The Instigator
Salemod
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Hansfordl
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Medea is Responsible for her Actions

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/26/2015 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 399 times Debate No: 74227
Debate Rounds (4)
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Salemod

Pro

Pro
1. Both parties agree that the debate will be in english.
2. Medea is responsible for her actions
3. The philosopher Seneca believes that anger is something that can be controlled
4. Back in Medea's time, there was no court of law, trials, or psychiatrists.
5. Jealousy is not a plausible reason to kill children.
6. The laws in her times stated that men are allowed to divorce women whenever they wanted.
7. No where in the definition of infidelity does it state that it allows one to kill children if infidelity is taken place.
8. Thus, because Medea is not able to be deemed mentally ill or control her anger and jealousy, she is responsible for her actions.

Non-Controversial
#1 and #2 - terms of debate
#8- conclusions
Controversial
#3. Seneca argues that anger can be controlled and so if it can be controlled, and she was acting out of anger by killing her children, then she should be held responsible.
#4. because there were none of these back in her time, there was no way to prove her innocent in a court of law, as we do now a days, and there was no one to deem her mentally unstable which might acquit her from these charges.
#5. Even if Medea was jealous that her husband left her for another woman, that does not give her the right to kill their children together as punishment. There is no such law or rule written to say that, that is acceptable.
#6. because the laws stated that men were allowed to divorce women at any time, her husband technically did not cheat on her because she has no rights to him, he can only control her. So because he did not cheat, there was no reason for her to get upset thus making her responsible for her children.
#7. Just because someone is cheated on, does not make it okay for them to kill their children as a form of punishment.
Hansfordl

Con

Con-
1.Medea is not responsible for her actions
2.I agree with the statement my opponent has addressed in premise 3; Seneca believe that anger is something that can be controlled. However he has also mentioned that violence "Whenever there is need of violent effort, the mind does not become angry, but it gathers itself together and is aroused or relaxed according to its estimate of the need."
3.Referring back to premise 2, the death of Medea"s children could have easily been from the arousal
4.As mentioned in my opponent"s 4th premise, no Seneca was not around to justify Medea"s actions"BUT to prove the "court of law, trials, or psychiatrists" we date back to these times to come up with logical excuses for people"s actions.
5. *( as mentioned in the 2nd premise Medea"s violence was due to some sort of arousal"according to Seneca)*
6.There is also no law stating that it"s legal for a man to commit adultery.
7.Thus, there is no possible proof why Medea should be held accountable for the actions she has committed against her children.
Non- controversial
Premise 1 is my counter argument
Premise 2 is in slight agreement with my opponent *(can be controversial)

Controversial
#2. With slight agreement with my opponent, I also mentioned that there is are also statements made by Seneca that suggest that there is also a reasoning for the violence people commit. Going back to the quote mentioned.
#4 Premise 4 is explaining Seneca"s logic behind ""violent effort, the mind does not become angry, but it gathers itself together and is aroused or relaxed according to its estimate of the need."
#5,6. This premise is proving that there is no right nor wrong to anyone"s actions. There are no documents stating that having affairs nor committing adultery is legal.
Debate Round No. 1
Salemod

Pro

1. Referring to my opponents arguments 2: so referring to your quote about violence, violence is then something controlled because you become aroused or relaxed, not angry so that would mean that if she is violent then Medea is responsible for her actions because violence is a conscious act.
2. From opponents argument 3: even if the children"s death was arousal, doesn"t that still make her responsible? Seneca talks about how anger is something we can control and so is violence and if arousal is a form of violence then it is a conscious decision.
3.From opponents argument 4: I'm not sure what you mean by this? My premise stated that there was no way to prove her innocent so in ancient times, she was considered guilty because there were no courts of law or psychiatrists to prove other wise.
4. Referring to opponents 6: There actually is a law stating that it is legal for a man to divorce a woman whenever and adultery was legal back in Medea"s era which makes her responsible for her actions because it is legal for her husband to do this to her.
5. Medea"s actions were of pure revenge, which holds her accountable for them.
6. Every human life is valuable and there are laws against murder, even in Medeas time, which makes her accountable for her actions.
7. Thus violence, as per Seneca"s definition, can be controlled which leaves Medea accountable.
Hansfordl

