The Instigator
smokeythebea
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
16kadams
Con (against)
Winning
55 Points

Marijuana legalization,taxation and sale for adults 18 +

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 10 votes the winner is...
16kadams
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/16/2012 Category: Society
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,974 times Debate No: 23646
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (11)
Votes (10)

 

smokeythebea

Pro

I believe Cannabis(delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol) should be legalized as should Medical Cannabis. It should be taxed by the U.S Government using a sales tax in the same way the U.S government does for Tobacco and Alcohol. Persons 18 years or older would legally be able to purchase from " Dispensaries" not "Drug dealers".

Cannabis should be legalized for a number of reasons.
1. The drug war is not as effective as most people think it is.
2. Police and the Government have better things to do.
3. Cannabis is a plant grown from a seed not a chemically altered substance like harder drugs.
and i have a reason why my "points (or at least the synopsis's of them) prove literally nothing"
I await my Opponents Argument :)
16kadams

Con

**readers my opponent and I agreed medical marijuana was irrelevant, so his first argument is irrelevant

My opponents argument lies on a 3 part thesis arguing:
a) drug war not working
b) have better things to do
c) natural grown

I will refute each of these in order.

My opponents first assumption is based on misinformation. The rationale behind this argument, when ignoring the facts, does seem very convincing. The war on drugs isn't working, has not and cannot be won, and drugs are still widely available. This is one of the backbones to the legalization case, as well as my opponents argument. But the argument here is guess what? false. Many also claim making drugs illegal just creates more angst and has no effect on users. But when looking at the facts, you see my opponents case mainly lies on rhetoric. Casual usage of drugs is on the decline. Overall dug usage is down one third in the US, thats 9.5 million people not doing drugs. Aka there was a decrease in drug usage by 10 million. Using school data, 2/3 kids are drug free. Now the significance of this is a moot unless we can conjure up other data (before and after). What makes this more significant as this is the first time in 7 years we can report mainly drug free schools. Also there are some very low levels (many record lows) in drug usage among teens. Further, in the 1980s and 90s there was a crack epidemic, once he DEA increased punishments and began to do more work the amount of chronic users has decreased. Further overall since the drug war there has been a decrease trend in marijuana users. Further, from 1976-99 there was a 33% drop in heroine users! [1] (note other drugs are just to prove there is a deterrence effect)

Now lets look at supply reduction. In Texas after 9/11 they had many drug busts. Now one can argue this as it does not matter, but look at the facts again. Major drug bust that only happen if we catch them do many things:
1) Lower drug supply
2) Raise costs on the transportation's, and lost expensive merchandise

These two things are undeniably effective. One from a market standpoint, the other from a usage standpoint. Further one DEA program, operation purple, is having major effects on the cocaine industry (other projects happen on marijuana) and make the supply harder to obtain etc.

Now, readers I will explain why I listed so much info on other drugs: this shows that all drugs are effected by bans, a deterrent effect therefore lower users. It also shows drug bust that only happen when drugs are banned lower the amount on supply and raise costs on dealers. The point is more laws = less users. Here is a nifty graph:




My opponents second claim is based on the government has better things to do. This is quite vauge, it is likely arguing the government should spend money on treatment. Unless my opponent argues the money in the DEA should be used towards treatment, then I argye he needs to mention it before I mis-argue.

And his last argunment is essentially saying marijuana is not that bad, or argues it is natural. One could argue many things, but being pure does not mean its inherintly good, and whether or not marijuana is better then other drugs is irrelevant. Before refuting this, lets look at what marijuana does:
  • Harder to fight sickness
  • containes 400-2000 chemicals
  • hearts brain, lungs, heart, and mouth
  • contains more cancer causing agents then cigarettes. [2]
Whether or not it is natural is irrelevant, I have lready proven it is unhealthy. Its like saying lava is natural... bad analogy. Anyway, you get the point something being natural or more natural is irrelevant. Further, the argunment he is making how are a couple of leaves bad? You know oak leaves dont hurt people, lets burn up some of those! False. THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol) is a mind altering substance in marijuana. THC is a terrible chemical, and guess what? Marijuana containes almost 10% THC. [3] Now again to my refutation to my opponents (1) or (a). "In fact, marijuana use declined from the late 1990s through 2007, with a decrease in past-year use of more than 20 percent in all three grades combined from 2000 to 2007."[3]

My opponents argunments are debunked.

