The Instigator
Stupidape
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
twentyseven
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Meat, dairy, and eggs should be banned worldwide.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/13/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 542 times Debate No: 82512
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

Stupidape

Pro

Resolution: Meat, dairy, and eggs should be banned worldwide.

This is a normative resolution.

I Pro will contend for the resolution.
Con will contend against the resolution.

Meat " the flesh of an animal used as food" [1]

Dairy "Full Definition of DAIRY
1
: a room, building, or establishment where milk is kept and butter or cheese is made
2
a : the department of farming or of a farm that is concerned with the production of milk, butter, and cheese
b : a farm devoted to such production
3
: an establishment for the sale or distribution chiefly of milk and milk products "[2]

Eggs " the egg of a bird (especially a chicken) eaten as food"[3]

Ban "

: to forbid people from using (something) : to say that something cannot be used or done

: to forbid (someone) from doing or being part of something
"[4]

Thank you for taking the time to read this debate.

Links
1. http://www.merriam-webster.com...
2. http://www.merriam-webster.com...
3. http://www.merriam-webster.com...
4. http://www.merriam-webster.com...
twentyseven

Con

Why do you believe dairy,meat,and eggs should be banned?
Debate Round No. 1
Stupidape

Pro

Outline

I. Animal cruelty
A. Establishing sentience.
B. Suffering exists from egg, meat, and milk production.
C. Buying these products causes suffering.
D. Not necessary for survival to eat these foods.
E. Animal cruelty to eat these foods.

II. Health
A. Possible to be a healthy vegan.
B. Detrimental affects of consuming animal products.

III. Environment
A. Trophic levels
B. Amazon and ocean destruction.
IV. Summary
V. Links

I. Animal cruelty

A. Establishing sentience

Without sentience animals are no different than trees. Alive, but unable to feel pain nor suffer. Therefore establishing sentience is of utmost importance. "Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Non-human animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures, including octopuses, also possess these neurological substrates."" [5].

"Fish Are Sentient and Emotional Beings and Clearly Feel Pain" [6]

"So some fish like massages. Most probably feel pain. Many have good eyesight, a great sense of smell, well-developed hearing abilities, and the ability to both create and detect electric currents in the water." [7]

I have now clearly established that animals are sentient and have the capacity to feel pain and suffer. I'm confident I covered all the animals that are normally eaten in 1st world countries. Mammals, birds, and fish.

B. Suffering exists from egg, meat, and milk production.

Look no further than factory farming. Factory farming constitutes over 99% of farm animals. "A factory farm is a large, industrial operation that raises large numbers of animals for food. Over 99% of farm animals in the U.S. are raised in factory farms, which focus on profit and efficiency at the expense of animal welfare."[8] The cruelty of factory farming is common knowledge. The burden of proof lies on Con to disprove factory farming cruelty.

As for small scale local farmers. The trend of several small farms becoming one large farm exists. Watch King Corn as proof. [9]. That being said measures for animal welfare and humane treatment have failed.

"For example, an animal farmer named Joel Salatin, famous for slaughtering chickens in the movie Food, Inc., recently said in the media that he is in the "healing industry" and called his farm a "sanctuary". Contributing to this confusion, some animal protection organizations now use romanticized imagery of animals on bucolic "humane" farms which can easily give the public the impression that voting for a given legislative initiative or purchasing the "right" kind of animal products will lead to a life for exploited animals not much different than that at a sanctuary. Many of us working in animal advocacy feel that this trend is disastrous, and represents an ongoing victory for the meat industry in its effort to co-opt animal advocacy by steadily shifting the public dialogue away from whether or not it is right to use and kill animals to what is the right way to use and kill animals. "[10]

The only logical recourse to end animal suffering is to ban all animal food sources. Ban meat, dairy, and eggs.

C. Buying these products causes suffering.

This is simple supply and demand. If nobody bought any of these products, production would grind to a halt almost immediately. The reverse is true. If demand suddenly doubled, supply would follow suit.

