The Instigator
boom101
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
rajun
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points

Mathematics is not better than English.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
rajun
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/10/2013 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 18,848 times Debate No: 36534
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (13)
Votes (2)

 

boom101

Con

Well, being a math geek, I would love to prove the reasons for why math is better than English, and why we need math more than we need English. Also, may I just say that the actual debating should start in round two, also... no hard feelings, just a fun debate, like the others.
rajun

Pro

I agree to debate this topic, a fun debate from my side too.
Debate Round No. 1
boom101

Con

Okay, mathematics is better than English, don't believe me? That's okay, read some of my reasons.

Just imagine, you wake up, and life is without maths... wait! Sorry to ruin it for you, albeit, just think this, you wake up, your mum asks you, "How many pieces of toast would you like?", "uhh... mum, there is no maths, therefore I can't tell you", okay then, lets go before that, you are getting out of bed, right before you touch the floor, how many slippers do you have? Wait.. no counting, because no math. Now imagine life without English... wait! I can't speak English, but that's okay because I'll just speak a different language. See, some countries need more English than others but all countries need maths. What I'm trying to say is that life without mathematics is impossible, you can't stop counting, and well, that means you can't stop maths, and because of this math is better than English. Mathematics is also a subject that is older than English. People can't survive without maths, but people can survive without English, as there are non-English speaking people in this world. Therefore mathematics is better than English. What I'm trying to say here is that math is a fundamental subject in our everyday lives. Without math we would be no where. Without math, there won't be any English, just think about it, no math, life is zero, zero in fact is related to mathematics. Mathematics enables us to think logically.

Which brings me on my next point. Mathematics consists of two major types of reasonings. Deductive Reasoning and Inductive Reasoning. Well, for those who don't what what these two are, deductive reasoning is when a researcher works from the more general information to the more specific. For example: 'Every day, I leave for work in my car at eight o"clock. Every day, the drive to work takes 45 minutes I arrive to work on time. Therefore, if I leave for work at eight o"clock today, I will be on time.' This is a major way of how we think, now in mathematics it can be shown as:
2x - 1 = 9
2x = 10
therefore x = 5
now, this is an example of deductive reasoning. Inductive reasoning works the opposite way, moving from specific observations to broader generalizations and theories. An example of inductive reasoning can be seen in this set of statements: Today, I left for work at eight o"clock and I arrived on time. Therefore, every day that I leave the house at eight o"clock, I will arrive to work on time. This isn't necessarily right, but we use it everyday. In mathematics it can be shown as, say if you get an endless amount of questions, like the math one just above this, then you say, "okay, so, if I use this method to work it out, I will get the right answer." We use these kind of reasonings everyday, now, my point is that imagine if we didn't use these reasonings everyday, it would be impossible to live, but, if we didn't have English...? Mathematics is better than English, I mean, we need more math than English, as I proved to you with the last two reasons.

For a final point, mathematics is also a form of entertainment, as showed by this video, (please watch). In this video you see how in the warm up, he does a trick, using mathematics, he threw a paper ball at the cameraman, who then throws it to someone else, randomly, who picks a random number. Then Owen, does he's trick, as showed, showing mathematics as a form of entertainment, I don't think you can do this with English? Then Owen, uses advanced probability to estimate the answer to random questions to random strangers in the audience, and, in the end of the video he shows how he got the right answer, again, showing mathematics as a form of entertainment. Now, in this video, he didn't use 'magic', but probability, which allowed people to have another perspective of mathematics. I don't think English has the power to entertain us in this form, now does it?

https://www.youtube.com...

Now, to conclude with an ending reason, today's society needs mathematics, whether it is a 13 year old, like me, studying calculus, or a mathematician trying to prove a theorem wrong, or simply, using basic elementary school mathematics in order to do an everyday task, such as measurement. For us, to have an easy life ahead of us, we need to study mathematics, most jobs require this subject, yes, English is an important subject, but there are non-English speaking places in this world, they go on just fine, but without math, they're not going to get very far. Math is better than English for these reasons. We need math more than English, and we use math more than English.

Thank you. Also, apologies for any mistakes, as I was rushing and only spend 20 minutes on this, and well, because of that I may have made stupid errors.
rajun

Pro

The debate's topic is on the point that mathematics as a subject can't be better than english and as pro, I have to prove that either english is better than maths or english and mathematics are equally important as two different subjects.


