The Instigator
rogue
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
Korashk
Con (against)
Winning
46 Points

Mario is Superior to Luigi

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 10 votes the winner is...
Korashk
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/29/2010 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,746 times Debate No: 14185
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (14)
Votes (10)

 

rogue

Pro

Luigi is a wannabe Mario. Let's face it, Mario is the stronger, more handsome brother. Does the lovely Princess Peach want to be with Luigi? No! Of course not! She wants to be with the original not the imitator.
Korashk

Con

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I thank my opponent for creating this debate.

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Definitions:
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Mario – http://www.mariowiki.com...
Luigi – http://www.mariowiki.com...
Superior – of high or superior quality or performance; http://www.google.com...

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Rebuttals:
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/// Luigi is a wannabe Mario. ///

On the contrary, Luigi is Mario's brother, and until you show that Luigi wants to be Mario this assertion holds no weight.

~~~

/// Let's face it, Mario is the stronger, more handsome brother. ///

It is true that Mario is typically stronger than Mario, although in many games they are identical. However, being stronger does not mean one is superior in anything but strength. Also, "handsome" is a subjective matter; one that holds little weight in debate.

~~~

/// Does the lovely Princess Peach want to be with Luigi? No! Of course not! She wants to be with the original not the imitator. ///

The reason for this is that Princess Peach is in love with Mario, not Luigi. This doesn't really say anything about Luigi as love is a concept that goes beyond simple admiration of ability to connect individuals on seep levels. Not only that, but while Princess Peach may not love Luigi; Princess Daisy does.

~~~

I await my opponent's rebuttals.
Debate Round No. 1
rogue

Pro

Rebuttals:
/// Luigi is a wannabe Mario. ///

"On the contrary, Luigi is Mario's brother, and until you show that Luigi wants to be Mario this assertion holds no weight."

Well obviously since they are video game characters we shall never know. But, the evidence is that Luigi looks almost identical to Mario except that he is green and has an L on his hat and is slightly skinnier, has most of the same powers and moves in most games, and we also know that Mario came first. If Mario already established these things as being signature to him, it would seem that Luigi is imitating and is therefore trying to be like Mario.

/// Let's face it, Mario is the stronger, more handsome brother. ///

"It is true that Mario is typically stronger than Mario, although in many games they are identical. However, being stronger does not mean one is superior in anything but strength. Also, "handsome" is a subjective matter; one that holds little weight in debate."

First of all, you have conceded the point that Mario is stronger than Luigi. In their video games, it is vital to have the strongest character possible, making Mario superior to Luigi. Also, it is shown that Mario is more handsome by the fact that Princess Peach falls in love with him instead of Luigi. They look similar but apparently the differences have made a difference to Princess Peach.

/// Does the lovely Princess Peach want to be with Luigi? No! Of course not! She wants to be with the original not the imitator. ///

"The reason for this is that Princess Peach is in love with Mario, not Luigi. This doesn't really say anything about Luigi as love is a concept that goes beyond simple admiration of ability to connect individuals on seep levels. Not only that, but while Princess Peach may not love Luigi; Princess Daisy does."

Well, obviously Luigi was not good enough to get Princess Peach to fall in love with him where as Mario was. I would say that Daisy, like Luigi, is an imitator. But, Daisy wants to be Princess Peach. She again, is almost identical to Princess Peach except in color and is not as powerful. So, to be like Princess Peach, I believe that Daisy chose the other Mario brother.
Korashk

Con

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I thank my opponent for her rebuttals.

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Rebuttals
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/// Well obviously since they are video game characters we shall never know. But, the evidence is that Luigi looks almost identical to Mario except that he is green and has an L on his hat and is slightly skinnier, has most of the same powers and moves in most games, and we also know that Mario came first. If Mario already established these things as being signature to him, it would seem that Luigi is imitating and is therefore trying to be like Mario. ///

You're mistaking character design for character intentions. All of your "evidence" that Luigi wants to be Mario boils down to "the game developers made them similar" without referencing any sort of in-game canon that would suggest that Luigi has a conscious or unconscious desire to become his brother. Nothing about this makes Mario superior to Luigi.

