The Instigator
Gogert777
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
KhalifV
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points

Marijuana legalization

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
KhalifV
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/22/2014 Category: Society
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,035 times Debate No: 57013
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (1)

 

Gogert777

Con

No acceptance, lets just go.

Legalizing would make America's drug problem spiral out of control. Marijuana should not be legalized because there is already a weed drug problem in the US.

Who is to say that said person would not pick up a bat and beat someone to death due to their impaired mental state? Marijuana impairs judgement on all levels.

Marijuana is known to kill brain cells, smoking weed is a disturbing trend. Young people need to keep their minds sharp. There are far too many students flunking out of school these days, marijuana might be to blame.

The quality of medical marijuana cannot be controlled for uniform strength and purity, because marijuana is not massed produced. With the production being so underground, there is no way to regulate anything that goes into the production of marijuana. Marijuana is mostly made by people who run small grow operations, or by criminals in other countries who smuggle it here.

What ever you have to say about weed, weed can still be a drug that will lead you to using others like cocaine or heroin. It will also lead to addiction and it will kill your body internally and externally. Let's say that a previous drug addict is injured and required medical marijuana. That means that they could go back to that drug.
Marijuana can harm you. Using marijuana can causes tachycardia or they can experience disorientation. Marijuana smoke has many cancer causing substances in it. Smoking it can damage your lungs. People who use marijuana for long periods of time can have brain damage and it can affect a person's memory. Marijuana also causes people to overeat which can make them obese.
It is a natural substance, but in the big picture of things, so is tobacco. As natural as it is, it an unnatural substance in the human body. Adding on the issue is the way the substance in ingested. Lungs were not made to inhale smoke, so I would have to think that marijuana is not healthy.
KhalifV

Pro

I would like to first thank my opponent for this debate. This is a very important issue.
I will first offer my case for marijuana legalization, then offer a brief refutation that I will elaborate on in my next round.

Now the motion is rather disingenuous. The motion should read:"Marijuana re-legalization. Marijuana is first referenced in history in 2900 BC by Chinese emperor Fu Hsi. Throughout history it has been used as a medicine. The personal journals of our founding fathers, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson would indicate that they were involved with hemp.
Marijuana wasn't illegal until 1911 in Massachusetts; so it's not like legalizing weed would be a first.

-Now the reason marijuana is illegal can't be because it's harmful, well it could be, but this would display a profound inconsistency in our government's policy. I shall explain why marijuana is not very harmful, but first let me list some substances that are legal and more harmful than marijuana.
1.Alcohol
2.Tobacco
3.Acetaminophen
4.Caffeine
5.Bitter Orange
6.Stamina RX
7.Cough Medicines
8.Helium
9.Paint
10.Glue
11.Sharpies
12,Benadryl
13. Nitrous Oxide
14. Viagra.

-Now to a certain degree it is of no relevance if weed is harmful, it is more so about liberty. Anybody over 21 can waltz on down to the store and buy alcohol. Everyone is aware of the harmful side effects of alcohol such as:
Slurred speech
Drowsiness
Vomiting
Diarrhea
Upset stomach
Headaches
Breathing difficulties
Distorted vision and hearing
Impaired judgment
Decreased perception and coordination
Unconsciousness
Anemia (loss of red blood cells)
Coma
Blackouts (memory lapses, where the drinker cannot remember events that occurred while under the influence)
unintentional injuries such as car crash, falls, burns, drowning
Intentional injuries such as firearm injuries, sexual assault, domestic violence
Increased on-the-job injuries and loss of productivity
Increased family problems, broken relationships
Alcohol poisoning
High blood pressure, stroke, and other heart-related diseases
Liver disease
Nerve damage
Sexual problems
Permanent damage to the brain
Vitamin B1 deficiency, which can lead to a disorder characterized by amnesia, apathy and disorientation
Ulcers
Gastritis (inflammation of stomach walls)
Malnutrition
Cancer of the mouth and throat.
However there are not a lot of people who are lobbying for alcohol illegalization. It is a fundamental right to be able to do what ever one wants to do with one's own body, including substance intake.

If one wants to make the case weed should be illegal for adverse effects, then one should have to argue for the illegalization of every substance worse than weed.

-Now let's get to the meat; is weed really that harmful? NO

Now what is often said of weed?
"Who is to say that said person would not pick up a bat and beat someone to death due to their impaired mental state? Marijuana impairs judgement on all levels."
Now this quote from CON is absurd. Weed is notorious for being a sedative. In some cases weed may cause one to be angry but these is an indirect effect, and is the case in a small percentage of marijuana users. The majority are "chill".
Weed withdraw causes anger. Please list a specific case in which a person only on weed committed a violent crime.
Recreational usage is largely unaffiliated with violence. Now a case may be made for gang related marijuana violence, but that flows from weeds illegal status, which I will expand on when I introduce the failures of the drug war.