Thank you, Con.

English is an universaly accepted language.

Now,If english wouldn't have been there in the world, the world wouldn't actually be a global village as it is now. Maths is not the subject that helps one to survive, but it is english. Yes, it is a point that every country is actually not a english speaking but even if many countries are, the countries that don't speak english will never develop if it doesn't have english as a medium and that's because english is the only universaly accepted language. In the field of science, why do you think there are scientific names of things?(a) And in which language are those names of? Some info, All the scientific names and terms are in english. All countries do not speak english, sure but the scientist and the managers of the country do. So, English is must. Maybe the country is actually not a englsih speaking one but if there is absolutely nobody knowing that language, development in that country is impossible. Think about it, which scientist doesn't know english and has come into international fame? Maths doesn't help one to survive but english in the english speaking countries do and also in the non-english speaking countries as it sustains development. Suppose a country has no one speaking english, so, no one can communicate with the top countries in this world(very practically). No support, No inventions, no economy, low healthcare,education is limited but yeah those people are excellent mathematicians...is that of any use? obviously not.In fact, that country will fail to develop and human's life there will be tough.


(a)http://www.scientificnames.org...

English is the medium.

What is necessary to be a scientist, engineer, doctor, politician,( all of these people are required for a country to run and survive)etc...mathematics or english? Suppose a scientist is actually needing mathematics to calculate but what use is it if he can't share it with the world and make use of that formula? Maybe it is that some formulas have made our lives better but many inventions are not related to maths but have used english as a medium to be shared and make the world a better place showing that english is better than maths. Could Socrates?Euclid?(old ones) or Michael Faraday(new one) have ever made the the world a better place if we had no english? NO. Englsih is the medium through which one communicates his thought with the world. An engineer might be able to figure out a problem using maths but what use is it when he can't share the solution to the ones in need as he can't speak the language that they do? English as I said is an universally accepted language and is more necessary than any subject.

English is a medium for sharing of great ideas that has helped the human race to survive.

Think about it...The glorius revolution initiated the idea of Democracy, English as a medium spread it to France,America and gradually to all of the world.(b,c) If someone in a tribal group inside some forest has a better form of government, how is he supposed to share it with the outer world? With the help of mathematics? Of course not! and isn't a idea such as that wasted??

(b)http://en.wikipedia.org...
(c)http://en.wikipedia.org...


Now, as for my opponents arguments.

"In this world, do not enter if you have to SURVIVE but do only if you want to LIVE."

" See, some countries need more English than others but all countries need maths."

I wholeheartedly support the statement that some countries are not english speaking but they need english as much as they need maths. As english is a medium of communication in the world, a universally accepted language. An example is Taiwan and why Taiwan? Lets talk about all the countries in Africa...What was Ghana's or Congo's situation before? and how are they now? and that is only because of external support from developed nations who could communicate with these nations with the language English. Could maths have made these countries what they are now? Of course not which proves that Yes, maybe all countries do need maths as a basic unit but also in the same manner, a country needs english to survive in this age.

" Mathematics is also a subject that is older than English. "

And how does that prove that Mathematics is a better subject than english? Also, could mathematcis have spread without any medium for all of the world to understand it? Of course not.


" We use these kind of reasonings everyday, now, my point is that imagine if we didn't use these reasonings everyday, it would be impossible to live, but, if we didn't have English...?"

If everyone in this world would have got good reasoning and could figure out everything, then this statemant would have been invincible but is it that way? think about it, Can every man reason and figure out every problem he faces and that too using mathematics? If such was the case, then probably we would have not required people like Stephen Hawkings or in a practical sense, people like Airmax or Roylatham to guide us even in this website!! Many people can't reason out anything and need help from others. This help if needs to come out of another country or clan of people, then a universal language is required...english is the choice here. Simple reasonings may not require help but the ones which help us learn,survive and more than survive to live, require english.


"For a final point, mathematics is also a form of entertainment"

And that is how mathematics is better as a subject? Now, do not tell me that all jokes in this world and all the entertainment is mathematics...english is a king as the medium of entertainment. That proves that english is a better than mathematics.