C1 - Legalization, increased users

It always baffels me when people say lealization will have no effect on users. Well any law will have an effect on users, increase decrease. No matter what there is likely to be a trend, and legalization will lead to increased users. I am low on time, so need to quote this: "It’s clear from history that periods of lax controls are accompanied by more drug abuse and that periods of tight controls are accompanied by less drug abuse. ... The consequences of legalization became evident when the Alaska Supreme Court ruled in 1975 that the state could not interfere with an adult’s possession of marijuana for personal consumption in the home. The court’s ruling became a green light for marijuana use. Although the ruling was limited to persons 19 and over, teens were among those increasingly using marijuana. According to a 1988 University of Alaska study, the state’s 12 to 17-year-olds used marijuana at more than twice the national average for their age group. Alaska’s residents voted in 1990 to recriminalize possession of marijuana, demonstrating their belief that increased use was too high a price to pay."[4]

Long story short: legal marijuana = more users

C2 - Can't legalize drugs by international law

Decriminalize? yes. Legalize? no. Decriminalization is possible, legalization like the title argues is impossible. 1961, Convention of Narcotics. The treaty was to prohibit procuction and supply of drugs. [5] So drugs cannot be legalized under law! legalization is illegal, ironic huh?

C3 - Drugs and crime

Using drugs causes crime.

source 6.

As proven, drug legalization means more usage. As proven here with this graph, drug users generally comit crimes many under the influence. [6] so leglalization increases crime[s].

Low on time, I can expand this later. Vote con.


[1] http://www.justice.gov...
[2] http://my.clevelandclinic.org...
[3] http://teens.drugabuse.gov...
[4] http://www.justice.gov...
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[6] http://www.justice.gov...
Debate Round No. 1
smokeythebea

Pro

Thank you for your arguments.
And like most my opponent has used many government sources which most likely contain bias.
I even admit there is no unbiased source i could find bout the war on drugs. If you read the title of this debate is says "Marijuana legalization,taxation and sale for adults 18 +" no where in this title or my argument did i say its OK for teens to use drugs. It is not OK so most of your statistics are irrelevant to this topic. The way i see it the Government doesn't need to step in and help us raise our children and teach them to not use drugs simple as that. Cigarettes and alcohol are perfectly legal yet kids still abuse it.Cigarettes are severely harmful to your body and so is alcohol so i don't understand how a seed that is planted grown dried and ingested is illegal.