"Marijuana is known to kill brain cells, smoking weed is a disturbing trend. Young people need to keep their minds sharp. There are far too many students flunking out of school these days, marijuana might be to blame."
Now this is even crazier than his last quote. New studies find that marijuana actually promotes neurogenesis . A link provided at the bottom of this post will be provided. It shows in an in depth study, that weed , specifically HU210 promotes neurogenesis.
Now even if marijuana killed brain cells, who cares?
Wanna know what else kills brain cells?
1.Shaking your head
2.Dehydration
3.Alcohol
4.Being Lazy
5.Over Hydration
6.Pessimistic thought
7.Stress
8.paint
9.Sleep Deprivation
10.Cigars
11.Exposure to electricity
None of the aforementioned are illegal, something killing brain cells is not a convincing reason to make it illegal.
The quote also implies pot users are dumb?
Are there smart people who smoke pot?
1.Maya Angelou'
2.Morgan Freeman
3.Steve Jobs
4.Carl Sagan
5.Richard Feynman
Also many sources show that graduation rates are increasing.

Now he states that the integrity of the product will be compromised if made legal. I would like CON to substantiate this because it is extremely counter intuitive. The integrity might now be compromised because it is now illegal and the primary way to obtain it is from drug dealers who must have it imported. However if it is made legal it can be regulated, and companies can keep the product pure. Medical marijuana seems to be pretty pure by the way.

-"What ever you have to say about weed, weed can still be a drug that will lead you to using others like cocaine or heroin. "
And finally weed as a gateway drug. I saw this coming.
I don't know of many experts who still espouse this notion. This whole notion is predicated upon the "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy. It confuses correlation with causality.

-Failures of the drug war
The drug war has been a ridiculous failure. Over a trillion dollars have been spent and what is to show?
1. 2.3 million behind bars. More than 500,000 are non-violent drug offenders.
2.More crime.
3.Fueling the cartels.
If weed was legal and taxed at rates comparable to alcohol, the US could save 41 billion a years.
If weed was legal the cartels would be less appealing.

Has prohibition ever worked? If we look at the 1920's the answer would be no.
All the alcohol prohibition brought was:
1.organized crime
2.Violence
3.Profound increase in cigar usage
4. Disdain for the law
5. A waste of a lot of money.
The current marijuana prohibition has mirrored the effects.

In conclusion: My opponent's main argument was " it's bad for you".
1.That's not the basis of making something illegal. As I showed, many legal substances are worse than marijuana.
2.New science shows marijuana isn't so bad.
3.It's not a gateway drug.
4.The costs of the drug war greatly outweigh the benefits.
5.If there is a weed problem, illegalization makes it worse not better.

Sources:
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org...
http://www.drugwarrant.com...
http://www.theweedblog.com...
http://www.drugfreeworld.org...
http://www.mpp.org...
http://www.jci.org...
http://4mind4life.com...
http://elitedaily.com...
http://healthland.time.com...
http://www.patheos.com...
http://www.cnn.com...
Debate Round No. 1
Gogert777

Con

Loss of will to do stuff (weed smokers call it getting lazy) and so you loose you job, or can't find a job
another thing, after a while you get short memory loss. Loss of will is an effect of marijuana, it's a side effect of mental addiction.
1) short memory loss
THC (or tetrohydrocannabinol, not sure if its 100% correctly written) is affecting the hippocampus
the hippocampus is responsible for saving the data we get in (sound, taste, feelings, stuff we say and think...)
when hippocampus is being put in narcotic state, it will loose some of its data, but worse, the cells forming the hippocampus are being killed with the logic result that the memory is shortened

2 loss of will
another part of our brain that's being affected by THC is the cerebellum
this is the part that controlled our movement by keeping balance, walking, fine tuned work
this will make you so stuff you don't want, and THC kills those cells to making it an effect that stays which will be noticed by your friends and family
your normal friends will want to ignore you, leaving you with only your friends who are the same as you
this makes you depressed and so you lose your will to care for yourself and your surroundings.

3 bad grades/bad employee
the cerebral cortex is also affected by THC, this will affect your way of seeing the world, this part of the brain translates the info coming from your senses (eyes, ears skin, taste)
it makes you see and hear things that are not there, this causes concentration problems and so makes you score bad on tests, makes your work in general less good.

Weed is just like any other drug, it has good feelings, but bad stuff in it
its up to you to keep taking it or notA279;.
Its a scientific fact that weed can help against pain, but that makes it a drug, and the facts that i gave you are proven by science
the brain does get affected by weed, there is an addictive substance in weed, it does affect your behavior
hopefully you understand what this means
you seem like you are reasonable so lets say that weed would be legal, it would create more poverty because less people can keep a job, the entire economy would collapse
look at holland.