"Now, to conclude with an ending reason, today's society needs mathematics, For us, to have an easy life ahead of us, we need to study mathematics, most jobs require this subject, yes, English is an important subject, but there are non-English speaking places in this world, they go on just fine, but without math, they're not going to get very far. Math is better than English for these reasons. We need math more than English, and we use math more than English."

Today's society needs english as much as it needs mathematics. The managers of the zountry need to have foreign policies...to keep them developed with latest theories as well as keep peace and comaraderie among them. Without english no country will go fine...many jobs require maths as a theorotical subject but english is always required as a practical subject....

As conclusion, I will say that english and mathematics, both are required for human sustainance...both are equally required in today's society...one for day to day tasks while one for making the whole of the world a global village.
Debate Round No. 2
boom101

Con

Apologises Pro, albeit it is stated in both the comments and the topic sentence, that you are to prove that English is better than math, not the same.


And apologies, I forgot to add my bibliography for the last round.

1)http://sociology.about.com......
2)https://www.youtube.com......
3)https://www.youtube.com......
4)http://wiki.answers.com......
5)https://www.khanacademy.org......


Also the amount of spelling and grammatical errors in your previous piece, distracted me from the main perspective.

Anyhow, thank you Pro, I will now proceed with my reasons and rebuttal.


'English is a universally accepted language'


English may be a universally accepted language, albeit that doesn't mean that the world wouldn't be a global village without it. English is a mere way to communicate, we have developed other ways to communicate, or instead of English, another universal language, though mathematics is forever lasting, without maths, there is no physics, and we wouldn't be able to feed our thirst by answering our questions, and scientists would be unable to do what they do, because of no math. We are nothing without mathematics. Also, in regards to your, "All the scientific names and terms are in English', this is incorrect. There are many names that are from latin or greek, and in the periodic table 'sodium' the symbol isn't based on English but latin, there are actual words I can list, though that is unnecessary.

Also, in regard to your, "Suppose a country has no one speaking English, so, no one can communicate with the top countries in this world..." There are a variety of ways to communicate. If it is mathematics you completly focus on, then may I let you know, that it is possible to comprehend theories, and ideas without speaking English.

Let me tell you a funny story, once, Japan's Prime Minster Mori, who can't speak English had a meeting with Obama. He was given some basic English conversation training before he visited Washington to meet Barack Obama. The instructor told him, "when you shake hands with President Obama, please say 'how are you?'. Then Mr Obama should say, 'I am fine, and you?" Now, you should say 'Me too.' Afterwards, we translators will do the work for you.
But instead, when Obama met him Mori mistatakenly said, "Who are you?" (instead of "how are you?") Mr Obama jokingly said "Well, I'm Michelle's husband, haha" Mori replied, "Me too, haha"(1). This was humilating, but the president of Japan, cannot speak English, and yet he is the president of one of the most leading technology related countries, but every country needs maths.

'English is the medium', 'English is a medium for sharing great ideas that have helped the human race to survive'

Regarding these points of yours, Pro, I would like to refute by saying, there are millions of ways to communicate, we can communicate with animals without speaking English, (sometimes we speak English, or other languages), but if a talented scientist cannot speak English, that does not mean he won't be able to tell the world about he's ideas, he would share his great ideas with translators and possibly Youtube. This point of yours is simply false and inaccurate, considering how we have presidents of advanced countries unable to speak English, for example Japan, and yet, they would't have been able to advance their country with the 'pro' technology unless the engineers knew how to use mathematics, or unless the citizens didn't use the everyday reasonings they do. This proves how maths is more valuable then English. English is a mere way for communication around the world, which is also known as a business language, whereas everyone speaks maths, and uses it, whether an engineer, or everyday inductive and deductive reasoning. Also, may I just point out, wikipedia is an inaccurate source considering how you are able to change the information.

'If everyone in this world would have got good reasoning and could figure out something, then this statement would have been invincible but is it that way?'

I believe you don't understand how it is impossible to not use or have experience with inductive and deductive reasoning, we use it everyday without realising, from little kids who go to kindergarden to the old grannies, we use it, and these reasonings are under mathematics, at school when we study, we are given activites and assignments which increase our skills in these reasonings, and this mainly happens in mathematics, and not in any other suject, which is why they always say, "you need to learn mathematics for your everyday life when your older".

