The Instigator
AlbertNewton1302
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Yonko
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Mario is better than Sonic

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/13/2015 Category: Games
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 390 times Debate No: 80896
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

AlbertNewton1302

Con

Sonic is faster, can roll slide, he is the leader of the gang.

And his gang is easier to handle.
Yonko

Pro

I accept the debate!
Should be a fun one ;D
Debate Round No. 1
AlbertNewton1302

Con

Sir, my view on the topic would be that Sonic is a very underrated character and being a hedgehog... He is relatively unknown. Everyone knows an Italian plumber who was made in Japan and is very popular among Americans. But my client needs more space and fame to be actually a super franchise. I agree that Sega has indeed worked on my previous point, and sonic the hedgehog is indeed a famous character but not much if compared to your client there.

I would like to save my arguments for the next round.

Thank you
Yonko

Pro

Before we can proceed with this debate, we must ask -- what exactly is meant by "better"?

I'm not sure why Con implied last round that "better" means something along the lines of "popular" or "famous", because he actually agrees that Sonic loses to Mario under that standard. I will instead advocate the standard which Con seemed to point towards in his opening round -- the characters' abilities. I propose that we evaluate whose abilities are superior through the lens of a battle between the two.

Con's only points are that Sonic is fast, can perform the move known as Spin Dash, and apparently has a cool "gang". I will prove that Mario's abilities allow him to overcome these things and beat Sonic in a fight.

== Speed ==

I will readily concede that Sonic is faster than Mario. In fact, it is by far Sonic's biggest advantage over Mario. However, Mario has plenty of ways to counter this, the most effective of which is his aerial abilities. According to MarioWiki:

"Mario's most notable ability is his Jump, which is his basic move he relies on to defeat enemies, avoid obstacles, and activate helpful items such as ? Blocks and P-Switches... He is also capable of several acrobatic maneuvers, including the Long Jump, Back Flip, Spin Jump, and Wall Jump" [1]. More importantly, "Mario has fourteen power-ups that allow him to fly: the Wing, the Super Leaf, the Tanooki Suit, the P-Wing, the Cape Feather, the Power Balloon, the Wing Cap, the Power Flower, the Bee Mushroom, the Boo Mushroom, the Red Star, the Propeller Mushroom, the Invincibility Leaf, and the Super Acorn" [1].

Sonic only has his speed where there is ground to run on, so Mario's aerial abilities alone are enough to undermine Sonic's speed advantage. By flying and jumping around, Mario could easily avoid all of Sonic's speed-based battle tactics.

In addition to flying power-ups, Mario also has power-ups like the Star and the Mega-Mushroom, which would be helpful against speed for obvious reasons [2]. The former temporarily grants Mario a state of God-like invincibility in which everything he touches dies and his speed is increased to the point that he could potentially rival Sonic's average speed. The latter temporarily grants Mario enormous size, which entails massive destructive power, virtually infinite durability, and the ability to stomp hedgehogs into the ground. Sonic's speed is rendered useless in face of either of these power-ups.

Another important counter-measure which Mario has against Sonic's speed is his literally infinite stamina. Video [3] is just one example among many where Mario sprints through an entire level without breaking a sweat; he often travels through entire *worlds* in a single sitting, demonstrating that it simply isn't possible to tire him out. His infinite stamina is further evidenced by his similarly infinite lung capacity -- Video [4] shows how during aquatic levels, Mario is able to stay submerged underwater for unlimited periods of time. Infinite stamina is obviously very advantageous in battle -- no matter how fast Sonic may run, Mario will never get tired of chasing after him and trying to pin him down.

Lastly, Video [3] also shows that Mario possesses an incredible amount of *natural* speed and agility. It's obviously not on par with Sonic's, but it is sufficient to ensure that even if none of Mario's other counter-measures work out, Sonic's speed alone will not be enough to dominate the fight. Taken together, Mario's natural speed/agility, aerial ability, infinite stamina, and unbeatable power-ups easily outweigh the speed differential between him and Sonic.

