The Instigator
PatriotPerson
Pro (for)
Winning
8 Points
The Contender
Juris_Naturalis
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Marvel copies ideas from DC.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
PatriotPerson
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/6/2013 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 7,118 times Debate No: 36419
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

PatriotPerson

Pro

I will be arguing that most of Marvel's major characters and storylines are just ripoff's/copies of DC's. First round=acceptance.
Juris_Naturalis

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
PatriotPerson

Pro

Let me first bring up similarities between Batman and Iron Man's origins. Before I start, I will give proof that Bats came before Iron Man. Bats first appeared in Detective Comics #27, which was released in 1939. Iron man first appeared in Tales of Suspense #39, which was released in 1963. Now let's compare their shortened origins.

Both are boys (Bruce Wayne, Tony Stark) whose parents (Thomas & Martha, Howard & Maria) are killed tragically (Murder, Car Wreck). The parents owned companies (Wayne Industries, etc., Stark Industries, etc.) that the son is forced to own through the family line. Both avenge their parents in a way (Fighting crime, fighting for a better future), by using fancy suits and gadgets (Batsuit, Utility Belt, etc., Iron Man Suit, Repulsors, etc.) that they made with their skills and money. Eventually, the hero (Batman, Iron Man) saves the girl (Rachel Dawes or whoever, Pepper Potts) from the villain (Scarecrow, Iron Monger).
These origins are the ones based on the movies Batman Begins and Iron Man.


Now the copies I state will be shorter. This one contains DC's Green Lantern and Marvel's Nova. GL first appeared in All-American Comics #16, which was released July 1940. Nova first appeared in Nova #1, which was released September 1976. As obvious, GL came 36 years before Nova. Nova and GL have practically the same abilities; and you know how there is the Green Lantern Corps? Well, did you know about the NOVA CORPS? Really, Marvel?


There will be more instances of Marvel copying DC, but for the end I will share a really sad one: Deathstroke and Deadpool. Both mercenaries. Deathstroke first appeared: New Teen Titans Vol. 1 #2, which was released December 1980. Deadpool first appeared: New Mutants #98, which was released February 1991. Also as obvious, they were released eleven years apart, with Deathstroke coming first.


NOW HERE'S THE KICKER: What is Deathstroke's real name? That's right: Slade Wilson. Oh what's that I hear? Deadpool's real name is WADE Wilson? SERIOUSLY, MARVEL???

Juris_Naturalis

Con

Juris_Naturalis forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
PatriotPerson

Pro

Bah! My opponent has forfeited. But, nevertheless, I will still provide ways Marvel has copied DC:

1. DC: Catwoman Marvel: Black Cat
First Appearances. Catwoman: Batman #1 (Spring 1940). Black Cat: The Amazing Spider-Man #194 (July 1979). As you can see, Catwoman came nearly 40 years before Black Cat.
The Similarites: Both are cat-burglars who have on-and-off-again relationships with the main hero (Batman and Spider-Man, respectively). They both use seduction to weaken their male opponents and are (obviously) based off of cats.

2. DC: Amazo Marvel: Super-Skrull
First Appearances. Amazo: The Brave and the Bold #30 (June 1960). Super-Skrull: Fantastic Four #18 (Sep. 1963). As you can see, the two debuted three years apart.
The Similarities: Both are villains who can copy the powers of superheroes in a certain team (Justice League and Fantastic Four, respectively).

3. DC: Green Arrow Marvel: Hawkeye
First Appearances. Green Arrow: More Fun Comics #73 (Nov. 1941). Hawkeye: Tales of Suspense #57 (Sept. 1964). As you can see, Green Arrow came first.
The Similarities: Both men are professional archers who are somehow connected to crime (GA poses as a Robin Hood-like figure, Hawkeye used to be a super-villain). Death: Both heroes died at some point in the comics, and it was big. Then, both came back from the dead somehow. That too, was big. Finally, they have relationships with............................................................................WILL BE FIRST COMPARISON NEXT ROUND!

And yes! There WILL be more next round!

And here's my message to Con: DON'T FORFEIT AGAIN!
Juris_Naturalis

Con

First off, Batman and Iron man, origins aside, are absolutely nothing at all alike. Iron man's identity is publicly known, not so with Batman (to the best of my knowledge). Iron man is very up front and in your face when he fights his enemies. Batman is more stealthy and tends to be more nocturnal per se. Batman has taken on NUMEROUS sidekicks whereas Iron man has really only had one (War Machine). Batman's woman dies and Pepper lives to this day.

