The Instigator
eyonairy
Pro (for)
Tied
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The Contender
chowdhuryn7
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Medea is responsible for her actions.

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/6/2015 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 348 times Debate No: 74877
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (0)

 

eyonairy

Pro

Premise:
1. Anger is an emotional feeling of being displeasured when the person experiences a wrong-doing.
2. There are different stages of being angry starting from ignoring the person to display acts of violence towards the person.
3. Anger could at times be controlled but overall it is a natural instinct when living organism feels betrayed.
4. Anger can stem from discontent of certain outcomes that comes out negative when you hoped for a positive.
5. Medea's anger stems from being betrayed by her children who she thought would take care of her in her later years as she has done for them in their earlier years.
6. Although Medea was slighted in some way by her family the deaths of her children is entirely her fault without any excuses.
7. Medea has the capability of practicing self-control whenever placed in a a difficult situation however difficult it might have been and should not act out of impulse.
8. Medea is the adult in the situation of the narrative and should know the difference between right and wrong for her years of wisdom.
9. Medea is responsible for her actions because as a mother her main concern should be of taking care of her children and never letting them get into any harm which she did the opposite.
10. Medea consciously knew she was wrong because she would at times talk herself out of committing this crime.
11. Medea did this crime out of spite and greed because she only worried about herself and did not take into consideration the needs or wants of her children.
12. Therefore, Medea is fully responsible of her action since she is the one who is physically and mentally more capable then the children themselves.

Non-Controversial Premise:
Non-controversial premises will included 1,2,3,4,5, and 10. Premise 1,2,3, and 4 are general definitions of what anger means. Premise 5 is simply stating why Medea feels this type of anger in the play. Premise 10 is facts reinstating how Medea knew the decision was not a right one or else she would not have feel guilty.

Controversial Premise:
6. I am stating my belief to the best of my understand about this play that her actions were her fault and is not able to justify it just because she was angry. Anger is a feeling not a method of confinement.
7. I believe as Medea has been given education, even the smallest amount, she was taught when to speak when spoken to, when to and how to react to certain situations, etc. that will help her develop self-control.
8. I believe Medea has experienced situations in the past for example knowing when not to cross the street or knowing not to put her hand in the fire for her to have common sense.
9. A mothers instinct is to always want to protect their kids since the develop a special bond with them through pregnancy.
11. Medea committed this crime for selfish reason as soon as she realized her kids would not be taking care of her exactly how she would have hoped. A thought of such sort is selfish on its out because one should not bring a child into this world so that the person can feel loves it should be because they want to spread the love.
chowdhuryn7

Con

2. I agree with your statement. When a person is angry, they are capable of ignoring the person they are angry at or even harming that person physically.
5. I agree with your statement. Medea"s anger originated from her high expectations of her kids. She had too much hope for them.
6. I do not agree with your statement. Medea is not fully responsible for killing her kids. Her kids provoked her to kill them.
7. I partially agree with your statement. It is possible that Medea could have controlled her anger. However, that is not a capability that everyone has. Acting out of impulse is human nature. It is not easy to control yourself. It does take a lot of practice. If you think of it from Medea"s point of view, it was the only choice she had.
8. I agree with your statement. Medea should know the difference between right and wrong because she is an adult. However, not all adults know the difference.
9. I do not agree with your statement. Medea being responsible or not for her actions has nothing to do with her being a mother.
10. I agree with your statement. She contemplates the situation several times.
11. I do not agree with your statement. Medea"s children didn"t take Medea"s needs and wants into consideration. They should have been better children. Medea"s action, of killing her children, was not selfish.
12. Therefore, Medea is not responsible for her actions.

Non-Controversial Premises: Premises 2,5,8, and 10. Premise 2 is just describing the stages of anger. Premise 5 is just stating the cause for Medea"s anger. Premise 8 is stating the knowledge a person should normally have. Premise 10 is just a fact from the narrative.

