The Instigator
DrStrangeLuv
Pro (for)
Winning
30 Points
The Contender
mb852
Con (against)
Losing
24 Points

Men should be able to abandon their child

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 10 votes the winner is...
DrStrangeLuv
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/16/2010 Category: Society
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,047 times Debate No: 13396
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (20)
Votes (10)

 

DrStrangeLuv

Pro

In the US, women have the right to continue or terminate their pregnancy, regardless of their partner's wishes, due to very obvious factors (i.e. right to their own body). Because a man has no say in what his partner does, at least legally, he should lawfully have the option to sever his ties with the woman and the child before it is born, requiring no payments of child support or any sort of attention from him.

This is not a debate about the morality of men abandoning their children and partners, much like how morality does not play a part in the current laws on abortion. I in no way condone a man who abandons an unwanted child merely because of that fact. I also respect the rights of women and their choice to use abortion or not.

From here on out I will use the phrase "child support" to make reference to all acts of financial aide that the child receives.

In order to prevent any off topic discussion, let us assume that such a law can only take effect BEFORE the child is born, and that the man must make his decision to care for the child or not before its delivery.

This is my first debate here, so please point out any more information that I should include next time I start one. Thank you.
mb852

Con

The use of the word "should" would make this a moral debate not a legal debate....if we just examine the law, we see that a man simply does not have the option to abandon his child.....a woman, on the other hand, does have the option to terminate her pregnancy....that's the legal facts...

If you want to debate whether a man should be able to abandon his child, it would inevitably be a moral argument just as it is in the case of abortion....in the case of abortion, the liberal argument that it is morally wrong for a woman to be forced to carry her baby to term has won out.
Debate Round No. 1
DrStrangeLuv

Pro

If my opponent wishes to take this onto moral grounds then I shall try my best to accommodate.

My opponent stated that "in the case of abortion, the liberal argument that it is morally wrong for a woman to be forced to carry her baby to term has won out" and it is undeniable that nobody should be restricted to what they can and can't do to their bodies. But what about in terms of money and time? For example: the women has made her choice pertaining to her body. The sexual act which resulted in her pregnancy was performed by two consenting individuals. Since the man has no say in what the woman does, is it not by common sense he should be able to relinquish his own connection to her? By legal terms no baby exists yet. Being able to make the choice to formally renounce the woman and her child should be an option on the table if both parties do not see eye to eye on the issue.
mb852

Con

"it is undeniable that nobody should be restricted to what they can and can't do to their bodies. But what about in terms of money and time?"-- In terms of money and time, we are all restricted to what we can and cannot do...it's a bad comparison...we don't have a choice in the amount of taxes we pay or what the money is spent on.

The sexual act that resulted in the pregnancy was engaged in by two consenting adults, so the responsibility of the child must bear upon both individuals. Even before the child is born, the father should not be allowed to abandon the mother, and therefore the child. The father has a moral obligation to take care of his child, and since it is being carried by the mother, he has to take care of her to do so.

To clarify:
Legally: A father can't abandon the child...the mother can before it is born...just the facts
Morally: Neither the mother or the father should be able to abandon the baby THEY created....the baby didn't create itself and has every right to live...with the support of both parents.
Debate Round No. 2
DrStrangeLuv

Pro

"In terms of money and time, we are all restricted to what we can and cannot do...it's a bad comparison...we don't have a choice in the amount of taxes we pay or what the money is spent on."
---We do indeed have the right to choose, to an extent, what the money is used for, and if we do not like taxes we can simply move out of this country and maybe find some secluded place where there are no taxes. Unpractical? yes, but the option is there. There is no legal binding that states you have to remain where you are and pay these fees. Much unlike how some men are forced into paying for children they do not want, nor intended to conceive.

"The sexual act that resulted in the pregnancy was engaged in by two consenting adults, so the responsibility of the child must bear upon both individuals."
---according to the law, the choice of the woman to continue the pregnancy or not is the real reason that both adults assume some responsibility. The man has no say in the matter and is, currently, at the whim of the woman's decision.

"Even before the child is born, the father should not be allowed to abandon the mother, and therefore the child."
---How can you legally bind one person to another? Neither are married. You are suggesting some kind of indentured servitude on the man's part. The law does not recognize an unborn child as a citizen or a human being so it has no status and might as well not exist pertaining to legal matters.

"Legally: A father can't abandon the child...the mother can before it is born...just the facts"
---The law can change.