== Spin Dash ==

The Spin Dash is, indeed, a powerful move, but Mario could definitely defeat it. Observe Video [5] from approximately 6:00 onwards -- Mario is capable of grabbing Bowser (who weighs at least a couple tons) by the tail, spinning him around several times at a relatively high speed, and then throwing him a long distance away. This denotes an *enormous* amount of brute strength on Mario's part. If we consider that in conjunction with the exceptional martial arts talent he demonstrates in Video [6], then we have more than enough reason to believe that Mario could stop a Spin Dash in its tracks.

Furthermore, many of Mario's power-ups [2] could come in handy, including the Fire Flower, Ice Flower, and Blue Shell (which is literally the Mario-Universe equivalent of a Spin Dash). The Spin Dash simply does not pose a threat to Mario.

== Cooler Gang ==

This doesn't matter, because we are debating the merits of Mario and Sonic as *individuals*. I can be the best person ever yet still be friends with a bunch of losers, and similarly, someone can be a complete idiot but still somehow manage to get in with the cool kids. The coolness of your "gang" is irrelevant to your individual qualities. And even if it IS relevant, Con has not put forth any substantive argument to show that Sonic's gang is objectively better than Mario's -- all he has done is given his subjective opinion on the issue. I can easily match this level of analysis:

"Amy and Tails are annoying af. Toad and Yoshi are cute, and Luigi is a boss. Therefore Mario's gang is better."

-

In conclusion, we have clearly seen that Mario has superior abilities to Sonic, and is therefore the better character.

Thank you.

-

1. http://www.mariowiki.com...
2. http://www.mariowiki.com...
3. https://www.youtube.com...
4. https://www.youtube.com...
5. https://www.youtube.com...
6. https://www.youtube.com...
Debate Round No. 2
AlbertNewton1302

Con

I agree with your statement about what exactly is "better". Since you wrote a lot about how Mario can defeat Sonic even if Sonic uses his trademark attacks.
But according to a reliable source, these powers and abilities might just give Sonic the edge:
"Super Speed: Often referred to as the "Fastest Thing Alive", Sonic is well known for his speed. His best known clocks in at over 768 miles per hour. When boosting for a long time it is possible for his speed to reach over 2500mph. Sonic can use his speed while he's in spinball form to home in on targets in a similar fashion of heat seeking missiles.

He is even capable of moving as fast as light with the aid of his Light Speed Attack.

Sonic can use his speed to scale up building or similar structures and run across water. Sonic can also use his full speed while running backwards.

Sonic also possesses great agility and acrobatic skills. His reaction time is also on par with his speed. He can avoid objects and attacks in an instant with his quickstep move, no matter how fast the attack is coming at him."

We've already talked about his super-sonic speed but this one of the main ability which puts Sonic ahead of Mario, literally and figuratively.

"Super Strength: While not known for his physical capabilities, Sonic possess a certain degree of superhuman strength.His Spin Dash is strong enough to break through solid structures and the metallic armor of multiple robots. His arms also yield great strength as he can tear a robot's body with his bare hands."

I would like to differ with your point that Mario can be more powerful than Sonic. The ultimate power-ups, which majorly include edible fungi in different colors, don't actually make Mario a better individual. We are here to talk about which character is better and not the franchise providing us with easier and suitable ways to kill the enemy.

"Combat Prowess: Despite receiving no formal training in self-defense, Sonic has been shown to be skilled in close-quarter combat. He has been shown to go against more experienced fighters, include those, stronger than him."

Sonic defeats a mad scientist who is way stronger and has more protection than Bowser in every way. Mario is saving a Princess which is very repetitive and clich" and to be honest, it"s not helping the world or any place at all; the only place which is actually affected by Bowser is Mushroom Kingdom, a small place which is vulnerable to predictable attacks from the same villain. But Sonic is saving the world by defeating Eggman.

Let's consider your power-up point for once; even in that area, Sonic proves to be greater.

The two ultimate powers which most certainly make Sonic superior than Mario are "Super Sonic" and "Chaos Control".