D. Not necessary for survival to eat these foods.

B12, protein, calcium, and omega-3s can all be ingested from plant sources. B-12 comes from bacteria. Protein is found in small amounts or greater in just about every food. Legumes have lots of protein. Calcium is found in leafy greens. Omega-3s are divided into three categories. ALA, DHA, and EPA. ALA is found in flax seeds. DHA in seaweed. EPA in microalgae.

"Microorganisms are the only natural sources of B(12)-derivatives" [11].

Kidney beans have 8g of protein and only 53 calories per cup. Also of note kidney beans contain some calcium.[12]

Kale has 9% of your calcium needs and is only 33 calories per serving. [13].

"Flaxseed is an alternative to marine products. It is one of the richest sources of the plant-based `9;-3 fatty acid, alpha-linolenic acid (ALA)." [14].

"Vegetarian sources of DHA come from seaweed." [15].

"considering microalgae oil as a vegetarian source of EPA and DHA." [16].

It should be clear that a person can meet his or her nutritional needs on a vegan diet. Thus it is not necessary to eat animal products to live.

E. Animal cruelty to buy these foods.

Since self-survival can no longer be used as an excuse, I now contend that purchasing animal products causes animal cruelty.

II. Health
A. Possible to be a healthy vegan.

As seen above its possible to survive as a vegan. Not only that but you can thrive. There are many healthy vegan celebrities this is common knowledge.

B. Detrimental affects of consuming animal products.

Pro could make this section very long. Suffice to say its common knowledge that cholesterol, fat, and saturated fat exist in animal products and are unhealthy. Since this is common knowledge the burden of proof rests on Con to prove animal products are healthy.

III. Environment

A. Trophic levels

"Three hundred trout are needed to support one man for a year. The trout, in turn, must consume 90,000 frogs, that must consume 27 million grasshoppers that live off of 1,000 tons of grass.

-- G. Tyler Miller, Jr., American Chemist (1971)" [17].
This quote illustrates the waste and indulgence of eating higher on the food chain. Instead we should strive to eat lower on the food chain.

B. Amazon and ocean destruction

Large areas of land are required for free roaming grass fed beef. "The cattle sector in the Brazilian Amazon is the largest driver of deforestation in the world, responsible for one in every eight hectares destroyed globally. Efforts to halt global deforestation emissions must tackle this sector. " [18]. Fishing practices such as dynamite fishing are destructive to ocean habitat. "Many fishing practices are extremely destructive to delicate habitats - particularly vital fish breeding grounds like coral reefs and seagrass meadows." [19].

IV. Summary

Pro has provided a multitude of reasons to eat vegan and to ban consumption of animal products. Remember the USA pledge "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." [20]. Let liberty and justice extend to animals. Ban eggs, meat, and dairy. Vote Pro.

V. Links


5. http://www.livescience.com...
6. https://www.psychologytoday.com...
7. http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
8. http://www.aspca.org...
9. http://www.kingcorn.net...
10. http://www.humanemyth.org...
11. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
12. http://nutritiondata.self.com...
13. http://nutritiondata.self.com...
14. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
15. http://umm.edu...
16. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
17. http://www.globalchange.umich.edu...
18. http://www.greenpeace.org...
19. http://wwf.panda.org...
20. http://www.heritage.org...
twentyseven

Con

1 A. i do mostly agree,but i don't believe animals are equal to humans.God said we are to rule over the animals and they are food for us.Animals shouldn't be neglected or killed in a painful way but they are not humans and shouldn't be treated as humans. 1 B. I agree that factory farming is wrong and should not be allowed.My solution is to raise animals outside in fenced enclosures that cover many acres.They would be outside in their native environment and would live like they would if they was in the wild. People would care for the animals and they would be slaughtered in a humane way. This way animals would. live happy and healthy lives,and humans would get the food we need. 1 C Would. not be causing suffering if raised in the way stated above. 1. D. first off I believe it's our right to eat meat and dairy products.YIt would be very hard for most people to survive on just a vegetarian diet.Lack of nutrients would cause people to get malnutrition and diseases caused by malnutritionment would be a crisis. 1. E disagrees. 2 A. Would be hard for everyone to eat this way. 2. B. Cholesterol,and fat is not unhealthy if not over eaten. 3 A. Its called the food cycle,nothing to worry about. 3. B. what about all the acres of forest that will have to be cut down for fields of crops? It would do more harm to the environment if we destroy the environment by making more room for crops to grow.
Debate Round No. 2
Stupidape

Pro

Outline
I. Summary of Con's argument.
II. Rebuttal of Con's argument
III. Summary
IV. Links

I. Summary of Con's argument

First, Con only uses one large paragraph. Making it harder to decipher Con's argument. Second, rather than spell out Pro's outline, Con uses shorthand. 1 A. as opposed to 1 A. Establishing sentience. Third, Con has yet to use any outside sources. Forth Con relies upon religion to justify eating of meat, eggs, and dairy without revealing which religion Con is using. Fifth, there are many bare assertions in Con's argument.

II. Rebuttal of Con's argument

"1 A. i do mostly agree,but i don't believe animals are equal to humans.God said we are to rule over the animals and they are food for us.Animals shouldn't be neglected or killed in a painful way but they are not humans and shouldn't be treated as humans. " Con

Which religion do you refer to? I assume since you mean Hinduism because that was the first religion that came into my head. " What is Hinduism?

Hinduism is the world's oldest extant religion, with a billion followers, which makes it the world's third largest religion." [21].

"1 B. I agree that factory farming is wrong and should not be allowed." Con

Agreed.

"My solution is to raise animals outside in fenced enclosures that cover many acres.They would be outside in their native environment and would live like they would if they was in the wild. People would care for the animals and they would be slaughtered in a humane way. This way animals would. live happy and healthy lives,and humans would get the food we need." Con

Disagree, there are many cruel practices involved in even small scale farming. Watch the Happy Cow slideshow from humane myth if you disbelieve this claim. [22.] Even small farms have cruel practices and animal suffering is present thus, all meat, eggs, and dairy should be banned, including small organic farms.

Remember the profit motive is at work, it would be much cheaper to use a useless label like "humane" and then use inhumane practices. The temptation would always be present.

As for the food we need, we can get plenty from vegan sources as shown in the previous round. In fact vegan food is more sustainable. "Meat is less efficient because we eat the animal that eats the grain instead of eating the grain ourselves. It takes about 15 pounds of feed to make 1 pound of beef, 6 pounds of feed for 1 pound of pork and 5 pounds of feed for 1 pound of chicken, the Department of Agriculture estimates. For catfish, it's about 2 pounds of feed per pound of fish." [23].

Its common knowledge that starvation and world hunger are a problem. By continuing to eat meat you are putting an unnecessary demand on the world's resources. Thus, helping to cause people to starve to death. Human blood is on the meat eater's hands.

"A child starves to death every 2 seconds. 40,000 people starve to death every day while their governments ship grain to the U.S. to feed pigs, cows and chickens so that we may satisfy our desire for flesh, milk and eggs.

If everyone in the world ate like people in the U.S. do, only 2.5 billion people could be sustained. The current world population is 6.3 billion and is expected to be over 9 billion by 2050. If everyone ate a Vegan diet, at least 20 billion people could be sustained. " [24].

"1 C Would. not be causing suffering if raised in the way stated above."

Disagree. Humans haven't found a way to execute other humans reliably without pain. Pro contends there is no reliable way to kill a sentient being without causing suffering.

"In the USA, a number of lethal injection executions have been botched. Some executions have lasted between 20 minutes to over an hour and prisoners have been seen gasping for air, grimacing and convulsing during executions. Autopsies have shown severe, foot long chemical burns to the skin and needles have been found in soft tissue."[25.]

"1. D. first off I believe it's our right to eat meat and dairy products." Con

You seem to be one of these three religions, Judaism, Christianity, or Islamic. Although under those religions a follower has the right to eat meat and dairy products, you don't have the right to be Greedy, one of the seven deadly sins. You also are bound by the ten commandments. The sixth commandment is "thou shall not kill." By counting to eat animal flesh you are taking more than your share due, thus greed.

Not only that but you are killing other human beings. Killing other humans via air pollution, global climate change, and out competing starving 3rd world country people for grain. The grain is given to feed animals raised in factory farms as opposed to feeding hungry humans, as seen in link [24]. Thus, breaking the sixth commandment.

Note, Pro is not a biblical scholar, so Pro doesn't know the parameters of the sixth commandment. Still, its probably not a good idea to kill other human beings, even if accidental.

"YIt would be very hard for most people to survive on just a vegetarian diet.Lack of nutrients would cause people to get malnutrition and diseases caused by malnutritionment would be a crisis." Con

Pro already proved a person can be healthy as a vegan and receive enough nutrients in round 2 1 D. Not necessary for survival to eat these foods. Furthermore, if everyone was forced to be a vegan it would be a lot easier. Since people could share tips and give moral support.

"1. E disagrees." Con

No back up this claim, Pro provides evidences to the contrary.

"2 A. Would be hard for everyone to eat this way." Con

Bare assertion.

"2. B. Cholesterol,and fat is not unhealthy if not over eaten." Con

True, but Con fails to define the parameters of how much can be eaten before too much.

"3 A. Its called the food cycle,nothing to worry about. " Con

Pro begs to differ. By continually eating meat a person is practicing greed and gluttony.

" what about all the acres of forest that will have to be cut down for fields of crops?" Con

Meat production takes copious amounts of grain and grain fields. These grain fields could be used to feed the hungry.

"It would do more harm to the environment if we destroy the environment by making more room for crops to grow." Con

Less crops would be needed. As shown above.

III. Summary

Pro's argument stands, Pro has defeated every argument Con has made. Meat, dairy, and eggs should be banned worldwide. Save the planet, save the animals, feed starving people by giving up meat today. Vote Pro.

IV. Links

21. http://hinduism.about.com...
22. http://humanemyth.org...
23. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com...
24. http://www.animalliberationfront.com...
25. http://www.amnestyusa.org...
twentyseven

Con

Rebuttal of Pro's argument. 1. Pro assumed I was talking about Hinduism,when I was actually talking about Christianity.One of the Bible verses I.was referring to is Genesis 9:3 it says "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you"... 2. Pro has said that in even small scale farming theres cruelty. Con's response is that if you believe there is some cruelty in the way they do things,then you should try to ban some of the ways they do things.so then the farmers would have to farm in a humane way.Instead of banning all meat and dairy products. 3. pro says there is no way to kill a animal without causing suffering. I Con disagrees. There are many humane ways to kill a animal. Example 1 filling a room with co2 then put the animals in they pass out without pain.Example 2 Shooting a animal in the head causes instant death and no pain,Example 3 Beheading is a a good way to kill chickens,it causes instant death. 4. Pro says people who eat meat are disobeying the sixth commandment and are being greedy. I Con disagrees. First off eating meat. is not breaking the sixth commandment because when God says thou shalt not kill he was only talking about humans and not animals....I con believes it is not greedy to eat meat,only if you overeat. People who I consider to overeat are obsese people with a bmi of 30 or higher and not average people. 5. Pro says we are killing people by air pollution,global climate change,and are out competing 3rd world countries by giving grain to livestock and not starving people. I Con disagrees Pro does not have evidence for his listed claims. 6. I Con stated in round 2 that it would be very hard for most people to live on just a vegetarian diet,and it would cause malnutrition.Pro disagreed But I Con will stand by my statement. 7. Pro says that being vegetarian would help the environment ,I Con thinks that it would have little or no change on the environment. Feeding 7 billion people a vegetarian diet would cause just as much harm to the environment as it does to raise grain for the livestock to eat. I think pro's arguments are weak and illogical..
Debate Round No. 3
Stupidape

