The Instigator
bthr004
Pro (for)
Losing
16 Points
The Contender
Extempjordan
Con (against)
Winning
19 Points

Meat and Dairy animal production and consumption is necessary.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/28/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,646 times Debate No: 4255
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (9)

 

bthr004

Pro

Meat and Dairy animals have been domesticated since the beginning of time. The planets eco-system could not survive if the highly reproductive meat and dairy animals were not managed and controlled.

The facts are that sound practices are implemented in livestock agriculture to insure the health and productivity of the animals that products created by them. The BEEF checkoff program for instance trains and promotes and offers premiums to producers that incorporate sound practices such as safe sweeping gate and fences, vaccinations only applied in the neck muscle to prevent pain and damage just to name a few.

The earth could not produce enough plant and plant products to support 100% human and meat animal vegetarianism. I will provide several accurate facts to back these points further in the next rounds.
Extempjordan

Con

First I would like to thank the author of this and is a thankfully debatable topic. I will not be debating in the policy debate format, for it is outside of my expertise.

First off there you need to establish, well people are not being fed as it is around the world. In select parts of the world outside of the U.S many a country have no money for dairy or meat. Often these are confused as western luxuries. If not eating meat or dairy were to be pressured into looked down as a socially unacceptable morale this could lead to the change itself.

Next the food that is used to feed these livestock could feed 1.4 billion humans. Now there still is the argument that there will not be enough food to feed humanity. Well there is roughly 6 billion people on the world today. The simple truth behind this is that neither side gives a solution to ending world hunger. But going green would substantially slow down this process as I end with a quote from Russel Simmons, entrepreneur and philanthropist- " It takes 16 pounds of grain to produce one pound of meat. If we just ate grain and left the animals alone we could feed the world and stop starvation" in addition to this it also takes 5,000 gallons of water.

Outside of this a large amount of soil, trees, rain forest land is used to create land for pastures. Ending this usage of meat and dairy products could substantially promote the go green idea. This evidence is shown in my selfempowermentacademy.com source below providing a substantially self explained argument on how it will save energy, lower excretion pollution, and how these animals are often given better treatment than many humans themselves. Would be nice to trade a cow life for a humans, would it not?

(http://www.meatstinks.com...)
(http://www.selfempowermentacademy.com.au...)
Debate Round No. 1
bthr004

Pro

Your rescources quoted are backed by agenda and not facts.

Cattle and calves on feed for slaughter market in the United States for feedlots with capacity of 1,000 or more head totaled 11.1 million head on May 1, 2008. The inventory was 1 percent below May 1, 2007 and 4 percent below May 1, 2006.
>>>>www.agweb.com

This an exact correlation with increase price for corn. Up from $1.25 per bushel in 2006 to $6.02 a bushel today. The reason for the decrease in cattle on feed, and I only included the statistics of the larger feeders, is simple business 101,..
Cut your bottom line if its taking money out the top.

Producers are feeding less or no cattle or not even producing cattle, simply because they can not afford the high feed cost. Econimics shows decreases so why would they, if they were,be clearing MORE land for "pasture."

Humans are not competing against food animals for grains, if anything they are competing against the Ethanol boom, already taking nearly 20% of the corn grown, AND with current govt. mandates requiring a ten year goal of 15% bio fuel consumption rate, which converts to 40% of the WORLDS corn grown and 100% of the United States corn grown.
>>>www1.umn.edu

Most cattle on feed right now, such as my own, are bieng fed distillers grain, a by-product of ethanol, and ground fodder, the dried leaf and stalks left from the plant that produced the ears of corn.

Russel Simmons is probably not the most credible person to quote from if you want to know about production agriculture, for instance the rule of thumb in cattle feeding is approx. 5-7 lbs of feed stuffs, mollases, roled grains, grasses, supplements, etc, for one pound of added gain, a gain that would be satisfied whether man provided the feed or the animal foraged itself.
>>>www.plantmanagementnetwork.org

As for the deforestation of land for livestock farming, again just not correct. The overwhelming demand for soybeans has caused the massive deforestation of Brazilian rainforest,(60 million acres since 1978,) in order to clear more land for crops, not animals. Therefore vegetarianism and fuel demand is more to blame.
>>>www.npr.org

Gross overpopulation would exist if the food animals were to just be "free." Our earth could not sustain the amount of life and produce the amount of food or land needed, humans would suddenly be COMPETING for food rather than producing it.

What societies can not afford meat or dairy? Give me society or country that doesn't domesticate food animals. You did not supply any specific place. Not all meat or dairy is purchased, several nomadic groups of people in Africa, for instance follow large herds of Waygu cross cattle, which provides them all there food, fiber, and even hides dried and stretched for shelter.

I will save the rest of the FACTS for later, give you time to maybe reseach some "credible" sources.
Extempjordan

Con

Would you like to elaborate on credibility? The first sentance in my selfempowerment website comes from the book Natures first law- The raw food diet.

Now I can agree with the fact some sources may be outdated and I take responsibility for that. I was not aware I was auctully to be debating someone who really debates. I am not going to be able to continue debate on this for personal reasons so I give the debate to you.
Debate Round No. 2
bthr004

Pro

I said your resoures such as www.selfempowermentacademy.com, and www.meatstinks.com are obviously backed by an agenda, and not factual evidence based on research, statisics, etc.

I really did not even NEED to go on www.meatstinks.com to come to the suspiscion that the sites creator(s) and/or contributors believed meat stunk.

The equivilent of myself going saying vegetables are gross because the people at Ireallyhatevegetables.com said that it is gross. However, they could not provide substantial evidence to why, how, or even the flavor of the vegetable, perhaps because they had not tasted them for themselves, or perhaps, concluded they were gross, only after preparing them incorrectly, and blaming the vegetable on the unwelcoming taste. Perhaps someone farted on vegetable when they were not looking.

I would like to explain my belief on why domesticated animals would destroy the world if we did not manage them, or consume them.

Say the avergage life span of a cow is 10 years. a cow will calve once every 365 days. so if one cow produces 10 calves in a decade (not including twins) and we turn lose or "free" and no longer control the 1.2 billion hd of cows currently on earth. That would roughly be 24 billion head of cattle by 2018. it takes 2.5 acres of grass to sustain a cow unit(cow/calf/bull) 24 bill X 2.5 acres=60 bill. acres to sustain JUST CATTLE in 10 yrs if we didnt kill. ruining the eco-system, making it necessary.
Extempjordan

Con

Extempjordan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Wildrosebeef 4 years ago
Wildrosebeef
I think there could've been a lot more to this than what as initiated. It's really too bad that the Con had biased sources and not ones that were unbiased. A lot of the arguments posted here are what have been mentioned before, pretty well old news from what I've heard. But the pro could've been more specific too, since the title (and even the opening statements) were a little too general. Hopefully another debate similar to this comes up where the cases made would be a bit more specific and detailed.
Posted by Mogget 9 years ago
Mogget
Clarify something for me. Do you mean animals being consumed by humans or do you mean just animals being consumed in general?
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