decision: Very poor conduct from Pro.
Vote Placed by Coinsruledude 2 years ago
Coinsruledude
NDman48InnovativeEphemera
Who won the debate:-Vote Checkmark
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
NDman48InnovativeEphemera
Who won the debate:-Vote Checkmark
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture