The Instigator
Oskar
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
misterme
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

Mechanical Pencils vs Pens

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
misterme
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/11/2013 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,877 times Debate No: 30145
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

Oskar

Pro

Hello all!

As you may know, my last debate on the same topic was cancelled, as it had no structure or outline. This is my new debate, same thing though, and most importantly, same people; me(mechanical pencils) vs misterme(pens). In this debate, Pro/For = Mechanical Pencils and Con/Against = Pens. If you have anything else to say in a round, you may, but no more or less than 3 arguments. This goes the same for counters. Here's the new structure/outline:

Round 1:

Statement:

Argument:

1.

2.

3.

Round 2:

Counter:

1.

2.

3.


Round 3:

Argument:

1.

2.

3.

Round 4:

Counter:

1.

2.

3.

Argument:

1.

2.

3.

Round 5:

Counter:

1.

2.

3.

Conclusion:


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Round One:


Statement: Mechanical Pencils are far superior to pens. They are a work of art, while pens are a work of a 3 year old.
Argument:

1. Mechanical Pencils propell lead by means of an advanced mechanisms; advanced mechanisms are much cooler than a cap or a clicker. This means Mechanical Pencils are more artistic and badass.
2. Say if I had a 0.5 mm mechanical pencil, I could buy any 0.5 mm mechanical pencil lead for it. With a pen on the other hand, say if I had a pilot G-2, I would be forced to stick to the Pilot G-2 ink refills. As a result of this, mechanical pencil lead is much easier to get your hands on than specific ink refills. This makes mechanical pencils more versatile.
3. When ink starts to run out, it makes the pen scratchy and horrible, lead on the other hand stays the same smoothness no matter if it's on a fresh lead, or the lead is about to be completely depleated. This makes Mechanical Pencils more efficient.

I'm curious to see your arguments for why pens are best, and later on in round 2 your counter arguments to these fantabulous 3 arguments I've given!
Many thanks~

misterme

Con

I will begin by thanking my opponent for the opportunity and better structure lay for this debate than the last one.

Arguments
1. Pens are the standard in developed countries. They are used for formalities such as signatures.

2. They are permanent. The ink soaks into the paper and will remain for long periods of time whereas pencils markings are on the surface of the paper. Friction over time will wear pencil markings off.

3. Pens come in a variety of colors where mechanical pencils do not. A variety of colors are very beneficial for highlighting certain parts of text as well as color coding to differentiate different parts of text.

I await my opponents rebuttals.
Debate Round No. 1
Oskar

Pro

Round Two


Counter-Arguments:

1. Pens are the standard; standard is boring. Standard is plain, normal, average. Mechanical Pencil is more unique, even rebellious in a sense.
2. Mechanical Pencils are also permanent. Although maybe not as permanent as pen, that's the price you pay for erasibility. Contrary to popular belief, pencil is infact 99% permanent. Pencil does not fade. Infact, "Graphite Pencil is a very stable material. It does not fade in light. It does not bleed in water unless other dyes were added.". That there was a quote from the national archives, which was included in an article(1) by Joe Thorn, entitled "pencil does not fade". He contacted the national archives and even got photographic proof that pencil does not fade, which is included in the article. Pen, on the other hand, bleeds when it goes in water, no matter if it says waterproof, it will bleed after a while. I will conduct an experiment and take photographs to verify this.
3. This is false. Infact, mechanical pencil lead comes in a wide variety of colours, including blue, red, green, pink and orange.(2)
Thank you.




misterme

Con

Rebuttals
1. "Mechanical Pencils propell lead by means of an advanced mechanisms; advanced mechanisms are much cooler than a cap or a clicker. This means Mechanical Pencils are more artistic and badass."

Advanced mechanisms with more moving parts means a higher probability for the mechanism to break. A pen with a cap has no mechanism with less potential to break. The mechanism of mechanical pencils have broken on me before.

2. "Say if I had a 0.5 mm mechanical pencil, I could buy any 0.5 mm mechanical pencil lead for it. With a pen on the other hand, say if I had a pilot G-2, I would be forced to stick to the Pilot G-2 ink refills. As a result of this, mechanical pencil lead is much easier to get your hands on than specific ink refills. This makes mechanical pencils more versatile."

Pens to have universal refills. (1)

3. "When ink starts to run out, it makes the pen scratchy and horrible, lead on the other hand stays the same smoothness no matter if it's on a fresh lead, or the lead is about to be completely depleated. This makes Mechanical Pencils more efficient."

Pens do dry out and need to be scratched on paper before ink will come out again. However, the amount of time to do so is very insignificant. As well, small pieces of mechanical pencil lead often break off if accidentally press too hard which drastically lowers its efficiency.

Thanks.