Pro

"Rebuttal of Pro's argument. 1. Pro assumed I was talking about Hinduism,when I was actually talking about Christianity.One of the Bible verses I.was referring to is Genesis 9:3 it says "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you"... " Con

Pro has tricked Con into revealing his or her ideology. Pro figured it was easier to argue about one religion as opposed to every religion in the same post.

" 2. Pro has said that in even small scale farming theres cruelty. Con's response is that if you believe there is some cruelty in the way they do things,then you should try to ban some of the ways they do things.so then the farmers would have to farm in a humane way.Instead of banning all meat and dairy products." Con

Pro contends that these foods have other problems other than animal cruelty.

"3. pro says there is no way to kill a animal without causing suffering. I Con disagrees. There are many humane ways to kill a animal. Example 1 filling a room with co2 then put the animals in they pass out without pain.Example 2 Shooting a animal in the head causes instant death and no pain,Example 3 Beheading is a a good way to kill chickens,it causes instant death." Con

Animals are sentient as explained in round 2 Pro's argument. If humans haven't found a way to execute another human painlessly and reliably then it must be impossible for an animal. If co2 runs the risk of accidentally killing the executioner. Shooting may not kill the animal with one shot. Same with example number three.

"4. Pro says people who eat meat are disobeying the sixth commandment and are being greedy. I Con disagrees. First off eating meat. is not breaking the sixth commandment because when God says thou shalt not kill he was only talking about humans and not animals" Con

True, about the sixth commandment and animals. Pro wasn't referencing killing of animals and the sixth commandment. Common definition of greed ": a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed " [26]. Now to see if the biblical version of greed matches the common. "Psalm 37:21 " "The wicked borrows and does not pay back, but the righteous is generous and gives."" [27.]

Seems that the definitions match up. By continuing to eat meat pound after pound, day after day, you are taking more than your fair share. You are taking more than is needed. Pro asserts that eating meat routinely is practicing greed.

"I con believes it is not greedy to eat meat,only if you overeat" Con

Pro thinks eating meat within itself is overeating. Since more grain is needed to feed a person on meat than on grain.

" People who I consider to overeat are obsese people with a bmi of 30 or higher and not average people." Con

Small children are often obese who have little control over their lives. Certain illnesses help cause obesity.

"5. Pro says we are killing people by air pollution,global climate change,and are out competing 3rd world countries by giving grain to livestock and not starving people. I Con disagrees Pro does not have evidence for his listed claims." Con

Pro thought air pollution and global climate change were common knowledge. The out completing 3rd world countries claim was backed up by the quote from the animalliberationfront. [24]. Con criticizes Pro for lack of evidence yet, Con has no outside sources.

Air pollution kills millions of people each year. "Pollution Killed 7 Million People Worldwide in 2012, Report Finds" [28].

There is substantial evidence that global climate change exists. [29]. What do you think will happen when the ocean waters rise? Deaths will surely follow, and you will be partly to blame if you are greedy by eating meat.

As for gluttony, gluttony is linked with pleasure seeking. "We enter into Gluttony when we demand more pleasure from something than it was made for."[30]. Seems to me most people eat meat out of pleasure seeking as opposed to substance. There is so many choices in the 1st world. There is no logical reason to eat meat.