Controversial Premises: Premises 3, 6,7, 9, and 11.
3.If anger can be controlled, then how is it a natural instinct? A natural instinct is like a reflex, something that you automatically do.
6. You are stating your opinion on Medea"s actions, but mine are different. I do not believe that she is fully responsible for her actions.
7. Anger cannot always be controlled, it is something that needs a lot of practice, as you have stated. So maybe, Medea does not have the capability to control her anger.
9. Not all mothers develop a special bond with their babies during pregnancy. If they did, then the idea of adoptions wouldn"t exist. Medea"s cannot be fully responsible for her actions.
11. Medea was not selfish, her kids were selfish.

Questions:
1. What do you mean by a person experiencing a wrong-doing?
6. What can you define "slight" as? Can slight be defined as being disrespected, or treated wrongly, or fooled by someone that you expected more from?
4. Are you saying that anger only has to do with not being happy?
Debate Round No. 1
eyonairy

Pro

1. When I mentioned wrong-doing as being part the initial complaint to spark the anger inside of someone I meant it as a wrong occurrence happening to them. To explain further the person was treated wrong or spoken to wrong or anything to do with not feeling as if the situation was a good one to be in. The person experience an unpleasant action and has been a victim of something wrong being done to them.
3. Anger is a natural instinct because we are born with the certain characteristic in us just as the ability to be happy, hungry, sleepy etc. As we get older we learn how to control the urges and to only express them in moderation and in the appropriate manner. Just as any other instinct it can be control through education. For example, a lions natural instinct is to eat and kill and gazelle. The lion although hungry and IMPATIENT( I put it in all caps to make the comparison to Medea) the lion learns how to hunt by first checking out the scene learn how to creep on them without getting noticed and then executes his plan to kill. If the lion could learn to control his instinct a human can as well.
4. Yes, I do. I believe anger is only when a person is not happy. You may interpret as anger being an attachment to other feelings but I do not think so anger is not a feeling attached to other feelings. For example, you can not be happy you won a basketball but be angry the other team did not win. If more that two feelings are being felt at the sane time then it would be labeled as bi-polar. If someone is angry then that is all they choose to experience and no other reason can justify it.
6. Slight could be defined as being disrespected or thought less of by someone they thought held them to a certain level. This is the perfect example as to what Medea felt. Since she "thought" she was thought as less then she committed murder. None of her children ever said that nor ever implied it Medea was most likely depressed herself and her children had to suffer the consequences.
7. I can slightly agree with your opinion but very slightly. This is because she did live in a time period where depression or insecurity I'm sure was not one of the main topics to be spoken about or even given help to especially the mother but she did show some self-control that is why I cannot agree completely. In the narrative it is shown how she tries to convince herself not to murder her children and does so and even if she was controlling herself for five minutes in between those thoughts it was enough for her to know parts of her plan was wrong.
9. Adoption actually proves my theory regarding special bond. In majority of adoption cases the mother fights back for custody or the most common the child themselves go investigating for their birth mothers. Every human mother no matter how tough or unemotional they may be to the naked eye as soon as they have a child in the womb they will always have a magical unexplainable moms. There has also been cases where women who have miscarriages or abortions would need therapy to help get over the fact they had another human being in them that could have possibly been born. If Medea dud not have a special bond with these children she would have not contemplated about killing them so much she would have done it the first time one of them would have done anything wrong but she did not because she has self-control and love for her children.
11. Medea's children were obviously self sushi because they are children. They do not know any better. They have not yet experienced depictions where they would have to decided on anything that will also effect others by it. If given the chance Medea's children would have eventually developed compassion towards their mother. For example, when a 15 year old yells back to their parents she does not realize how bad it makes them feel until the 15 year old grows up and experiences the same with her children. It is called life and Medea did not give them the chance to learn from it because she was too busy worrying about herself then and there.
chowdhuryn7

