The Instigator
JJ.Birkey
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
Rational_Thinker9119
Con (against)
Winning
14 Points

Man rapes 14 month old daughter. He should be put to death

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
Rational_Thinker9119
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/20/2013 Category: News
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,055 times Debate No: 34928
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (17)
Votes (5)

 

JJ.Birkey

Pro

In Missouri, a man rapes his 14 month old daughter, while the girlfriend watches. He killed the little girl by strangulation, the force of the impact would have killed her. The man is charged with first degree murder, the woman charged with second degree, sentence is undermined. Death Penalty should be used for this because the man took away the innocence of the this little girl, let alone for the murder. Yes, it is immoral, but so is the actions of this man and woman, they together, murdered their baby girl. Yes, they can plead insanity. But if that is the case, they should still be put to death because they were both well aware of the actions and in this case, the punishment should fit the crime.
Rational_Thinker9119

Con

Death is the easy way out. If punishment is the goal, then this man should suffer. One cannot suffer if they are dead; they cannot even think. If one is alive, then can suffer, which is a real punishment. The person can think about their actions, which is real punishment. We all die, so killing him is not really a punishment. Once death happens, the man has no chance to suffer as he is gone. I think that death, while sounding more harsh than a life sentance, is actually the easy way out for the criminal. It it easier for him to just die instead of spending the rest of his life with guilt. I think spending the rest of his life with guilt is a harsher punishment, than simply ending his life. Also, other inmates tend to not favor pedophiles. Killing this man will be an "escape", as death is certainly better than getting beaten up and raped by other inmates due to being a target.

Basically, life in prison as a pedophile is a real punishment. Death is a way our for the criminal, you would actually be doing him a favor!
Debate Round No. 1
JJ.Birkey

Pro

Yes, death sounds harsher then life sentence, but tax payers money is used for the prisons. To suppl the meals, and they recreational sports. Not only with this, most are let out early on "good behavior". This gives the people the chance to do it again and again, till put to death. The Kathlynn Shepard murderer, he was already in prison before for the abduction of two girls. Let out early, on "good behavior" and kidnaps two more girls, killing one innocent girl.
Rational_Thinker9119

Con

"Yes, death sounds harsher then life sentence, but tax payers money is used for the prisons." - Pro

I said life imprisonment would be harsher, as they can suffer if they are alive. You cannot suffer if you are dead so death is the easy way out. The rapist deserves a punishment (I suppose you are arguing), so the best one would be life in prison. Also, executions actually cost tax payers more than life imprisonment due to the long and complex judicial process for capital cases. Take California for example:

"California could save $1 billion over five years by replacing the death penalty with permanent imprisonment."[http://www.deathpenalty.org...]

"California taxpayers pay $90,000 more per death row prisoner each year than on prisoners in regular confinement." [http://www.deathpenalty.org...]


"suppl the meals, and they recreational sports. Not only with this, most are let out early on "good behavior". This gives the people the chance to do it again and again, till put to death." - Pro

This just means they we have to stop letting them out, not that we have to kill them.

Conclusion
------------

Executions are more expensive than life imprisonment, and give the rapist/ killer an easy way out instead of suffering.

The resolution has been negated.


Debate Round No. 2
JJ.Birkey

Pro

Say, you had a daughter, and the mother let another man do this to your little girl, or even if it was your niece. Would you rather have him put to death, or life in prison with the chance that he can get out and do this to another? The life in prison does nothing when people let these mentally ill men and women back on the streets. It's a slap on the wrist. I'm not in California, my state taxes go to many things, and part of those many things are the prisons holding the rapist and murderers that should be put to death. The punishment should fit the crime, the man killed his daughter, he should be put to death. The woman watched him do it, she should have it done to her, and put to death as well. People in poverty did nothing wrong, and have it worse then a murderer in prison. Our jail system has drug dealers and small time criminals doing hard time without the chance of parole, and these blooded criminals get out on good behavior. A man in prison was known as "crowbar" he raped little girls, younger than 1 years old, with a crowbar. This man faced life in prison, but is out on parole.
Rational_Thinker9119

Con

"Say, you had a daughter, and the mother let another man do this to your little girl, or even if it was your niece. Would you rather have him put to death, or life in prison with the chance that he can get out and do this to another?" - Pro

The above is a false-dichotomy. My opponent is giving two options:

(i) Death.
(ii) Life in prison with a chance to get out

However, this ignores the last round where I claimed that we can be tougher with regards to early release and not have to execute anybody. Thus, there is a third option:

(iii) Life in prison without a chance to get out

"I'm not in California, my state taxes go to many things, and part of those many things are the prisons holding the rapist and murderers that should be put to death." - Pro

California was only one example. Execution is generally more expensive than life imprisonment for tax payers across the board. Take Kansas for instance. A legislative audit in 2003 found that the cost of an execution is 70% more than the alternative. In Tennessee it is 48% more, and in Maryland it is three time more [http://www.amnestyusa.org...].

"The punishment should fit the crime, the man killed his daughter, he should be put to death."

Does this not make us just as bad as him however? If we are killing him for taking a life, then how is that not hypocritical?