They have weed legalized for some time now, and they have a lot more criminal behavior and poverty then lets say england
I been in holland, and its not pretty . Laziness is an effect of marijuana, it's not inherent to a person's character once the person doesn't think about his problems, which happens when you're stoned- that means it's an not an effect of being content, but of marijuana. I am talking about EVERY marijuana user based on my 7 or so examples. It's a case of weed being involved in a crazy person's life. A smoker doesn't pondered over his f*cked up life over some coffee or cigarettes, it's the weed that makes him flip. A single example can't change statistics but its just one example of the many examples out there. Marijuana has effects on memory loss and motivation, and is enough to name it as the cause of apathy and laziness.

You (pro) are a user
People who don't use it never would talk like that about a drug.
You know what, I'm fine with you thinking it doesn't affect the brain, for all i care, you think its healing.

The cancer stuff is true, I have to be honest here
but you say two things that contradicts each other here
it kill cancer cells, thats true, but then you say it generates new cells... (you said it in a more fancy way but to make sure everyone can follow, I'm using english here)
It does kill cancer cells, but to the body, cancer cells are just normal cells, and the killing of cancer cells happen in the brain where an hormone is injected in the blood that kills just cells, also cancer cell but cells in general no hormone can kill "just" cancer cells and at the same time re-generate new cells the cells that are generated are the ones that your body makes to replace the lost cells it happens without weed to and the body usually never replaces all cells, its impossible to replace them all at that rate
plus, the new cells are generated near the cancer cells, so they become cancer cells again but I'm pretty sure you will say that its a lie.

Think about this, why are there still so many people dying from cancer in holland, where weed is totally legal if weed would be the wonder cure
everyone above the age of 18 can buy it, its monetized by the government so doctors can tell patients about the wonders of weed and yet so many people die from cancer
and no doctor has ever talked about this... ?
isn't that strange ?A279;

I'm getting my info from toxicology books and (bio-)chemistry
if you think what I'm saying is propaganda, so be it. I'm totally fine with someone screwing up his/her life, but if others want innocent people to believe in pro drugs propaganda from addicts then I will offer a scientific counterpart in the discussion if the others believe the addicts then at least i know i tried to stop them from making a big mistake.A279;
KhalifV

Pro

Almost everything my opponent said about Holland/ The Netherlands is non-sense, however even if EVERYTHING he said was true, that still would not constitute a reason to keep it illegal.
If you would recall, I spent a lot of time making the point that it's not really about if weed is bad for you and that there is a lot of legal substances a lot more harmful than weed. He seems to have not read them.

My opponent made a point about addiction. Well only about 6% of marijuana users are addicted, however 13.7% of alcohol users become dependent.

I guess I'll concede point one, however that is not a good reason to keep weed illegal.

Points two and three, are subjective. I and my friends who smoke are at the top of our classes and experience no loss of will.

-Holland/Netherlands
Lets look at the actual happenings:
Crime reduction
Shutting down of black markets
Drastically reduced HIV
Also the rise in cancer in the Netherlands is due to population growth and demographic ageing, not weed

Now it is true there is a rise in poverty, but it has zero things to do with weed. I suggest reading the extensive study in my link.

-Clarification on cells
You have misunderstood my point. My point on neurogenesis, is that weed can stimulate neuron growth, however it can also kill cancer cells. The two are unrelated do not contradict.

In conclusion- CON has offered no good reason against legalization. The best he's got is ,hey it's bad for you kinda, but also good for you sometimes. As I stressed and stressed in my first round, there are many legal substances that cause more harm than weed, and CON has offered no reconciliation of weeds illegal status with the more harmful substances legal status.

http://www.iamexpat.nl...
http://www.thedailychronic.net...
http://www.roa.nl...
Debate Round No. 2
Gogert777

Con

You obviously have no clue about how the walls in your home are constructedA279;.
KhalifV

Pro

Indeed.
In conclusion Con did not respond to my arguments about the other legal substances more harmful than weed.
A lot of his arguments were post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Vote pro
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Gogert777 2 years ago
Gogert777
I got super high the last couple of nights. It was very good. I was wondering
who had the cleanest ears when i saw the one pack of ear cleaners and found the dolphin in this picture when it as a poster on the wall.
http://gumbomonster.files.wordpress.com...
So high. Go get high, and be happy.
-Gogert
Posted by Gogert777 2 years ago
Gogert777
Thats for the debate KhalifV, was fun.
Posted by Gogert777 2 years ago
Gogert777
Neither have I. That would be a sight to see and a funny one too.
Posted by iamanatheistandthisiswhy 2 years ago
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
"Who is to say that said person would not pick up a bat and beat someone to death due to their impaired mental state?" I have never seen anyone on Marijuana ever do anything that active in my life.
Posted by Gogert777 2 years ago
Gogert777
One of my closest friends die from smoking the stuff. Big Pharma may have done what it did but when they made it illegal, it saved us a lot of money and aggravation.
Posted by BasicLogic 2 years ago
BasicLogic
Don't forget that no one has ever died from a weed overdose.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
Gogert777KhalifVTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: pro was the one to use sources; his arguments were stronger