~~~

/// First of all, you have conceded the point that Mario is stronger than Luigi. In their video games, it is vital to have the strongest character possible, making Mario superior to Luigi. ///

This is actually quite untrue, my statement that Mario is typically stronger was actually incorrect, upon further research I can only fond one instance in a canon Mario game where Luigi is weaker than Mario (Super Mario 2), In all other games their strength is identical. However, in a great many games within the Mario franchise one can defeat most enemies by jumping on their head once or twice. Regardless of which character you're playing as (examples including, but not limited to, Super Mario Bros. [2, Lost Levels, 3]). Strength really doesn't matter much. In addition to this in many games Luigi's powers are superior to Mario's in an unbalanced way. For instance, in The Lost levels Luigi is faster and can jump higher than Mario, Mario however, has better traction [1]. In Super Mario Galaxy Luigi could run faster and jump higher, the drawbacks were that it took a bit longer to get to top speed, his traction was again reduced, and he can't hold his breath as long. Water areas are less common than land ones in Mario games, rendering this drawback nearly meaningless, and being faster and a better jumper is a fine trade-off for not being able to stop as fast.

~~~

/// Also, it is shown that Mario is more handsome by the fact that Princess Peach falls in love with him instead of Luigi. ///
/// Well, obviously Luigi was not good enough to get Princess Peach to fall in love with him where as Mario was. ///

I admit that I am not the most knowledgeable on the subject of love, but even one such as myself realizes that there is more to it than looks and abilities [2]. I'll put this into a hypothetical scenario:

- A and B are males similar in abilities and appearance.
- C is a female that is interested in A.
- B is not interested in C
- B is interested in D who is similar in appearance and abilities to C.

Why does the fact that C is interested in A make A superior to B?

The simple fact of the matter is that it doesn't.

~~~

/// I would say that Daisy, like Luigi, is an imitator. But, Daisy wants to be Princess Peach. She again, is almost identical to Princess Peach except in color and is not as powerful. So, to be like Princess Peach, I believe that Daisy chose the other Mario brother. ///