Con

1. In that case, I agree with your definition of anger. Anger has to do with someone feeling like they have been wronged or victimized. That is what sparks the anger. A person feels like they had have something wrong done to them by someone else or a group of other people.
3. I partially agree with your statement. Anger is an emotion that humans are capable of having but it it not something that we learn to control as we grow older because not all adults learn to control their anger as they get older. Some people are never mature enough to control their anger. As Seneca believed, to stop anger, you have to stop having expectations for someone to behave a certain way. If you don"t have any expectations, no one will destroy your hopes and you won"t be angered. However, not everyone is capable of not having hopes, because as humans, we all naturally tend to have hopes for something or someone. Medea was a person, who also could not control her urge to have hopes. She had hopes for her children to grow up to be a certain way and do certain things for her. She wanted them to take care of her how she had taken care of them, but was disappointed to learnt they would not be doing that. So she had to kill them out of anger.
4. I agree with your statement. I believe you are saying that anger only comes with negative feelings and no positive ones, such as happiness. Anger is usually accompanied by a feeling of resentment towards someone, which would be a negative feeling. Anger might also cause someone to plan out a revenge to get the other person back.
6. I am not sure what you are saying in this statement. I do agree with your definition of slight. However, how can you infer that Medea was depressed from the text? She might have been hurt and feeling sad, but those are feelings that everyone is capable of at times to times. You do not have to be depressed to feel this way.
7. It is possible that Medea knew she was doing something wrong but that still does not make it entirely her fault. If she could have controlled her anger, she would have stopped from doing wrong and killing her children. However, she also had wrong done to her and that is why she reacted in such a way. The anger was building up inside of her and she could not control it anymore. Even if she did know it was wrong.
9. Medea could have been contemplating about what she wanted to do with her children because she didn"t have a special bond with her children. If she had a special bond with her kids, she would have never even thought about harming them. She obviously didn"t have a special bond with her children. The thought on abortion, adopted kids look for their biological parents because they need closure. They want to know why their mom or dad left them. They feel unloved because someone gave them up so they want to know why someone gave them up. I don"t agree with you saying "every human mother." Not all mothers have a bond with their kids. The cold and unemotional side of them counts.
11. I am not sure what you mean by "self sushi." I am guessing that is a typo. Children or not, most kids take their mothers for granted. Even adults act this way towards their mother. No matter how much their mother does for them, they are always ungrateful. They are always critical, "It should be better, bigger, or greater." They ask for things they don"t deserve from their parents and they are always unappreciative. Medea"s children were the same way with Medea. A mother cannot wait until her kids become parents to be appreciated. Most mother do wait, but not all are capable of that type of patience. Medea might have been selfish in what they did but her kids were selfish too.
Debate Round No. 2
eyonairy

Pro

3. Anger is too an emotion that could be controlled which is what Buddhism agrees on. The views of practice Buddhism is too agree that anger should be close to being non-existent as possible. This philosophy also teaches how a person should control their anger and not act on solely on it. Breathing exercises is the most common form to reduce the level of anger. Anger is an emotion that is meant to be controlled or else others would not be so convinced in the many ways of meditatin and etc. Medea could have controlled her anger because even though she had hopes of her children taking care of her as she did to them she could have taken a moment to rationalize and meditate on her plans.
6. I made the assumption Medea was depressed based on her reasoning behind her actions. Yes, she was overall angry at the fact that she could not live the life she planned but perhaps this was due to years of depression. A person does not simply wake up one day and want to kill their children because she just noticed they are not living their destined life. This overwhelming urge to kill could have stemmed from months or maybe years of depression. As mentioned before anger come from feeling betrayed or thought less then and that sounds like symptoms stemming from depression as well.
7. There is a saying that goes "two wrongs do not make a right". Medea being the grown up in the situation should have known better angry or not. She had moments were she was lucid and knew what she was doing and that is all that really counts. If this case were to go to trial she would have been found guilty for consciously knowing what she did and still did it.
9. Okay I can now see what you mean by not having the special bond because then she would have not killed them at all. I agree with your arguement for this statement.
11. Yes there was a typo I mean to write selfish. Regardless of how fed up Medea would have been she was suppose to understand that they will not understand and process their actions as being good or bad, that is why a child is constantly taught what is wrong or right as they grow up with due time but Medea wanted to rush this process as if a five year old can have the same thought processing system of an adult. It is unreal to think a child could understand majority of the stuff going around them. Boys at that age are still trying to figure out why they have certain features that are different from girls. Everything at the age is confusing and knowing how to be considerate is far from anything they are able to understand as well. It is common psychology.
chowdhuryn7