These are chemicals in tobacco(smoke is irrelevant)
* Acetanisole
* Acetic Acid
* Acetoin
* Acetophenone
* 6-Acetoxydihydrotheaspirane
* 2-Acetyl-3- Ethylpyrazine
* 2-Acetyl-5-Methylfuran
* Acetylpyrazine
* 2-Acetylpyridine
* 3-Acetylpyridine
* 2-Acetylthiazole
* Aconitic Acid
* dl-Alanine
* Alfalfa Extract
* Allspice Extract,Oleoresin, and Oil
* Allyl Hexanoate
* Allyl Ionone
* Almond Bitter Oil
* Ambergris Tincture
* Ammonia
* Ammonium Bicarbonate
* Ammonium Hydroxide
* Ammonium Phosphate Dibasic
* Ammonium Sulfide
* Amyl Alcohol
* Amyl Butyrate
* Amyl Formate
* Amyl Octanoate
* alpha-Amylcinnamaldehyde
* Amyris Oil
* trans-Anethole
* Angelica Root Extract, Oil and Seed Oil
* Anise
* Anise Star, Extract and Oils
* Anisyl Acetate
* Anisyl Alcohol
* Anisyl Formate
* Anisyl Phenylacetate
* Apple Juice Concentrate, Extract, and Skins
* Apricot Extract and Juice Concentrate
* 1-Arginine
* Asafetida Fluid Extract And Oil
* Ascorbic Acid
* 1-Asparagine Monohydrate
* 1-Aspartic Acid
* Balsam Peru and Oil
* Basil Oil
* Bay Leaf, Oil and Sweet Oil
* Beeswax White
* Beet Juice Concentrate
* Benzaldehyde
* Benzaldehyde Glyceryl Acetal
* Benzoic Acid, Benzoin
* Benzoin Resin
* Benzophenone
* Benzyl Alcohol
* Benzyl Benzoate
* Benzyl Butyrate
* Benzyl Cinnamate
* Benzyl Propionate
* Benzyl Salicylate
* Bergamot Oil
* Bisabolene
* Black Currant Buds Absolute
* Borneol
* Bornyl Acetate
* Buchu Leaf Oil
* 1,3-Butanediol
* 2,3-Butanedione
* 1-Butanol
* 2-Butanone
* 4(2-Butenylidene)-3,5,5-Trimethyl-2-Cyclohexen-1-One
* Butter, Butter Esters, and Butter Oil
* Butyl Acetate
* Butyl Butyrate
* Butyl Butyryl Lactate
* Butyl Isovalerate
* Butyl Phenylacetate
* Butyl Undecylenate
* 3-Butylidenephthalide
* Butyric Acid]
* Cadinene
* Caffeine
* Calcium Carbonate
* Camphene
* Cananga Oil
* Capsicum Oleoresin
* Caramel Color
* Caraway Oil
* Carbon Dioxide
* Cardamom Oleoresin, Extract, Seed Oil, and Powder
* Carob Bean and Extract
* beta-Carotene
* Carrot Oil
* Carvacrol
* 4-Carvomenthenol
* 1-Carvone
* beta-Caryophyllene
* beta-Caryophyllene Oxide
* Cascarilla Oil and Bark Extract
* Cassia Bark Oil
* Cassie Absolute and Oil
* Castoreum Extract, Tincture and Absolute
* Cedar Leaf Oil
* Cedarwood Oil Terpenes and Virginiana
* Cedrol
* Celery Seed Extract, Solid, Oil, And Oleoresin
* Cellulose Fiber
* Chamomile Flower Oil And Extract
* Chicory Extract
* Chocolate
* Cinnamaldehyde
* Cinnamic Acid
* Cinnamon Leaf Oil, Bark Oil, and Extract
* Cinnamyl Acetate
* Cinnamyl Alcohol
* Cinnamyl Cinnamate
* Cinnamyl Isovalerate
* Cinnamyl Propionate
* Citral
* Citric Acid
* Citronella Oil
* dl-Citronellol
* Citronellyl Butyrate
* itronellyl Isobutyrate
* Civet Absolute
* Clary Oil
* Clover Tops, Red Solid Extract
* Cocoa
* Cocoa Shells, Extract, Distillate And Powder
* Coconut Oil
* Coffee
* Cognac White and Green Oil
* Copaiba Oil
* Coriander Extract and Oil
* Corn Oil
* Corn Silk
* Costus Root Oil
* Cubeb Oil
* Cuminaldehyde
* para-Cymene
* 1-Cysteine
And i am not even done there are over 500 chemicals in tobacco.The chemicals in Cannabis are not added or altered in any way.

"THC has an extremely low toxicity and the amount that can enter the body through the consumption of cannabis plants poses no threat of death. In lab animal tests, scientists have had much difficulty administering a dosage of THC that is high enough to be lethal." Accordingly, there is little reason to believe a human would self-administer such doses. Indeed, a 1988 ruling from the United States Department of Justice concluded that "In practical terms, marijuana cannot induce a lethal response as a result of drug-related toxicity."

According to the Merck Index, the LD50 of THC (the dose which causes the death of 50% of individuals) is 1270 mg/kg for male rats and 730 mg/kg for female rats from oral consumption in sesame oil, and 42 mg/kg for rats from inhalation.[18]

The ratio of cannabis material required to produce a fatal overdose to the amount required to saturate cannabinoid receptors and cause intoxication is approximately 40,000:1. It is extremely difficult to overdose by smoking marijuana; a typical marijuana "joint" contains less than 10 mg of THC, and one would have to smoke thousands of those in a short period of time to approach toxic levels. According to a 2006 United Kingdom government report, using cannabis is much less dangerous than tobacco, prescription drugs, and alcohol in social harms, physical harm, and addiction other studies have found much lower disparities in ammonia and hydrogen cyanide between cannabis and tobacco, and that some other constituents (such as polonium-210, lead, arsenic, nicotine, and tobacco-specific nitrosamines) are either lower or non-existent in cannabis smoke.