Con

1.In Medea"s defense, the killing of her children represented her marriage with Jason; to seek revenge
2.Under the assumption that my opponent believes that revenge is a reaction of anger; revenge can also be sought to show superiority or power.
3.Medea might have wanted to use her children deaths" as a way to prove that she is capable gaining power away from her husband.
4.Seneca viewed anger as a philosophical problem that could be treated.
5. So though Medea"s actions might seem wrong, it was a problem that does not deserve punishment"according to Seneca she needs to be treated.
6.Who"s to say that Medea reacted to her divorce out of anger, which can easily be misinterpreted. Like Seneca, for example, he reacted calmly before execution; Medea could have been just as calm while murdering her sons.
7.Thus, Medea may have wanted to seek revenge on her husband, however, it may have been to gain superiority. And in the act of the murder, Medea may have also been entirely emotionless.
Debate Round No. 2
Salemod

Pro

1. I agree with your first statement that it was defense but protecting one's self still does not give them the right to kill another human being.
2. While superiority is a good point, I believe that in this situation it may not be completely applicable and anger is a more reasonable response to revenge.
3. Number three is a good point and as a women, it is hard to gain power but gaining power still leaves her responsible for her children's death because a life is something that cannot be taken back where as power can be distributed and change.
4. So if it can be treated then it is a problem. And if it is a problem she should still be responsible for her actions.
5. Treatment may be the way to fix it but it still leaves her responsible for bed actions.
6. Well if she was calm that is definitely scary to think that she knew what she was doing and it wasn't out of angee. That almost proves she is guilty because she is fully aware of her actions.
7. Therefore Medea is responsible for her actions because all of these things like power and revenge are only temporary and it still leaves her responsible.
8. Therefore because she might not have acted out of anger and was completely calm while killing her children, she understands what she did and is responsible for her actions.
Hansfordl

Con

1.As mentioned in the last round, I stated that she might have acted calmly to the murder of her children
2.It wasn"t easy for her and I"m sure she struggled to do so with her motherly instincts, but her revenge was much more important.
3.In response my opponent"s concern of the about superiority"if we go back to the script, after the murder of her children Jason begs to have his sons remains for burial. However, Medea refuses and takes the corpses"
4.Keeping the remains of her sons could have been her way of showing her superiority (as mentioned previously) leaving her husband to mourn helplessly.
5.This shows that she is very insensitive to the loss of her children and more concerned with her husband"s feelings.
6.Medea should not be accountable for her actions because the blame would be on her husband
7.Had he not committed adultery, their sons would still be a alive
8.Therefore, Medea"s emotions could have very well been muted during the murder of her children &should not be held responsible for that
Debate Round No. 3
Salemod

Pro

1. Even in a court of law today, there is no excuse for murder except for self defense and Medea was not using self defense when killing her children.
2. Jealousy is not an excuse for murder considering it was legal for men to commit adultery in her era.
3. If Medea had a mental issue it was not able to be diagnosed during her time which leaves her responsible
4. Seneca states that anger can be controlled and if that is the case then Medea is responsible for her actions.
5. If she was not angry and knew what she was doing calmly then she is responsible for her actions on the basis that she was aware of her actions and consequences.
6. Revenge is not a reason for murder and leaves her responsible for her actions.
7. Therefore Medea is responsible for her actions
Hansfordl

Con

1.Partially agreeing with my opponent in the first premise, however the court of law now, is a lot different in the Medea"s time
2.Jealously was never mentioned as a reason why Medea murdered her sons; argument is on anger
3.Like revenge, jealousy can be used as a way to gain superiority
4.Medea seems to often be discredited for the murdering of her sons, but she was willing to betray her own family to be with Jason shows her loyalty to him
5."my children, there is none who can give them safety." A quote from medea, as she believes that if her sons were to stay in this world, they would have to live with the cowardly mistakes their father has made.
6.It is often misunderstood that the death of her sons, was more difficult for Medea, than for Jason
7.Therefore, Medea should not be accountable for her actions. She was completely selfless when doing so.
Debate Round No. 4
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