The Instigator
Comrade_Ulyanov
Pro (for)
Losing
5 Points
The Contender
Xie-Xijivuli
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

Marxism

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Xie-Xijivuli
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/25/2010 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 12,475 times Debate No: 11544
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (2)

 

Comrade_Ulyanov

Pro

I thank you, Xie-Xijivuli for debating today.
In the first round I will explain the basis of Marxism. The first round is the most general, for there is few things to debate on.
____________________________________
Marxism is a particular political philosophy, economic and sociological worldview based upon a materialist interpretation of history, a Marxist analysis of capitalism, a theory of social change, and an atheist view of human liberation derived from the work of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. The three primary aspects of Marxism are:

1. The dialectical and materialist concept of history — Humankind's history is fundamentally that of the struggle between social classes. The productive capacity of society is the foundation of society, and as this capacity increases over time the social relations of production, class relations, evolve through this struggle of the classes and pass through definite stages (primitive communism, slavery, feudalism, capitalism). The legal, political, ideological and other aspects (e.g. art) of society are derived from these production relations as is the consciousness of the individuals of which the society is composed.

2. The critique of capitalism — In capitalist society, an economic minority (the bourgeoisie) dominate and exploit the working class (proletariat) majority. Marx uncovered the interworkings of capitalist exploitation, the specific way in which unpaid labor (surplus value) is extracted from the working class (the labor theory of value), extending and critiquing the work of earlier political economists on value. Although the production process is socialized, ownership remains in the hand of the bourgeoisie. This forms the fundamental contradiction of capitalist society. Without the elimination of the fetter of the private ownership of the means of production, human society is unable to achieve further development.

3. Advocacy of proletarian revolution — In order to overcome the fetters of private property the working class must seize political power internationally through a social revolution and expropriate the capitalist classes around the world and place the productive capacities of society into collective ownership. Upon this, material foundation classes would be abolished and the material basis for all forms of inequality between humankind would dissolve.

Principal ideas
These are the principal concepts of Marxism:

Exploitation
A person is exploited if he or she performs more labour than necessary to produce the goods society consumes; likewise, a person is an exploiter if he or she performs less labour than is necessary to produce goods. Exploitation is a matter of surplus labor — the amount of labour one performs beyond what one receives in goods. Exploitation has been a socio-economic feature of every class society, and is one of the principal features distinguishing the social classes. The power of one social class to control the means of production enables its exploitation of the other classes.
In capitalism, the labor theory of value is the operative concern; the value of a commodity equals the total labour time required to produce it. Under that condition, surplus value (the difference between the value produced and the value received by a labourer) is synonymous with the term "surplus labour"; thus, capitalist exploitation is realized as deriving surplus value from the worker.
In pre-capitalist economies, exploitation of the worker was achieved via physical coercion. In the capitalist mode of production, that result is more subtly achieved; because the worker does not own the means of production, he or she must voluntarily enter into an exploitive work relationship with a capitalist in order to earn the necessities of life. The worker's entry into such employment is voluntary in that he or she chooses which capitalist to work for; the worker must work or starve, thus exploitation is inevitable, and the voluntarism of capitalist exploitation is illusory.

Alienation
Alienation denotes the estrangement of people from their humanity (German: Gattungswesen, "species-essence", "species-being"), which is a systematic result of capitalism. Under capitalism, the fruits of production belong to the employers, who expropriate the surplus created by others, and so generate alienated labourers.[7] Alienation objectively describes the worker's situation in capitalism — his or her self-awareness of this condition is unnecessary.

Historical Materialism
The historical materialist theory of history, also synonymous to "the economic interpretation of history" (a coinage by Eduard Bernstein), looks for the causes of societal development and change in the collective ways humans use to make the means for living. The social features of a society (social classes, political structures, ideologies) derive from economic activity; "base and superstructure" is the metaphoric common term describing this historic condition.

