The Instigator
Skipper15
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
jaketaz
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Marching band is a sport

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/22/2012 Category: Sports
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,090 times Debate No: 24828
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

Skipper15

Pro

In marching band, the marcher must remember movements and know exactly when to move. He/She must also be able to adjust to the marchers around themselves, meaning being able to form lines and curves during a show. The marcher must also remember stepping pattern, and a number of other motions all while playing the correct music.
jaketaz

Con

"In marching band, the marcher must remember movements and know exactly when to move."
- However, every time the band is doing a certain routine, that routine does not change. Every play made in a competitive sport must change according to what is happening during the game. When marching band players are operating from a pre-determined series of actions, those actions are supposed to be replicated exactly every time they do that song. In sports, if players operate from a pre-determined series of actions, those actions must change according to the current dynamics of the playing field.

"He/She must also be able to adjust to the marchers around themselves, meaning being able to form lines and curves during a show."
- In competitive sports, players must be able to adjust themselves around people whose movement patterns aren't revealed in advance. They must adjust to both the members of their own team and the members of the other team, without knowledge of what the other team will do. Even if one team has planned out a movement pattern, the spontaneous actions of the other team will affect the spatial dynamics of the playing field, forcing them to adjust their pre-determined pattern.

"The marcher must also remember stepping pattern, and a number of other motions all while playing the correct music."
- In many competitive sports, it is not necessary to remember stepping patterns, to play music, or to do anything while playing music.
Debate Round No. 1
Skipper15

Pro

My opponent brought up some good points but all of which were not fully thought out. He stated that while the marchers know a predetermined movement he went on to state that they do have to adjust to the marchers around them. Just like a football play, the receiver must adjust to the circumstances brought when the play doesn't go through correctly. If a marcher sees that there is a larger gap than what there should be then he/she must adjust to it so that it won't appear to the audience. Another example would be this; If the band is brought to a left slide and the person in front of one of the marchers is not moving at the correct tempo, then everyone behind him/her will have to adjust. "Every play made in a competitive sport must change according to what is happening during the game". A football teams play relates to a marching bands drill chart. When the play doesn't go through, the player must adjust. "In many competitive sports, it is not necessary to remember stepping patterns, to play music, or to do anything while playing music". This is correct. While my opponent is at it, in many competitive sports it is not necessary to throw a basketball threw a hoop, but is in basketball. In many competitive sports it is not necessary to run a football into the end field, but it is in football. In marching band, to win you must use correct stepping patterns, remember your music, adjust to those around you, and all while playing the correct notes. You might as well call it competitive since there are marching competitions, most well know as "DCI" or "Drum Corps International".
jaketaz

Con

My opponent also brings up some good points, none of which account for the interference of an opposing team. My opponent shows that there are some similarities to football and basketball. But in those sports, as with all team sports, there is another team on the field doing their routine at the same time, which is a huge difference.

The issue of "an opposing team" is the biggest one I see so far with my opponent's position. He is correlating "the receiver must adjust to the circumstances brought when the play doesn't go through correctly" with "If a marcher sees that there is a larger gap than what there should be then he/she must adjust to it". The marching band's problem here is a result of the band's own mistake, and not the result of outside circumstances. The band plays together, and if a routine has gone well, it is expected that the routine should go well every time. In a competitive sport, a team can go through a play perfectly every time both in practice AND in the game, and there will still be problems because of an opposing team. In marching band, the problems are caused by the band itself. In competitive sports, a perfect team will still be unable to do a given routine exactly as practiced, because of interference from outside forces.

Another huge difference between marching band and every competitive sport, is that there is no "game object" passed between members of a team, from a team member to a place in the field, or between a team and their opposition. In every competitive sport, this "game object" makes a transfer between players or between a player and the field. In marching band, the only "game objects" remain in the players' hands for the entirety of the demonstration. This "game object" theory is applicable to every competitive sport and not to marching band. In sports such as football, soccer, tennis, and basketball, a singular game object is passed between players on the same side and opposing sides. In sports such as golf, ultimate frisbee, croquet and even bowling, game objects are passed from players to a point in the field - this doesn't exist in marching band.

Marching band doesn't advertise in mass media, another way in which it differs greatly from competitive sports.

Possibly the largest difference apart from the "opposing team" theory, is that there is no professional career ladder for marching band, and no professional marching band period. "Professional" meaning you get paid for doing it. The only comparable thing is the Marine Drum and Bugle Corps, but these members are not paid to be in marching band, they are paid to be marines and also elect to participate in the Corps activities.

In summation: there is no professional marching band, no opposing team influencing the outcome, and no interaction of game objects between players or between players and the competition field.
Debate Round No. 2
Skipper15

Pro

Actually, marching band does have opponents. As I said before, Drum Corps International. This is a competition where professionals march against eachother while judges pay attention to feild control, posture, horn carriage, and many other details. At the end of the competition, each band is judged and one comes on top.