1. Super Sonic is one of the most powerful of his transformations. Usually achieved when he acquires seven Chaos Emeralds, or one Super Emerald, Super Sonic has the ability to fly and is virtually invincible. His aura can negate negative energies, such as Perfect Chaos or Enerjak.

2. According to http://sonic.wikia.com..., "Chaos Control is a Chaos Power that first appeared in Sonic Adventure 2 which allows the user to warp time and space with the mystical Chaos Emeralds. While first introduced as a way to teleport over large distances, Chaos Control has since been evolved into an overall term for any supernatural reality manipulation conducted through the Chaos Emeralds, allowing incredible feats such as traveling through time and between dimensions, altering the fabric of reality, or freezing time.

Chaos Control is also known to be the power source for various chaos energy-based Chaos Powers."

In which Universe would Mario be a match for that?
Yonko

Pro

Thanks to Con for his speedy (heheheh) response.

-

== Speed ==

Con doesn't really contest any of my points under this section. All he does is give evidence for the large speed differential between Mario and Sonic, but I never denied the existence of that differential. Instead, I spent more than half of last round explaining why Mario would be able to *overcome* the differential and still win the fight. Allow me to re-iterate:

Mario is capable of staying airborne for the majority of the battle thanks to his flying power-ups and superhuman jump. This is a problem for Sonic because he only has his speed advantage where there is a surface to run on -- in other words, the combat utility of his speed is basically nullified by the fact that Mario can completely avoid it by just taking to the air. However, Mario's aerial abilities aren't only a means for defense against Sonic's speed-based tactics. They can also serve as great offense if used in conjunction with his infinite stamina, phenomenal martial arts skill, and natural speed/agility. He could avoid all of Sonic's attacks AND pull off well-aimed combos left and right, landing hit after hit on the hedgehog.

== Power-Ups ==

Con brought up a good reason for why power-ups should not be considered in this debate... but then he proceeded to talk about Sonic's power-ups anyways, so I think it's fair for me to assume that Mario has access to power-ups as well.

Super Sonic may be a powerful transformation, but it simply doesn't compare to Mario's Star Mode. As we can see from Video [1], Star Mode puts Mario into a literally invincible state where, for a short period of time, he can kill everything in his path -- including hedgehogs. On the other hand, Sonic's transformation is far from having this level of power. If we take a look at the first few minutes of Video [2], we see that Super Sonic is unable to beat an unnamed enemy, eventually just resorting to throwing away all the Chaos Emeralds (the source of Super Sonic's power) and making a quick escape by falling down to Earth. If Star Mario was in such a situation, he would simply ram into the enemy, instantly finishing him off.

Star Mario is clearly stronger than Super Sonic. That said, Star Mode would not be a very good offensive tactic for Mario to use, since Sonic could probably just outrun it. Instead, it would be used more as a defensive measure against Super Sonic. A direct, two-way clash between the characters' most powerful forms would inevitably end in a victory for Mario, so in order to avoid escalating the battle to that point, Sonic (if he's smart) would abstain from turning Super.

As for Chaos Control, this is not a technique which Sonic is well-versed in. Most of the abilities from Con's article have only ever been used by Shadow the Hedgehog (who has full mastery over the technique). The only time Sonic has ever used Chaos Control unaided is in the scene depicted in Video [3] (starting from about 2:00) -- under life-or-death circumstances, Sonic managed to perform a single teleportation, and even that took quite a bit of time and effort on his part. He simply does not know Chaos Control well enough to use it effectively in combat.

So neither of Sonic's power-ups can feasibly be used in battle. Meanwhile, Mario still has things like the Fire Flower, Ice Flower, Mega-Mushroom, Blue Shell, and various other mushrooms & flowers (e.g. penguin, springs, clouds, rock, rainbow, etc). All of these could be used strategically to enhance the aerial combos discussed under the Speed section [4].