These, like many others you've put forth, are bare assertions. They hold no weight without substantiation.

~~~

I await my opponent's reaponse.

[1] http://www.mariowiki.com...
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 2
rogue

Pro

"You're mistaking character design for character intentions. All of your "evidence" that Luigi wants to be Mario boils down to "the game developers made them similar" without referencing any sort of in-game canon that would suggest that Luigi has a conscious or unconscious desire to become his brother. Nothing about this makes Mario superior to Luigi."

Well if you are going to say that it because of the game developers then there is no argument because everything would then be the will of the game developers. There is no in-game canon to suggest Luigi isn't inferior to Mario. Well, If so, I say that in making Mario the original character and hero, that the game developers intended Mario to be superior.

Also, if we assume that they are not just governed by the video designers' will and that their actions are governed by the same factors as normal people or that the video designer created reasons for each character to be the way they are for a reason that would make sense for a real person, then if Mario was the original person with all the characteristics that Luigi shares, then what other reason would there be for Luigi to be so like Mario other than imitation?

This is actually quite untrue, my statement that Mario is typically stronger was actually incorrect, upon further research I can only fond one instance in a canon Mario game where Luigi is weaker than Mario (Super Mario 2), In all other games their strength is identical. However, in a great many games within the Mario franchise one can defeat most enemies by jumping on their head once or twice. Regardless of which character you're playing as (examples including, but not limited to, Super Mario Bros. [2, Lost Levels, 3]). Strength really doesn't matter much. In addition to this in many games Luigi's powers are superior to Mario's in an unbalanced way. For instance, in The Lost levels Luigi is faster and can jump higher than Mario, Mario however, has better traction [1]. In Super Mario Galaxy Luigi could run faster and jump higher, the drawbacks were that it took a bit longer to get to top speed, his traction was again reduced, and he can't hold his breath as long. Water areas are less common than land ones in Mario games, rendering this drawback nearly meaningless, and being faster and a better jumper is a fine trade-off for not being able to stop as fast.

This is true that Luigi can often jump higher and run faster, but he also in most games has less-powerful attacks. Mario gets by without jumping higher and running faster because there are items to help him with those drawbacks. However, when it comes to defeating the bosses, you need a powerful character like Mario to defeat them. This makes Mario a superior video game character.

"I admit that I am not the most knowledgeable on the subject of love, but even one such as myself realizes that there is more to it than looks and abilities [2]. I'll put this into a hypothetical scenario:

- A and B are males similar in abilities and appearance.
- C is a female that is interested in A.
- B is not interested in C
- B is interested in D who is similar in appearance and abilities to C.

Why does the fact that C is interested in A make A superior to B?"

For one I would say that it is because they are so similar. Well it is not just that she is blindly in love with Mario. Mario rescued her from Bowser and defeated many fearsome and dangerous enemies and tasks to do so. Luigi did not accomplish this. Peach admires Mario for his accomplishments. He could not have achieved so much and Luigi not without Mario have some kind of superior character to Luigi.
Korashk

Con

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I thank my opponent for her response.

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Rebuttals
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/// There is no in-game canon to suggest Luigi isn't inferior to Mario. Well, If so, I say that in making Mario the original character and hero, that the game developers intended Mario to be superior. ///

Original = Superior; is a non-sequitur.

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/// …then if Mario was the original person with all the characteristics that Luigi shares, then what other reason would there be for Luigi to be so like Mario other than imitation? ///

They're brothers. Family members are typically similar to each other.

~~~

/// [1] This is true that Luigi can often jump higher and run faster, but he also in most games has less-powerful attacks. [2] Mario gets by without jumping higher and running faster because there are items to help him with those drawbacks. [3] However, when it comes to defeating the bosses, you need a powerful character like Mario to defeat them. ///

[1] No, in most games their strengths and abilities are nigh identical, with the only differences being those I mentioned.
[2] Luigi can also use those items.
[3] Untrue, and in certain games listed such as Super Mario 64 DS Luigi is the only character capable of beating certain areas.

~~~

/// For one I would say that it is because they are so similar. Well it is not just that she is blindly in love with Mario. Mario rescued her from Bowser and defeated many fearsome and dangerous enemies and tasks to do so. Luigi did not accomplish this. Peach admires Mario for his accomplishments. He could not have achieved so much and Luigi not without Mario have some kind of superior character to Luigi. ///

There's also the fact that Mario loves Peach back while Luigi has no such feelings for Peach and instead loves Daisy. I do not know why you are still clinging to this absurd contention. One person loving another says nothing explicit about a different person.

~~~

I await my opponent's response.
Debate Round No. 3
rogue

Pro

Original = Superior; is a non-sequitur."

Well in most games the original and main character is intended by the game developers to be superior to a side character like Luigi.

"They're brothers. Family members are typically similar to each other."

Normal family members don't usually dress almost exactly like another.

"[1] No, in most games their strengths and abilities are nigh identical, with the only differences being those I mentioned.
[2] Luigi can also use those items.
[3] Untrue, and in certain games listed such as Super Mario 64 DS Luigi is the only character capable of beating certain areas."

evidence please? At least in the Super Smash Bros. series, what I said is true.

"There's also the fact that Mario loves Peach back while Luigi has no such feelings for Peach and instead loves Daisy. I do not know why you are still clinging to this absurd contention. One person loving another says nothing explicit about a different person."

Well, we don't actually know what their feeling truly are or why because they are video game characters, but were they in the real world, it would seem both Luigi and Daisy are trying to be like their counterparts Mario and Daisy.