Actually, GL and Nova don't have any of the same powers. Nova is described as having gravimetric abilities whereas the GL is described as having a Power ring which allows flight, superhuman strength, and hard-light constructs with use of said power ring. So I don't see how the 2 are related at all (1 & 2).

The comparison between Deadpool and Deathstroke was actually real humorous for me because the creator of Deadpool knew the creator of Deathstroke. They gave them similar characteristics and names as an inside joke to make it seem like they were related (3).

Cat-ladies.

The black cat is actually very different from catwoman once you look at the fact that the black cat has a superhuman sense of smell and sight (night vision). The black cat can also manipulate probability. Did I mention that Catwoman has retractable claws and has none of the abilities of black cat (4 & 5)?

Amazo/Super Skrull:

Actually, Amazo is the only one who impersonates abilities. Super Skrull on the other hand is described as having
Superhuman strength, stamina, and durability, Body elasticity, Pyrokinesis, Flight, Invisibility, Shapeshifting, Hypnosis, Hand to hand combat master, Superb impersonator, Excellent tactician, Expert pilot. So, not the same. They don't even bear any physical resemblance. (6 & 7)

Arrow/Hawkeye:

The green arrow is a billionaire business man. Hawkeye was a carnival preformed who started out preforming stunts with a bow and arrow. Hawkeye takes on a number of other aliases including the Goliath and Ronin and is trained with more weapons than the Green Arrow. So on the outside they look similar but really aren't once you look deeper. (8 & 9)

1. http://en.wikipedia.org...(Sam_Alexander)
2. http://en.wikipedia.org...
3.http://en.wikipedia.org...
4.http://en.wikipedia.org...(comics)
5.http://en.wikipedia.org...
6.http://en.wikipedia.org...
7.http://en.wikipedia.org...
8.http://en.wikipedia.org...
9.http://en.wikipedia.org...(comics)

Sorry about my forfeited round, I went out of town unexpectedly and my wifi access wasn't constant.
Debate Round No. 3
PatriotPerson

Pro

First of all, I would like to thank Con for making an argument.

1. The idea is not based on what the hero acts like/sidekicks, or whatever. It's about their origin, name, job, and stuff like that. Did I mention that both Batman and Iron Man are genius, billionaire, playboy, philantropists? Marvel takes the ideas and characters of DC and changes their name, some of their origin, their costume, and maybe their powers. That's not a fair game, now is it, Marvel?

2. You argue that Green Lantern and Nova don't have the same powers at all. Let's look at Green Lantern's powers, as said by Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org...
-Flight
-Superhuman Strength
-Energy Projection (Constructs)

Now let's look at some of Nova's powers: http://en.wikipedia.org...(Richard_Rider)
-Flight
-Superhuman Strength
-Energy Projection

As you can see, their powers are very similar. On to the next one.

3. It doesn't matter about the creators knowing each other and trying to be humorous. What matters is Marvel copying DC, and in this case, even you admitted they did.

4. Again as I have stated before, their super-abilities comparing to the other not having any does not prove anything. I am not stating the exact same thing again, so if you want to know, refer to the first sentence of my first paragraph of this round.

5. Amazo does not "impersonate" abilities. He actually has them. And the definition of impersonate doesn't even go with what you are saying. https://www.google.com...
You see, impersonations are when one pretends to be another person. And all those abilities you stated that Super-Skrull has are ones that are powers of the Fantastic Four (Such as how Amazo has the powers of the Justice League). I will show you how:
Superhuman Strength: The Thing
Stamina: Mister Fantastic (I presume)
Durability: The Thing
Body Elasticity: Mister Fantastic
Pyrokinesis: Human Torch
Flight: Human Torch
Invisibility: Invisible Woman
Shapeshifting: Mister Fantastic
Hypnosis: Maybe that's just part of being a Skrull.
Combat Master: Anyone can be a combat master. If anything, Amazo, too, is a combat master. It just takes training.
Superb Impersonator: Hey! You got the definition right! Any way, this is just an ability that most can do with enough intelligence. Perhaps he gets this intellinge from Mister Fantastic or Invisible Woman.
Tactician: Probably from Mister Fantastic or Human Torch, maybe even Invisible Woman.
Pilot: Mister Fantastic.

Physical resemblance is a tricky thing. You see, Marvel's strategy is to copy the character, then change things such as their physical appearance.