Con

3. Medea could have controlled her anger but she didn"t. The feeling was too strong for her to ignore it. She could have meditated on her thoughts. Meditation has been proven to work to suppress anger but she did not do it because she didn"t have any thoughts on meditating on it. She believed what she was doing was the right thing to do. Maybe she knew deep down it was wrong, but the anger made her act on it immediately.
6. What about her reasonings made you believe she was depressed? I do not believe it was due to years of depression. It was due to the fact that she was upset. She was upset that her husband left her for another woman and she had to hurt him somehow. It was mainly his fault and partly the children"s fault. She had a thought about how her children wouldn"t care for her as she did for them, and this upset her. If her children were good kids, then maybe she would have spared their life in her ridiculous idea for revenge. This feeling of sadness then turned into anger. I believe her anger towards her children was something that grew over a certain time period, maybe a few days. I do not believe that her depression grew, or that she was depressed at all. At least, that is not how I understood the text. Her anger probably grew and she finally came to a decision. We do see this in the text because she continuously contemplates on killing her children.
7. If this case were to go to jail, she would go to jail anyway because killing is against the law. However, that still would not change the fact that her kids had it coming because their father left the family. You cannot only count Medea responsible. Yes, the court would but that is a different case. Medea is a grown up but not all grown ups have the capability to behave like the bigger person. Medea was obviously a very incompetent, and immature grown-up. She did not act like the bigger person and she also didn"t know how to control her anger. But we still cannot avoid the father"s faults in all of this. Their father slighted her. She was their mother and she deserved to be treated the way she treated them. Their father broke her trust by not doing this. She probably thought her kids would turn out just like their father since they are of the same blood.
11. Yes, Medea was wrong to rush her kids to be grown-ups. However, as a mother she had some expectations. Mothers have expectations for their kids as soon as they are born. Medea also had these expectations. Medea was just upset earlier about knowing that these kids weren"t what she expected. Most parents come to this conclusion much later, like when their kids graduate from college. However, Medea did not just kill her children because she was disappointed in them. She killed them to take revenge on their father, who had left them. That is mainly why she contemplated on killing them because she didn"t want to kill the kids just for that reason but she convinced herself that her kids will never do anything for her anyway. You cannot blame her for taking revenge. It seems like her husband deserved it for leaving the family. She had to hurt him somehow.
Debate Round No. 3
eyonairy

Pro

1. Anger is an emotional feeling of being displeasured when the person experiences a wrong-doing.
2. There are different stages of being angry starting from ignoring the person to display acts of violence towards the person.
3. Anger could at times be controlled but overall it is a natural instinct when living organism feels betrayed.
4. Anger can stem from discontent of certain outcomes that comes out negative when you hoped for a positive.
5. Medea's anger stems from being betrayed by her children who she thought would take care of her in her later years as she has done for them in their earlier years.
6. Although Medea was slighted in some way by her family the deaths of her children is entirely her fault without any excuses.
7. Medea has the capability of practicing self-control whenever placed in a a difficult situation however difficult it might have been and should not act out of impulse.
8. Medea is the adult in the situation in the narrative and should know the difference between right and wrong.
9. Medea is responsible for her actions because as a mother her main concern should be taking care of her children and never letting them get into any harm which she did the opposite.
10. Medea consciously knew she was wrong because she would at times talk herself out of committing this crime.
11. Medea did this crime out of spite and greed because she only worried about herself and did not take into consideration the needs and wants of her children.
12. Therefore, Medea is fully responsible for her actions since she is the one who is physically and mentally more capable then the children themselves.