"People in poverty did nothing wrong, and have it worse then a murderer in prison."

My opponent forgets that it is not worse for a pedophile. People who rape children get it the worst in prison.

"As part of my psych course I interviewed several prison inmates, all of them hated pedophiles. The term 'rockspider' comes to mind. One inmate I talked to proudly boasted that he had shattered the rib cage of a pedophile and all the others admitted they would not hesitate to "go" a pedophile if they got the chance." - [http://answers.yahoo.com...]

I am not sure how reliable the above source is, however it is common knowledge that pedophiles get it bad in jail so I believe it.

Killing the pedophile would stop him from being tormented and jail. Killing him would be doing him a favor in the long run!

Conclusion
------------

My opponent did not meet her burden of proof. I met mine. She also had no sources, so I urge a source vote.

I thank my opponent for an interesting discussion.
Debate Round No. 3
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by agree_disagree 1 year ago
agree_disagree
im sorry "con" but any sane person would agree with "Pro".
Posted by agree_disagree 1 year ago
agree_disagree
"pro is the real victor :)
Posted by agree_disagree 1 year ago
agree_disagree
"Pro" has a better point of view and i strongly agree considering my beloved family member was raped and is mentally scared for life I'm only a child yet i see a clear and better option for this argument "con" is wrong. Your argument is invalid "con".
Posted by makhdoom5 3 years ago
makhdoom5
girl was right.
he must be put to death i wish i would be doing this debate.
Posted by makhdoom5 3 years ago
makhdoom5
oh man what kind of peoples u are. all votes to con. man its so bad.
death for death is real punishment.
there is no guilt for those who do that.
that is insane answer.
do that person feel guilty who did it at first place.
man normal death may be life imprisonment but this case.
those who says no death i think are insane.
Posted by Slayerofthepost 3 years ago
Slayerofthepost
I have to agree that death is the easy way out and that the man and girlfriend should be tortured.
Posted by Aniline 3 years ago
Aniline
The death penalty is just a form of vengeance. Vengeance is not justice. Wanting to hurt the perpetrator of a crime like this is understandable, but it's not justice.
Posted by wrichcirw 3 years ago
wrichcirw
Let me emphasize:

"...redemption AND acknowledgement of the crime..."
Posted by Rational_Thinker9119 3 years ago
Rational_Thinker9119
"Had CON mentioned anything about redemption and acknowledgement of the crime, then I would have found CON's position to be palatable."

I did talk about acknowledgement of the crime:

"It it easier for him to just die instead of spending the rest of his life with guilt. I think spending the rest of his life with guilt is a harsher punishment, than simply ending his life." - me

You have to acknowledge what you did to feel guilt.
Posted by wrichcirw 3 years ago
wrichcirw
I wasn't sure what I found more disturbing in this debate, the resolution or CON's position. Had CON mentioned anything about redemption and acknowledgement of the crime, then I would have found CON's position to be palatable. However, the only sentiment I got from CON was a sadistic predilection to make the accused suffer, and that death apparently was simply not enough, that it was too "easy". Apparently CON equated imposing guilt to this sadism, along with the horrific treatment that pedophiles apparently receive while in prison.

I agree that the resolution brought about a false dichotomy, but I found CON's position to be wholly unpalatable, and on a certain level more reprehensible than the actual crime. Yes, it is ungodly and unthinkable to rape anyone let alone an infant, but to punish such people without expectation of them to learn from their mistakes puts the one dealing the punish in a position resembling nothing more than a steward of hell. I would think we as a society are better than that. Personally I would favor rehabilitation without chance of parole.

Conduct PRO.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by wrichcirw 3 years ago
wrichcirw
JJ.BirkeyRational_Thinker9119Tied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: see comments.
Vote Placed by johnlubba 3 years ago
johnlubba
JJ.BirkeyRational_Thinker9119Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: No vote
Vote Placed by Stephen_Hawkins 3 years ago
Stephen_Hawkins
JJ.BirkeyRational_Thinker9119Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: I feel that Pro's arguments were too heavily based on emotion for the majority of the debate. While it's very important, and the place to start in constructing these cases, it didn't develop past that to the statistics stage it needed. Con had the opposite issue he should deal with in future: anecdotes make us connect with an issue and become emotionally involved, which is why alarming events like this one make people want the death penalty. However, the Millite case that was presented, in addition to the well rebutted point about the Third Alternative was not strongly addressed for me by Pro, and as that rebuffed all of pro's arguments, I feel inclined to vote CON. Good debate by both sides.
Vote Placed by Guy_D 3 years ago
Guy_D
JJ.BirkeyRational_Thinker9119Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: A shank in the back does not feel good. Jokes aside, we've become a nation of blood lust and revenge. Kinda sad IMO. And I've seen no hard data that indicates the DP works as a deterrent for this particular crime.
Vote Placed by SimplyE 3 years ago
SimplyE
JJ.BirkeyRational_Thinker9119Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro mostly used pathos appeal, Con used sources. Pro kept arguing that the prisoner could get out on good behavior,not addressing Con's "life with out parole punishment". Pro made the more compelling argument that life in prison was harsher than the death penalty.