" 6. I Con stated in round 2 that it would be very hard for most people to live on just a vegetarian diet,and it would cause malnutrition.Pro disagreed But I Con will stand by my statement." Con

Con, have you ever heard of 7th day Adventist? "A new study averaged the mood swings of 60 vegetarian Seventh-Day Adventists and 78 meat-eating Adventists. Each participant took a 30 minute survey, listing some meals and ranking their moods from the previous week." [31]. 7th day Adventists are renowned for their vegetarian lifestyle and good health.

"7. Pro says that being vegetarian would help the environment ,I Con thinks that it would have little or no change on the environment." Con

Pro provides evidence, Con does not.

"Feeding 7 billion people a vegetarian diet would cause just as much harm to the environment as it does to raise grain for the livestock to eat. " Con

The evidence Pro has supplied does not support Con's claim. Con provides no evidence.

"I think pro's arguments are weak and illogical.." Con

Con can make broad unsubstantiated claims all he or she wants. How is Pro's arguments weak and illogical be specific? Thanks for the debate. Meat, dairy, and eggs should be banned worldwide because Pro provides evidence and Con does not.

Links
26. http://www.merriam-webster.com...
27. http://www.christianpost.com...
28. http://www.nytimes.com...
29. http://www.takepart.com...
30. http://www.holyspiritinteractive.net...
31. http://letthemeatmeat.com...
twentyseven

Con

Pro says that eating meat and dairy products is wrong because we can live on a vegan diet..I Con disagrees. Con believes eating vegan is not healthy.For example a study stated that 83% of vegans are b12 deficient..And this can cause many problems including. amenia,neurological and psychotic problems,and fatigue...Here's the linkhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov... There are lots of studies that say vegans have deficiencies for many nutrients. I'm out of time,will be back for round 5.
Debate Round No. 4
Stupidape

Pro

Looking at Con's link.

"The study cohort included 66 lactovegetarians or lactoovovegetarians (LV-LOV group), 29 vegans, and 79 omnivores. Total vitamin B-12, methylmalonic acid, holotranscobalamin II, and total homocysteine concentrations were assayed in serum." [32].

The sample size is relatively small. Compare the total sample size of about 200 to the nurses' health study which has a sample size of 238,000. "Started in 1976 and expanded in 1989, the information provided by the 238,000 dedicated nurse-participants" [33].

Its is possible to eat an unhealthy vegan diet. You could have a vegan diet of all doughnuts, high fructose corn syrup soda, and beer. People mess up all the time and make mistakes. Just because there are vegans out there who make mistakes, doesn't mean all vegans are b-12 deficient.

B-12 can be gained from supplements. Also, b12 comes from bacteria "Synthesized only by prokaryotic organisms, vitamin B12 or cobalamin (CBL) is an essential cofactor for several important enzymes" [34].

Claim: Meat eaters can also have b-12 deficiency.

Warrant:"Causes of Vitamin B12 Deficiency

Vitamin B12 deficiency can happen if you have certain conditions, such as:

Atrophic gastritis, in which your stomach lining has thinned
Pernicious anemia, which makes it hard for your body to absorb vitamin B12
Surgery that removed part of your stomach or small intestine, including weight loss surgery
Conditions affecting the small intestine, such as Crohn's disease, celiac disease, bacterial growth, or a parasite
Heavy drinking
Immune system disorders, such as Graves' disease or lupus
Long-term use of acid-reducing drugs. Stomach acids help break down animal proteins that have vitamin B12.
"[35].

Impact: Vegetarians and vegans are not alone in b-12 deficiency. Thus weakening Con's case against vegan.

Vote Pro, Con has not make a solid case and only used one outside source thus far. Meat, dairy, and eggs should be banned worldwide.

Links
32. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
33. http://www.channing.harvard.edu...
34. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
35. http://www.webmd.com...
twentyseven

Con

I have said what i think so Let the voting start
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by geho89 1 year ago
geho89
I am curious about how this debate will turn out. The banning of meat, dairy, and eggs is an infringement of my freedom. Is my freedom worth less than that of other animals that enjoy this diet?
No votes have been placed for this debate.