Debate Round No. 2
Oskar

Pro

Arguments

1. I still do not believe pens have "universal refills", as you gave no proof. On this matter, pencils are still winning.
2. You can get many different sizes and hardness's of leads, but not many types of ink. You can get many different leads, such as hard, thin lead for technical drawing; HB, medium lead for general writing; and thick, dark lead for drawing and sketching. This gives a wider range of things you can do with a mechanical pencil.
3. Mechanical pencils don't break. You can't loose pieces of the internal mechanism of a mechanical pencil; it's all sealed shut. Pens, especially clicker pens, on the other hand, you can loose parts rendering the pen useless. Many people say that because mechanical pencils have more moving parts, they are more likely to break, however this is not true. First of all, mechanical pencils contain lead, which does not dry up in any way, which means the mechanism can't rust or anything. Pens on the other hand contain liquid ink which can rust and dry up the internal mechanism. Also, owning a mechanical pencil shows that you are responsible and mature enough to be able to own a precision instrument.
As always, I am looking forward to your response!
misterme

Con

Arguments
1. I first apologize for not stating any sources of my claim the pens also have universal refills. However I will do so now as my first argument. The refills are universal among the specific brand but are also very interchangeable among brands if necessary just as mechanical pencil leads. There are also "D1" size refills which are the standard for common ballpoint pens.
http://canada.ibuyofficesupply.com...

http://www.garlandpen.com...

http://www.jetpens.com...


2. Ball point pen tips come in many sizes just as mechanical pencils do. Hardness of lead can be beneficial only to an experienced pro. With out the experience hardness of lead is insignificant. For pens, the lack of different kinds of ink make it easier for the consumer to choose a pen.

3. My argument still holds valid that pens have a less of a chance to break because my opponent has not given evidence that a mechanical pencil doesn't break and a clicking pen mechanism can rust. I've had mechanical pencils break but not pens rust. Common sense tells us the more parts there are, the more things can go wrong. My opponent has the Burden of Proof on this point.

Since my opponent did not refute my rebuttal of his 3rd counter-argument in Round 2 I will take it as he conceded the point.

Thanks.
Debate Round No. 3
Oskar

Pro

First off, about my 3rd counter-argument in Round 2; I didn't think we were doing counter-counter arguments. If so, then I still think pens get scratchy, and I still think this is inefficient because if you were in a place where you can't just scribble, such as a business meeting or an important test, then you'd be stuck.
Counters:

1. These so-called "universal" refills are universal for the brand that they state, not all pens. For example, your first link is selling Cross universal refills, not refills that are universal for all pens, just cross pens. Even D1 refills don't fit every pen of a certain diameter, only the ones that have chosen to be compatible with D1. Mechanical Pencils on the other hand have lead which can fit ANY pencil with the diameter of the lead.
2. Ha! This made me laugh... You need to be an "experienced pro" to have different lead hardness's? It benefits everyone. If you use a mechanical pencil to write, you get a HB lead, or B if you like it a little softer. Sketchers/artists use darker, softer lead. Architects and engineers typically use very hard, light lead. I could go on and on... And lack of different kinds of ink doesn't make it easier. It's already hard enough already for those who may be slightly uneducated to pick the right ink for the right pen, but also they usually have a standard lead in stores. Are you trying to say that pencils are for people who want more choice in there lives, not just sticking to one, boring ink?
3. Look; Mechanical Pencils are for, and are use by, well educated people; engineers, artists, writers, and journalists to name a few. Not only do well educated people know how to have a job like the examples I just gave, but they also know how to own a precision instrument like a mechanical pencil. Going back to one of your earlier arguments, this is why pens are the standard; pens are a basic point-and-shoot, but aren't good for much else. Oh? I'd like to here your anecdote of a mechanical pencil "breaking", a photo maybe. I didn't say pens do rust, I said they are capable of rusting, since the ink is wet and a liquid. Mechanical Pencils only break if A) You're uneducated and do not know how to use anything other than a point-and-shoot pen or B) You have a 10 cent mechanical pencil or C) You threw it at a wall. They do not just break. Yes, a cheap, crappy mechanical pencil will break, just as a cheap, crappy pen will.
Arguments:

1. It is much easier to refill a mechanical pencil with lead than a pen with ink. Ink can get everywhere while replacing, lead stays clean. You can also share lead refills, by snapping some off. Ink though, you can't.
2. Lead has erasability and permeability(and I'm assuming you agree to this, as you didn't refute my rebuttal to your argument about "pencil not being permanent"), while pen is just... Permanent. Yes, there are erasable pens(Pilot Friction, etc.), but when they are erased they leave marks all over the page, and the ink is crappy.
3. Pen always ends up messy and horrible. It smudges, so it's terrible for lefties. The ink skips. I could go on and on and on... Pencil on the other hand, doesn't smudge, atleast mechanical pencils don't. I still stick to my argument that it's always smooth to write with, while pen is only when you just get it fresh out the packet, and even then sometimes it's scratchy.
Almost time for a conclusion!
misterme

Con

misterme forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Oskar

Pro

Oskar forfeited this round.
misterme

Con

misterme forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Drach 3 years ago
Drach
Pens look more professional an td are easier to read. Also you sign documents in pen. So I am going to have to agree on pens
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Daktoria 3 years ago
Daktoria
OskarmistermeTied
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Total points awarded:34 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro made sophisticated arguments for sophisticated people, but most people aren't sophisticated. They want something simple, reliable, and permanent when it comes to a writing utensil. "Hard leads" just aren't something most people can utilize or are interested in. They're just an interesting novelty.