The thought of saying legalizing marijuana will not force users to smoke marijuana. If you don't like it now you wont like it when its legal anyways.

I know i probably didn't answer some of your arguments.

I have some questions for you: How is it right to to tell me what i can and can not to my own body ?
secondly how is tobacco and alcohol legal even though many studies have shown them to be very harmful?
thirdly Why is Cannabis being singled out as the most harmful drug out there when 0 deaths have come from it ?

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.saferchoice.org...
http://www.americanscientist.org...
16kadams

Con

My opponent in a PM said he did not understand my arguments, hence his first paragraph up until tobacco is irrelevant.

My opponents main argument is on tobacco is worse then cigarettes. Let me give some marijuana info (some of it is just info, others refute my opponents case).

Marijuana is the most commonly abused [illegal] drug, it contains 400-2000 chemicals and its main chemical is THC. As THC is the main chemical, lets look at what THC does. THC when smokes or used send chemicals mainly to the brain. "Not surprisingly, marijuana intoxication can cause distorted perceptions, impaired coordination, difficulty with thinking and problem solving, and problems with learning and memory. Research has shown that, in chronic users, marijuana's adverse impact on learning and memory can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off.2 As a result, someone who smokes marijuana every day may be functioning at a suboptimal intellectual level all of the time. ... Estimates from research suggest that about 9 percent of users become addicted to marijuana; this number increases among those who start young (to about 17 percent) and among daily users (25-50 percent)."[1]

Tobacco does not have these mind altering effects.

"Marijuana plants contain more than 400 chemicals"[2]

My opponents tobacco comparison fails too. Also: "An estimated 400 chemicals co-exist in marijuana, but marijuana smoke has as many as 2,000 chemicals,"[3]

My opponent then argus THC has no chance of death, this ignores the facts. THC causes people to be high, poor choices, slower movement, like while drunk but worse. Now, marijuana while driving = deaths. THC causes deaths indirectly.

The rest of my opponents argunments are answered in the Q and A:

Q. How is it right to to tell me what i can and can not to my own body?

A. In a legal situation like this, the governments job is to choose what benefits society, also you have failed to prove legalization would benefit society. I have argued in round 1 that legalization would likely increase the amount of users. My argunments last round where actually answering the point, mainly because one of them argued the crime problems. Now how would we know legaliztion would lower crime? Wouldn't it put the cartels out of buisness? Yes it would, but that does not effect the argunment. Legalization lowers drug costs, correct? Well look at this: "If you give somebody free drugs you don't turn him into a responsible employee, husband, or father."[4] Why? The drugs effects on the brain cause people to become iritable, and therefore would commit many crimes (or more likely to commit crimes if on drugs). 80% of child abuse crimes now involve drugs. [4]

Now, lets ask wont it increase users? If it does we can assume they will likely cause crime and drugs not only hurt the user, but also hurt everyone around him. Aone point 11 states decriminalized marijuana, usage trippled among youg people and quadropled in older people. [4]

The point is society would benefit from prohibition of drugs, so the laws are just.

Q. secondly how is tobacco and alcohol legal even though many studies have shown them to be very harmful?

A. Lets begin with alcohol:
"Compared to alcohol, marijuana is not safe. Long-term, moderate consumption of alcohol carries few health risks and even offers some significant benefits. The effects of regular marijuana consumption are quite different. For example, the National Institute on Drug Abuse (a division of the National Institutes of Health) has released studies showing that use of marijuana has wide-ranging negative health effects. Long-term marijuana consumption “impairs the ability of T-cells in the lungs’ immune system to fight off some infections. These studies have also found that marijuana consumption impairs short-term memory, making it difficult to learn and retain information or perform complex tasks; slows reaction time and impairs motor coordination; increases heart rate by 20 percent to 100 percent, thus elevating the risk of heart attack; and alters moods, resulting in artificial euphoria, calmness, or (in high doses) anxiety or paranoia." [5]

As we can see an overdose is not needed to cause death or problems. We can see long term usage of marijuana is worse then alcohol.