I have made my point very clear in declaring Medea guilty as my opponent has agreed with me on several premises. Medes actions were driven solely on selfishness. A big problem my opponent had against my claim was that she strongly believed Medea was only acting out on Anger because she could not control that emotion which is proven to not be true. There has been many philosophical teaching such as Seneca and Buddhism that firmly believe anger is controllable and it should not be an action in which us humans act on or let define us. Referencing to Senecas teachings Medea should have already expected for her children to not understand her pain since they are indeed children who are only beginning to understand things in life. Referencing to Buddhism Medea should have taken the time to step back analyze and meditate with breathing excesses for her to come at peace with herself and would have probably not committed this crime at all. Unlike animals humans should not be accustomed to acting on impulse for it shows a bad judge of character and often makes the situation worse then it already was. Confronting problems in a civilized manner comes a long way in preventing any altercations.
chowdhuryn7

Con

1.I agree with your definition of anger because I also believe that anger is a feeling that takes over a person when they are faced with a wrong-doing.
2.I agree with this premise. Anger does cause a variety of reactions from a person. The one who feels victimized might ignore the one who wronged him or act violent towards who wronged him.
3.It is possible to control anger through such practices such as meditation, as the Buddhists believed. However, Medea did not control her anger. She could have but she didn"t want to, it was a feeling that took over her body too quickly.
4.I agree with this statement. A person might get angry when they hope for a positive outcome but get a negative outcome.
5.I agree with this statement. Medea"s anger did come from her having too many hopes for her children. However, it mainly comes from her husband leaving her. This is what causes the anger in her to kill her children.
6.Medea was slighted by her husband and her kids. Her husband left her for another woman. He just left her to take care of their kids by herself. Her kids also slighted her. She had such high expectations for them, and she wanted them to take care of her one day. However, her kids would never take care of her the way she took care of them. So it was not Medea"s fault that she killed her kids. It was Medea"s husband and their kids" fault.
7.Medea obviously did not have the capability to control her anger. Not all adults are capable of this difficult task. Medea should have learned to control her anger, but she didn"t. She has to first recognize her anger to stop it from overpowering her that is what Seneca believed.
8.I agree with this statement. Medea is an adult and normally, adults know the difference between right and wrong.
9.Normal mothers care for their children because they usually have a bond with their children Medea is not a normal mother because she does not care for her children. She should have, but she doesn"t because her kids don"t care for her either.
10.I agree with this statement. Medea did contemplate on killing her children. It is written in the text.
11.Her children and their father were also selfish. They all slighted Medea. Her husband left her. The kids destroyed her hopes and dreams for them. So she killed the kids to hurt the father.
12.Therefore, it is not Medea"s fault. Her kids and her husband are also to blame.

I believe that I have contradicted myself many times by agreeing that with my opponent and saying that Medea is not a good mother. However, that still does not make everything her fault. I made it clear that her husband and kids are also to blame. She was a mother and her family was everything she had and that same family betrayed her. There was nothing else she was to do. Yes, she should have controlled the situation better. Maybe if she understood Seneca"s teachings on anger, she would have known that it is an emotion that should completely be eliminated. If she knew about Buddhism, she would have embraced her anger as soon as she recognized it. She was not a good mother and she didn"t control the situation very well. But she had no choice. She felt upset and did an irrational thing. It is not fair to blame everything on her. At least the father should be blamed for half of this. He left his entire family for another woman. A man should not be leaving his family to fend for their own. Medea was alone and she was confused, and extremely hurt. The last thing she wanted to do was stare at her children and remember who gave them to her. She would look at them and remember her deceitful husband. Yes, it is unfair for the children to die in this situation. Maybe they would have grown up and fulfilled Medea"s dreams for them. It is true, currently, they were disappointing Medea but maybe one day they would grow up and understand. But Medea is hopeless and has lost her patience. I am not saying that she doesn"t have any responsibility for her actions, but she should share it with her husband and her kids.
Debate Round No. 4
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