I'm not clinging to a contention. I'm going on with it because it amuses me. If my opponent hasn't realized already, I'm not taking this debate very seriously, I'm doing it for fun.
Korashk

Con

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I thank my opponent for her response.

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Rebuttals
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/// Well in most games the original and main character is intended by the game developers to be superior to a side character like Luigi. ///

This is conjecture, nothing more. It holds no weight in a formal debate.

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/// Normal family members don't usually dress almost exactly like another. ///

Neither do Mario and Luigi. Their dress is similar only in style. It is not difficult at all to tell them apart. A perfectly reasonable explanation for this is that they're PLUMBERS. Their attire is that which is stereotypically worn by their profession.

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/// evidence please? At least in the Super Smash Bros. series, what I said is true. ///

Evidence is given in earlier rounds, meaning that what you're saying is actually blatantly false.

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/// Well, we don't actually know what their feeling truly are or why because they are video game characters, but were they in the real world, it would seem both Luigi and Daisy are trying to be like their counterparts Mario and Daisy. ///

Actually, their in-game feelings are completely apparent. Mario loves Peach and vice versa. Luigi loves Daisy and vice versa.

~~~

Pro has failed to meet her burden of proof. I have shown not only that is Luigi isn't inferior to Mario, but that he is actually superior to his brother. This debate goes to Con.
Debate Round No. 4
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
Wait a second! This was KORASHK, not Kenyon. o.O;
Too many bongs. Korashk isn't a bastard, though I suppose he is a bit wonderful. ^_-
Posted by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
Kenyon is a wonderful bastard, but a bastard none the less. Personally, I don't think you did TOO badly. I think you focused too much on the strength aspect and Kenyon rebutted that to my satification as well as the love argument. Chin up rogue.
Posted by rogue 6 years ago
rogue
Whatever. Lesson learned. I don't think most of my arguments were that bad. Except for the love one.
Posted by annhasle 6 years ago
annhasle
While you think it's a fun debate, that doesn't lessen the expectations of the voters, reduce the standards used to effectively review each debate or get rid of the fact that this IS a *debate*. That means you will need to back up your contentions, use sources, have coherent arguments and basically -- put forward a solid debate. You can still have fun but this is debate.org. If you want to have "fun" with less expectations, go to the Miscellaneous forum and post in a Forum game. But formal debating will remain at it's current standards by which you will be judged.
Posted by rogue 6 years ago
rogue
Whatever. I don't see it as credible. I didn't have as much fun with this because Con was so serious and uptight. Vote Con if you like.
Posted by mongeese 6 years ago
mongeese
Wikipedia is quite commonly used as a source, and is rarely challenged. It is rarely wrong, and is fixed almost immediately when it is.

Conduct is a tie. I didn't see any major infractions.
Spelling/Grammar is a tie. While PRO made a few annoying errors, it wasn't enough to warrant an entire point.
Arguments goes to CON. From personal experience, I can vouch for the family member argument, and the plumber argument makes sense as well.
CON also cited Super Mario 64 DS, and as a guy who has beaten that game more times than I care to count, I can confidently say that Luigi broke that game. There are so many Power Stars that he makes so much less difficult than intended. Luigi Coptor FTW.
And even though Mario is supposedly stronger than Luigi, in few games has this extra strength ever seemed to make an impact, the only exceptions being the Mario & Luigi series and the Smash Bros. series, and in both games, Luigi has his own advantages to make up for it.
The love contention was rather effectively negated through Daisy.
Sources also goes to CON, the only person to use sources.
Posted by Korashk 6 years ago
Korashk
/// it isn't fact checked the way it's supposed to be. ///

Wikis usually have a community of quality control people that ensure the accuracy of content. Plus it is a rare page that doesn't use sources to substantiate information. Those ones are typically removed.
Posted by rogue 6 years ago
rogue
anyone can post anything and it isn't fact checked the way it's supposed to be.
Posted by Korashk 6 years ago
Korashk
Why not?
Posted by rogue 6 years ago
rogue
Wikipedia is not a credible source.
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