Base and superstructure
The base and superstructure metaphor explains that the totality of social relations regarding "the social production of their existence" i.e. civil society forms a society's economic base, from which rises a superstructure of political and legal institutions i.e. political society. The base corresponds to the social consciousness (politics, religion, philosophy, etc.), and it conditions the superstructure and the social consciousness. A conflict between the development of material productive forces and the relations of production provokes social revolutions, thus, the resultant changes to the economic base will lead to the transformation of the superstructure. This relationship is reflexive; the base determines the superstructure, in the first instance, and remains the foundation of a form of social organization which then can act again upon both parts of the base and superstructure, whose relationship is dialectical, not literal.[1]

Marxism: The system of economic and political thought developed by Karl Marx, along with Friedrich Engels, esp. the doctrine that the state throughout history has been a device for the exploitation of the masses by a dominant class, that class struggle has been the main agency of historical change, and that the capitalist system, containing from the first the seeds of its own decay, will inevitably, after the period of the dictatorship of the proletariat, be superseded by a socialist order and a classless society.[2]

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2]http://dictionary.reference.com...
Xie-Xijivuli

Con

I accept the challenge and I hope this will be a fun and productive debate. I'd just like to remind my opponent, since he is a little new, that as the challenger/PRO he needs to argue for the effectiveness of his topic, in this case, Marxism.
Debate Round No. 1
Comrade_Ulyanov

Pro

I thank you, Xie-Xijivuli for debating today.
In the first round I will explain the basis of Marxism. The first round is the most general, for there is few things to debate on.
____________________________________
Marxism is considered one of the most major ideology of all time. But over the years, confusion has broke into Marx and Marxism due to edits and misconceptions of his Communist idea. It was edited many times. His works have been edited many times. Lenin was not the first to edit it. And not the last. And Communism has been edited so many times. Most people went from admiring the idea of change back in the 1910s and 1920s, until Stalin came into power. Communism today is mostly looked at, from the Western and parts of the Eastern world, as dictatorship. But truly, their thinking of Stalinism, and other forms like so. Most modern day Communist nations are dictatorships. This is to explain *True* Marxism.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
Marxism is a particular political philosophy, economic and sociological worldview based upon a materialist interpretation of history, a Marxist analysis of capitalism, a theory of social change, and an atheist view of human liberation derived from the work of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. The three primary aspects of Marxism are:

1. The dialectical and materialist concept of history — Humankind's history is fundamentally that of the struggle between social classes. The productive capacity of society is the foundation of society, and as this capacity increases over time the social relations of production, class relations, evolve through this struggle of the classes and pass through definite stages (primitive communism, slavery, feudalism, capitalism). The legal, political, ideological and other aspects (e.g. art) of society are derived from these production relations as is the consciousness of the individuals of which the society is composed.

2. The critique of capitalism — In capitalist society, an economic minority (the bourgeoisie) dominate and exploit the working class (proletariat) majority. Marx uncovered the interworkings of capitalist exploitation, the specific way in which unpaid labor (surplus value) is extracted from the working class (the labor theory of value), extending and critiquing the work of earlier political economists on value. Although the production process is socialized, ownership remains in the hand of the bourgeoisie. This forms the fundamental contradiction of capitalist society. Without the elimination of the fetter of the private ownership of the means of production, human society is unable to achieve further development.

3. Advocacy of proletarian revolution — In order to overcome the fetters of private property the working class must seize political power internationally through a social revolution and expropriate the capitalist classes around the world and place the productive capacities of society into collective ownership. Upon this, material foundation classes would be abolished and the material basis for all forms of inequality between humankind would dissolve.