'Now, do not tell me that all the jokes in this world and all the entertainment is mathematics'

Con, I would ask you to elaborate on your points so others can possibly comprehend what you are trying to get across, of course mathematics is not the medium of entertainment. I mean what I am trying to say is that you can do magic with using probabilty, you can't do physical tricks, don't say 'you can communicate', i mean tricks, with English... entertainment is a major factor of our lives, maths can also entertain us, as well as help us live our lives, English isn't a must. Math is.

'The managers of the country need to have foreign policies... to keep them developed with the latest theories.."

Firstly, I think you mean to say, "to keep them updated with the latest theories"...
Secondly, like I said before, the president of Japan can't speak English, he still got whatever his point was across to Obama, America and Japan are close allies, and look, they can't speak the same language. This proves, we don't need English to make peace...

In conclusion, English can never be as important as mathematics, it is important, but it will never be as important as mathematics.

Thank you, again apologies for the mistakes, I only had 15 minutes to do this... so I was rushing.

Thank you Pro.



(1) http://www.snopes.com...

rajun

Pro

Thank you, Con for your arguments and rebuttal,

This is some bug. I am not able to type in Rich text or import things from MS word.

"English may be a universally accepted language, albeit that doesn't mean that the world wouldn't be a global village without it. English is a mere way to communicate, we have developed other ways to communicate, or instead of English, another universal language, though mathematics is forever lasting, without maths, there is no physics,"

English is the easiest language to learn and that is why it is a universally accepted language.(a)Without mathematics, there is no physics. That is a true statement but please note the fact that without english, there will be "Gonit" in India as Physics while something other in Bangladesh. So, the Indian physicist will believe that Earth is made up of 5 elements while Bangladesh's which might be more developed, will be knowing that there are atoms but discussions of such things will be minimum as english as a medium to communicate will be neil.

(a)http://mylanguages.org...

"Let me tell you a funny story, once, Japan's Prime Minster Mori, who can't speak English had a meeting with Obama. Afterwards, we TRANSLATORS will do the work for you. "

Translators...what does that mean? English is most required for universal talks. Could we have debated this topic without english? Maybe it is that even the president doesn't know english...does that prove that he knows any maths? Maybe not. Is it such that Japan has become a powerful country without any english? Of-course not!! Japan needs other resources which do not grow or are not found there...How will it negotiate? Speaking Japanese? Or english? and Also what did the president of Japan face when he failed to speak english? Humiliation...this leads to my next rebuttal/argument.

" they would't have been able to advance their country with the 'pro' technology unless the engineers knew how to use mathematics, or unless the citizens didn't use the everyday reasonings they do. from little kids who go to kindergarden to the old grannies, we use it, and these reasonings are under mathematics, at school when we study, we are given activites and assignments which increase our skills in these reasonings,"

Really? Ok! Suppose no one in a country knows english and only can think of mathematics. really, think about it! Do ideas like "democracy" or "youtube" come out of maths? Obviously not! So, how does that argument prove that mathematics is more important than English? Also, yes. We do use a lot of such reasoning but what my point is that, There are crores out there who cannot even tell the time or read the currency notes that they have earned because they do not understand what do those little figures in english mean...That says it. English is required as much as maths. Mathematics might be the root but english is the actual shoot and that is what is seen by the people, not the roots. Let me explain. Do we hang our certificates of merit around our necks so that people can understand that we are smart? No. What actually matters in this world not only to survive but to do more than that, to live, we need English. To express ourselves in an impressive way, english is must. How we use our diction is what matters if we prosper in life. School assignments are also Drama, Extempore etc..to improve our speaking skill.

...............................

"Don't enter this world if you want merely to survive but do so if you want to LIVE"

Maths is important, I agree. It is important for many things but english is equally important in this world if we want to do more than survive, if we want to LIVE!!
Debate Round No. 3
boom101

Con

Thank you Pro

I will proceed with my reasons and rebuttal.

May I just say mathematics is not just about theorems and formulas, I repeat, you use inductive and deductive reasoning everyday, and that is under mathematics, whether you are rich or poor. I believe you never comprehended this point, and I use deductive reasoning as I think you can't comprehend my reason because you consistently say something to go against what is now proved as a fact.