My opponent compares marijuana to tobacco, forgets my argunment last round how marijuana has more tar then tobacco and chemicals. Either way, this is irrelevant as marijuanas effect on the brain only relates to alcohol, so a tobacco comparison is like saying red is like white.

Q. thirdly Why is Cannabis being singled out as the most harmful drug out there when 0 deaths have come from it?

A. As stated marijuanas effect causes a hugher chance of heart attack and car crash. So indirectly we can argue marijuana causes death. I have also shown more users in youth (there is a drug problem in youth, why make it worse by legalization?) will increase. This willc ause crime and different additudes/addictions causing deaths that way.

CONCLUSION:

"I know i probably didn't answer some of your arguments" - Yes, you did, all of my case and mich of my rebuttals.

I have disproven my opponents case, he has not refuted mine, vote con.




[1] http://www.drugabuse.gov...
[2] http://science.howstuffworks.com...
[3] http://www.webmd.com...
[4] http://www.sarnia.com...
[5] http://www.heritage.org...
Debate Round No. 2
smokeythebea

Pro

i give up i am tired of ignorant people. I smoke marijuana occasionally and i have no health problems what so ever. I have add/adhd which makes me really unfocused and unmotivational. no matter how much evidence there is on if its good or bad its all biased.

I see no problem with marijuana as a plant grown in the soil. No matter how much people try con wins because marijuana is illegal which makes it seem bad to people. people while enjoy marijuana legal or not.

Thanks for your time
16kadams

Con

"i give up i am tired of ignorant people"

My opponent conceded, vote CON.

Debate Round No. 3
smokeythebea

Pro

Yes ignorant people i lose i do not care.
16kadams

Con

I am not ignorant, nor are you, you have to see both sides of the story :P

Anyway, vote con.
Debate Round No. 4
smokeythebea

Pro

i concede
Debate Round No. 5
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
Next week
Posted by Danielle 5 years ago
Danielle
16k, you've debated this (and won) several times over with other opponents. Send me a challenge, or would you prefer I start it?
Posted by daytonanerd 5 years ago
daytonanerd
Pro obviously smoked way too many Kilos.

And in the words of Mr. Mackey:

"Crack is bad, M'Kay?"
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
I might
Posted by Danielle 5 years ago
Danielle
16k, debate me on this.
Posted by kylek32 5 years ago
kylek32
I agree with pro's side of the debate.
But I don't believe pro is qualified to debate this argument to such a well informed con.
Posted by OberHerr 5 years ago
OberHerr
Thats harsh....
Posted by 1dustpelt 5 years ago
1dustpelt
Pro is an ignorant bitch
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
now
Posted by smokeythebea 5 years ago
smokeythebea
when?
10 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by daytonanerd 5 years ago
daytonanerd
smokeythebea16kadamsTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro had too many Kilos
Vote Placed by twocupcakes 5 years ago
twocupcakes
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro conceded and I also give points to con for conduct
Vote Placed by Microsuck 5 years ago
Microsuck
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Reasons for voting decision: Conduct: Pro called con ignorant; Spelling: Pro needs to learn how to spell. Multiple times he forgot to capitalize "I". Arguments/Sources: Concede
Vote Placed by OberHerr 5 years ago
OberHerr
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Reasons for voting decision: LOLz.
Vote Placed by THEBOMB 5 years ago
THEBOMB
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Reasons for voting decision: lol
Vote Placed by vmpire321 5 years ago
vmpire321
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Reasons for voting decision: weed is bad
Vote Placed by Wallstreetatheist 5 years ago
Wallstreetatheist
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Reasons for voting decision: Concession
Vote Placed by 1dustpelt 5 years ago
1dustpelt
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Reasons for voting decision: bitch
Vote Placed by Stephen_Hawkins 5 years ago
Stephen_Hawkins
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro bitched and conceded.
Vote Placed by FREEDO 5 years ago
FREEDO
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Reasons for voting decision: Go cry about it, Pro. This is a debate site. People disagree. You debate with them.