== Physical Strength ==

Sonic being able to break through numerous layers of metallic armor is impressive, but that's only one step above what actual human karate masters can do (i.e. breaking through numerous layers of brick and stone). On the other hand, Mario is able to do something which is truly beyond the limits of human potential -- grab a several-ton beast by the tail, swing him around in circles, and throw him a long distance away with enough force to detonate an explosive. Mario's brute physical strength easily outmatches Sonic's. Really, just looking at the difference in their body structure should be enough to affirm that...

Con bringing up Eggman vs. Bowser actually turns against him. Eggman only fights using robots, and they are not particularly durable robots, given that they can usually be obliterated within a couple strikes. On the other hand, Bowser is literally the epitome of durability. I request that the audience watch Video [5]. Not only because it is hilarious, but also because it shows that Mario has had to resort to some incredibly harsh methods in order to defeat Bowser, including....

- boiling him alive in magma

- repeatedly throwing him into explosives

- causing him to fall down enormous heights

- punching him into the Sun

- punching him into a black hole,

- shooting him several times at close range

- crushing him with a gigantic Yoshi egg

- running him over with a train

And what's even scarier is that none of these things actually kill Bowser -- they merely incapacitate him long enough for the Princess to be rescued. He's always back eventually to try kidnapping the Princess again. Bowser is, without a doubt, one of the most terrifyingly strong enemies in video game history, and the fact that Mario has managed to defeat him so many times with little more than his wits and bare hands is a testament to his incredible strength & skill as a fighter.

== Utility to the World ==

I'm not sure why Con brought this up, as it's not relevant to the characters' performance in battle, but I'll address it anyways. In the Mario Universe, the Mushroom Kingdom IS "the world", so Mario's job is essentially to save the ruler of the world from peril. This is just as important (if not more so) than stopping a single mad scientist from taking over the world, especially since his motives for conquest are more related to harmless self-aggrandizement than any real malicious intent.

-

And with that, I hand the debate back over to Con :)

-

1. https://www.youtube.com...
2. https://www.youtube.com...
3. https://www.youtube.com...
4. http://www.mariowiki.com...
5. https://www.youtube.com...
Debate Round No. 3
AlbertNewton1302

Con

AlbertNewton1302 forfeited this round.
Yonko

Pro

Yonko forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
AlbertNewton1302

Con

Pro indeed correctly pointed out flaws in my points against Mario but I would like to present my views in this final round.

Rather than actually trying to prove my point, I'm going to point out the mistakes and flaws in the Pro's argument.

1. Speed is the major thing which pushes Sonic forward when compared to Mario. Pro talks about how Mario can escape or avoid or rather compete against Sonic's speed. His point regarding being airborne is to some extent valid but in a combat, Sonic shall indeed triumph. It is basic physics that if an object with a relative high velocity hits another object, the damage can be destructive.

The Pro states that he can "avoid" Sonic's attacks. I think that statement itself is a proof of the inaccuracy regarding Pro's notion.

2. I very clearly stated in my argument that I'm going to use the Power-ups point just because Pro had started it and all I meant by my counter was that his point is not actually true. Thus, I shall not proceed to write anymore about this point.

3. We are not having a villain versus villain criteria to determine which hero is more stronger as far as physical strength goes. But I'll just restate my point very briefly. How can you actually say that Bowser is a "several ton beast"? For all we know he might just be a weak creature having a durable shell with spikes on it and somehow manages to spew fire. But again, that's not the point of the argument.

---
I would request all viewers and Pro to pardon me for my late and short submission which doesn't contain any references or videos. This argument has been solely written on the basis of my knowledge.

It's been a great experience to debate on this topic especially because it was my first one.
With that, I rest my case and hand over the debate to Pro. ---
Yonko

Pro

Yonko forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by AlbertNewton1302 1 year ago
AlbertNewton1302
LOL

No VOTES!
Posted by AlbertNewton1302 1 year ago
AlbertNewton1302
breakingamber

I hope you see the irony in your statement.
Posted by Yonko 1 year ago
Yonko
It hasn't started yet...
Posted by breakingamber 1 year ago
breakingamber
This is stupid so far.
No votes have been placed for this debate.