6. I already stated how these two are similar. There's the whole archer aspect, the death thing, and the relationships.

My sources have already been stated within this rebutal, therefore they will not be posted down here.
Juris_Naturalis

Con

Let me ask you this. You claim that Marvel copies ideas from DC, but you're just providing examples of how Marvel copied SOME characters. DC may have come up with the idea of those characters, but by that alone, does that mean DC owns the idea? Can you prove DC owns the idea? If you can't, is Marvel really copying them? I'd hazard a guess to say no because if Marvel really were copying DC's ideas that they own, they would sue Marvel for plagiarism or something of the sort.
Debate Round No. 4
PatriotPerson

Pro

Oh my, here I go with definitions again.

Copy: A thing made to be similar or identical to another.
Plagiarism: The practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

With the definition of copy said, it is shown that Marvel has done this same process. You argue that I argue that Marvel only copies some characters. However, if you copy some characters, you are copying the company, because those characters belong to that company. Get what I'm sayin'? I'll provide an example:

MARVEL: Deadpool DC: Deathstroke
With these similarities previously provided, you can see that Deadpool belongs to Marvel, and Deathstroke to DC. Since these characters are very similar with Deathstroke coming first, it can be seen that Marvel copied DC in this case, if not all.

I have never made the claim that DC OWNS the idea. I'm simply saying that Marvel is using the idea. Think about this. When (if) you have a dog, you have that dog. But maybe you don't want/have the time to walk him/her, so you hire somebody to walk the dog for you. This is gonna sound kind of funny, but let's say Deathstroke is DC's dog. Marvel walks DC's dog, and on the way calls him Deadpool. Confusing, I know, but you understand, don't you?

DC is never going to sue Marvel for anything. It's a thing called kindness. The men and women at DC want both companies to coexist peacefully, and I'm sure Marvel wants the same, even though they are business rivals. I'm sure the DC workers have noted the idea of Marvel copying them, but they don't wanna cause a fuss or problem about anything. Because they know that if they do, their reputation will drastically decrease and there's a chance they won't win the sue in court.
Juris_Naturalis

Con

"Copy: A thing made to be similar or identical to another.
Plagiarism: The practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own."

So if one where to copy another man's work, that would be called, wait for it, plagiarism.

"I have never made the claim that DC OWNS the idea. I'm simply saying that Marvel is using the idea."

If D.C doesn't own the idea or hasn't copyrighted the idea, then you can't claim that Marvel copies them. That's how the press works. I can write a bestselling book called "The life of an apple" and publish it. But if I don't copyright it, then you can write a book called "The life of an orange" which pretty much talks about the exact same thing minus one little detail, and from a legal perspective, you didn't copy me because I didn't copyright it. Notice I'm talking about a finished work here. So if D.C doesn't copyright the idea of a "billionaire, playboy philanthropist" (A phrase coined by Marvel FYI) then technically speaking, Marvel's not copying them by publishing their own version of a "billionaire, playboy, philanthropist".

"But maybe you don't want/have the time to walk him/her, so you hire somebody to walk the dog for you. This is gonna sound kind of funny, but let's say Deathstroke is DC's dog. Marvel walks DC's dog, and on the way calls him Deadpool. Confusing, I know, but you understand, don't you?"

This makes no sense as it implies that D.C is giving the rights of Deathstroke to Marvel.
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by calculatedr1sk 3 years ago
calculatedr1sk
PatriotPersonJuris_NaturalisTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro made a strong case by pointing out 1) similarities of characters and 2) timing of when those characters appeared. In some cases, one character didn't just inspire another, it was outright copied (i.e. "Slade Wilson" and "Wade Wilson"). I didn't see an adequate response to this from Con, he seemed to attack a straw man instead by seeming to imply that DC would have to have legal ownership of an idea in order for it to even be copyable. I don't know where that even places the bar for the purposes of our resolution. Would a character named "Duece Lane" aka "The Battle Man" be a copy of batman if he was exactly the same in most parts of his life except he had an axe instead of a bat on his chest? Iron man is clearly inspired by batman, but he is a distinct character. "Influenced by" is all I can give there. But with Green Lantern and NOVA or Deathstroke and Deaddpool, the similarities are so strong that "copy" seems a fitting term.
Vote Placed by 1Historygenius 3 years ago
1Historygenius
PatriotPersonJuris_NaturalisTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Overall, Pro stated his case better and met his burden of proof. Con seemed to give counter arguments against arguments that weren't even given. Conduct to Pro because of the forfeit.