And speaking enables thoughts that are not decoded to occur... the medium for advancement, is thoughts, and when people have thoughts, to express them, they have to decode them, and be able to communicate, yes, using English, though mathematics is the root for thinking, when you think, not everything is maths, though most of it is, such as deductivfe and inductive reasoing, to science, to everything. We think then we communicate, and when we communicate we merely use English. Thus proving mathematics is better as it is the root, not English.

I agree speaking English gives you a high standard... like it used to ten years ago. Nowadays, in the first world, this is an expectation. Why is it that mathematics in public is considering more important English, because English is an expectation, and mathematics is a must. "To express ourselves in an impressive way..." you need to have something to express, the root, known as mathematics, you would have to use math in some point, some point, or else, it isn't really factual. And that is a fact.

Thank you.

Apologies, again for the mistakes, and the small work, as I have rushed through this debate.

rajun

Pro

Interesting last argument, Con.

" the medium for advancement, is thoughts, and when people have thoughts, to express them, they have to decode them, and be able to communicate, yes, using English, though mathematics is the root for thinking,"

Maths is the root of thinking? I am sorry to say that Con has not read all of my arguments. Do great thoughts of "democarcy" or the making of facebook have root in maths? In fact simple thoughts like " I want to buy this car" or "I think Lionel Messi is awesome!" never require mathematics...I see we do use a lot of inductive and deductive logic...think about it, do we require maths to do so? My granpa is a wise and logical man...He writes detective stories and that requires a lot of deductive skills. He easily answers riddles but to guess...he is illiterate...never went to school and does that mean he does mathematics a lot? no. He never touches that subject! He knows 1+1 =2 fine but maths is not his cup of tea..proving that 12 years of serious mathematics in one's life does not make a guy genious and increase his deductive skills...Maths is not the root of thinking...and decoding thoughts do not require maths!

"Why is it that mathematics in public is considering more important English, because English is an expectation, and mathematics is a must. "

Mathematics is very important in one's life but english is so too. Think about it, A pilot may require those digits that show the height or speed of the plane but what will he require for all of his life...during the admission test, during training, during talks with the radio controller? Urdu? No! English is the right answer. Maths is the elementary while englsih is the Prime! The expectation is what makes english a subject equally important in this world of todays..

I will repeat...Maths might be important and help us to survive but as the proverb in the previous argument says...english is what will always be the subject to help us not only to survive but LIVE!

Thank you,
Vote fairly...(sarcasm):-P
Debate Round No. 4
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by boom101 3 years ago
boom101
yeahy!
Posted by rajun 3 years ago
rajun
i see... :)
Posted by boom101 3 years ago
boom101
because... I like too...
Posted by rajun 3 years ago
rajun
and why do you always make the voting period so long?
Posted by rajun 3 years ago
rajun
links are so unreliable...wiki answers?....lol.
Posted by boom101 3 years ago
boom101
this is a really stupid debate... I can't believe I'm in it... oh God
Posted by boom101 3 years ago
boom101
I'm sorry I had to re-read your comment Sparks, in order to comprehend what you were trying to get across, be here at voting... oh, it's my turn, I have to post my arguments, enjoy this debate. :)
Posted by boom101 3 years ago
boom101
uh.. okay Sparks...

:)

very funny Pro...
Posted by sparks 3 years ago
sparks
No problem sorry if I was misunderstood I knew that you meant better I was simply clarifying that you gave your opponent the chance to argue that Maths is equal or worse than English to win the debate which is very generous of you. I think a debate on which is more important maths or language I would of enjoyed but which is better English or maths I'm not so sure about very difficult simply because it's more about personal preference than importance. Have fun all the same.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by D.Wolf 3 years ago
D.Wolf
boom101rajunTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro has a more convincing argument.
Vote Placed by donald.keller 3 years ago
donald.keller
boom101rajunTied
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Total points awarded:02 
Reasons for voting decision: S&G seemed reasonable on both sides until R4 on Con's half. Con and Pro both argued and rebutted equally well. While Con gave more sources. he used a lot of Youtube, and Wikihow sources. I take away Conduct from Con after R2's opening, but mostly because of his phrase in R4... "I believe you never comprehended this point, and I use deductive reasoning as I think you can't comprehend my reason"