Now, my opponent stated that while a bands wrong movement is a problem caused by the band itself a football team can execute a play perfectly but still face problems from an opposing team. This is a good point but understand that each marcher is like a football team. They may march perfectly but when the one marcher in front of them is wrong, then it would be as if he/she were trying to get a "touchdown" by not letting someone elses mistakes affect the game. Like bowling, when the bowler is up to go, he is against himself. His roll is completely on him, his opponent is not blocking the pins.

As for the "game object". In band this would be considered a "que". Otherwise known as "when to play". As the marcher is marching, he/she must listen to all other instruments and count measures of rest. As the drum major conducts he is "passing the ball". Obviously I mean he is queuing the music. Once the drum major gestures then it is time for a certain instrument to come into play. Besides, there is no "game object" in racing track. Just running, yet it is considered a sport.

Finally, professionality. Professional doesn't mean being paid to do something but it means skill level. So if my opponent wishes to know that there is no pay for marching then he is correct. To my knowledge, no one is paid for marching in band. I will state that people are paid to play in concert band and scholarships are awarded for playing at a "professional" level. Just as football and other sports.
jaketaz

Con

As I stated in the opening of round 2 , I am talking about an opposing team that is "on the field doing their routine at the same time." I understand that marching band teams are judged by their performance, but again, my opponent has yet to prove that another group of players has any influence on a marching band's ability to do its job. In competitive sports, a team will be doing their "routine" while an opposing team is actively interfering with them on the field at the same time. Regardless of whether or not marching band is competitive, I argue that it is not a sport for the very simple reason that every problem a marching band encounters during its routine is the fault of the band or of individual members of the band. This is obviously completely different from competitive sports, because there is no extraneous force influencing their routine.

My opponent counters this with the assertion that "each marcher is like a football team", but does not defuse my argument. The statement "They may march perfectly but when the one marcher in front of them is wrong" makes no sense at all: if one marcher is wrong then the team as a whole is not marching perfectly. This argument does not disprove my theory of the opposing team. As simply as I can state this - it does not matter if one or all of the marchers make mistakes, or if every single person marches absolutely perfectly, there is no opposing team on the field that can influence their routine. A football team could execute a play formation with absolute perfection according to their practice and the theory behind the maneuver, and will still see the possibility of total failure due to the maneuvers of an opposing team. It doesn't matter how good Team A is, Team B can still cause them to fail, using tactics and techniques that Team A is completely ignorant of since Team A and Team B do not train together. There is absolutely nothing like this present in marching band, and as such, marching band is not a competitive sport.

My opponent is arguing that a "cue" (actual spelling) serves the same function as a "game object". That is not true, because in competitive sports there is always a cue AND a game object. The referee always cues the actions happening on the field, and the game object is passed between players and/or between a player and the terrain. The cues are to tell the marchers where they are in series of predetermined actions, and the cues will be the same every time the band does a given routine. When a referee or coach cues players in a competitive sport, they are telling the players what to do with the game object. This instruction will change according to the current dynamics of the field, and will be an instruction pertaining to the game object. The cue itself cannot be a game object for marching band, because the cues never change during the course of a given routine and are not adjusted for current field dynamics.

"Professional doesn't mean being paid to do something but it means skill level" - this is not correct. Here is the current dictionary definition of "professional" [1]:
- adjective -
1. following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.
2. of, pertaining to, or connected with a profession: professional studies.
3. appropriate to a profession: professional objectivity.
4. engaged in one of the learned professions: A lawyer is a professional person.
5. following as a business an occupation ordinarily engaged in as a pastime: a professional golfer.

As you can see, all of these are directly connected with receiving income for your skills, even the ones addressing a "profession" - since a profession is one's field of work from which they earn income. My opponent acknowledged that "there is no pay for marching" and therefore concedes this point, and this is a fundamental difference between marching band and every single competitive sport. I am not discussing concert band or scholarships, I am discussing taxable income earned from marching band only.

[1] http://dictionary.reference.com...
Debate Round No. 3
Skipper15

Pro

Skipper15 forfeited this round.
jaketaz

Con

I am currently waiting for a rebuttal for my main arguments against marching band being considered a sport. These are:

The lack of an opposing force altering the performance of the marching band
The lack of a professional (read: income-generating) career ladder for marching band
The lack of a "game object" in marching band

I await my opponent's closing argument. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 4
Skipper15

Pro

Skipper15 forfeited this round.
jaketaz

Con

jaketaz forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by bloocoat 1 year ago
bloocoat
The con debater needs to realize that the routine is never the same twice. You never go to the exact spot on your coordinate sheet, you just fit the form.
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