Principal ideas
These are the principal concepts of Marxism:

Exploitation
A person is exploited if he or she performs more labour than necessary to produce the goods society consumes; likewise, a person is an exploiter if he or she performs less labour than is necessary to produce goods. Exploitation is a matter of surplus labor — the amount of labour one performs beyond what one receives in goods. Exploitation has been a socio-economic feature of every class society, and is one of the principal features distinguishing the social classes. The power of one social class to control the means of production enables its exploitation of the other classes.
In capitalism, the labor theory of value is the operative concern; the value of a commodity equals the total labour time required to produce it. Under that condition, surplus value (the difference between the value produced and the value received by a labourer) is synonymous with the term "surplus labour"; thus, capitalist exploitation is realized as deriving surplus value from the worker.
In pre-capitalist economies, exploitation of the worker was achieved via physical coercion. In the capitalist mode of production, that result is more subtly achieved; because the worker does not own the means of production, he or she must voluntarily enter into an exploitive work relationship with a capitalist in order to earn the necessities of life. The worker's entry into such employment is voluntary in that he or she chooses which capitalist to work for; the worker must work or starve, thus exploitation is inevitable, and the voluntarism of capitalist exploitation is illusory.

Alienation
Alienation denotes the estrangement of people from their humanity (German: Gattungswesen, "species-essence", "species-being"), which is a systematic result of capitalism. Under capitalism, the fruits of production belong to the employers, who expropriate the surplus created by others, and so generate alienated labourers.[7] Alienation objectively describes the worker's situation in capitalism — his or her self-awareness of this condition is unnecessary.

Historical Materialism
The historical materialist theory of history, also synonymous to "the economic interpretation of history" (a coinage by Eduard Bernstein), looks for the causes of societal development and change in the collective ways humans use to make the means for living. The social features of a society (social classes, political structures, ideologies) derive from economic activity; "base and superstructure" is the metaphoric common term describing this historic condition.

Base and superstructure
The base and superstructure metaphor explains that the totality of social relations regarding "the social production of their existence" i.e. civil society forms a society's economic base, from which rises a superstructure of political and legal institutions i.e. political society. The base corresponds to the social consciousness (politics, religion, philosophy, etc.), and it conditions the superstructure and the social consciousness. A conflict between the development of material productive forces and the relations of production provokes social revolutions, thus, the resultant changes to the economic base will lead to the transformation of the superstructure. This relationship is reflexive; the base determines the superstructure, in the first instance, and remains the foundation of a form of social organization which then can act again upon both parts of the base and superstructure, whose relationship is dialectical, not literal.[1]

Marxism: The system of economic and political thought developed by Karl Marx, along with Friedrich Engels, esp. the doctrine that the state throughout history has been a device for the exploitation of the masses by a dominant class, that class struggle has been the main agency of historical change, and that the capitalist system, containing from the first the seeds of its own decay, will inevitably, after the period of the dictatorship of the proletariat, be superseded by a socialist order and a classless society.[2]

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2]http://dictionary.reference.com...
Xie-Xijivuli

Con

Since my opponent restated round 1, I will do the same...

I accept the challenge and I hope this will be a fun and productive debate. I'd just like to remind my opponent, since he is a little new, that as the challenger/PRO he needs to argue for the effectiveness of his topic, in this case, Marxism.
Debate Round No. 2
Comrade_Ulyanov

Pro

Comrade_Ulyanov forfeited this round.
Xie-Xijivuli

Con

So a Rabbi and a Priest walk into a bar...
Debate Round No. 3
Comrade_Ulyanov

Pro

Comrade_Ulyanov forfeited this round.
Xie-Xijivuli

Con

Xie-Xijivuli forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Comrade_Ulyanov 7 years ago
Comrade_Ulyanov
I did not have time to get on to post it..
Posted by belle 7 years ago
belle
repeatedly copy-pasting the wiki on marxism does not an argument make... :(
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Xie-Xijivuli 7 years ago
Xie-Xijivuli
Comrade_UlyanovXie-XijivuliTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Comrade_Ulyanov 7 years ago
Comrade_Ulyanov
Comrade_UlyanovXie-XijivuliTied
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Total points awarded:50