"Morally: Neither the mother or the father should be able to abandon the baby THEY created....the baby didn't create itself and has every right to live...with the support of both parents."
---Unless you are living in a society controlled by laws, all actions are inherently amoral. When we start attaching stigmas and punishments to certain actions we create good and evil.

=========

I ask what my opponents basis is for morality. Is it religion? Law? perhaps a combination of his own personal feelings and thoughts? What is normal and right for one culture could be entirely different for another. The couples of Sparta left their children to die on a mountain side if they did not immediately appear to be in good health. That was perfectly moral to them. What I am proposing is that men should be able to abandon their child. They are not killing the child, nor are they harming the mother. And if a man chooses this path, perhaps he was better off not being a father to the child at all, instead of the imposed position they must adhere to by law. All they are doing is removing themselves from the picture, legally, after the mother made a decision for him that he could not honor.

On the basis of sex, I believe both people are equally responsible for any fetus's formed. If it is consensual, how can the man be more responsible? It baffles me how some people still believe it is the man's fault for a pregnancy.

I'd like to thank you for accepting my debate, its my first one and very fun. perhaps we can argue over something more defined next time around.
mb852

Con

I'll just go down the line:

-We do not have ANY say in what the money (taxes) is spent on...it is true that we can vote out the representatives that spent it, but the money is long gone by then...moving out of the country does not give you a say in what the taxes you have already paid get spent on...

-"according to the law, the choice of the woman to continue the pregnancy or not is the real reason that both adults assume some responsibility. The man has no say in the matter and is, currently, at the whim of the woman's decision."....True...doesn't change the fact that the man is morally responsible for the child.....I said man not because only he is responsible, but because I thought it was a given that the woman is responsible.

-"How can you legally bind one person to another? Neither are married. You are suggesting some kind of indentured servitude on the man's part. The law does not recognize an unborn child as a citizen or a human being so it has no status and might as well not exist pertaining to legal matters."...Well, I thought we were talking morality not legality....remember? "If my opponent wishes to take this onto moral grounds then I shall try my best to accommodate."...So, I am morally (and legally, I guess since a man can't abandon the child currently) binding the man to his CHILD, not the woman....she just comes with the kid....As for the law not recognizing the child, again, we are talking morality since you said "should".

-Yes the law can change, but right now it is what it is.

-There is good and evil....putting aside religion, we can see that it benefits the child to have a father...thats good...

-"I ask what my opponents basis is for morality. Is it religion? Law? perhaps a combination of his own personal feelings and thoughts? What is normal and right for one culture could be entirely different for another. The couples of Sparta left their children to die on a mountain side if they did not immediately appear to be in good health. That was perfectly moral to them."....Basis for morality is my common sense and observations I have made over my lifetime....If you talk about this country's laws then you can't talk about the morality of other cultures...

-"They are not killing the child, nor are they harming the mother."...the absence of a father harms the child..."after the mother made a decision for him that he could not honor."....HE made the decision when he had sex with her....

-"On the basis of sex, I believe both people are equally responsible for any fetus's formed. If it is consensual, how can the man be more responsible? It baffles me how some people still believe it is the man's fault for a pregnancy."...I never said the man was MORE responsible...morally, he and the mother should both care for the child.

I thank you for posing the debate and look forward to arguing over something more defined.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
20 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by LiquidLiquid 6 years ago
LiquidLiquid
I initially did not votebomb, but due to circumstances.....

If you can't beat them, join them.
Posted by Loserboi 6 years ago
Loserboi
everybody is votebombing this debate... -__-
Posted by Itsallovernow 6 years ago
Itsallovernow
Con is wrong. Should means this is a policy debate
Posted by adealornodeal 6 years ago
adealornodeal
"And if a man chooses this path, perhaps he was better off not being a father to the child at all, instead of the imposed position they must adhere to by law."

I personally know people whose parents were in such a situation, and after seeing their experiences with their fathers and reading that sentence, I give my vote to the pro.
Posted by Loserboi 6 years ago
Loserboi
Kodyharris votebombed you can't vote on resources, and conduct like that. Nobody insulted anybody and both had no references
Posted by DrStrangeLuv 6 years ago
DrStrangeLuv
@shifty46

But despite being very obvious, the fact remains that it is sill not legal to abandon an unborn child. So there must be someone out there who can challenge this...
Posted by shifty46 6 years ago
shifty46
I like the topic debate, but the fact that it is solely about the legality of the subject makes it a debate that would be very difficult to win. There is no question that it should be legal to abandon your child and your opening argument about the abortion and the right to your body shuts down almost all competition. Good luck finding an opponent.
Posted by ReptiDeath 6 years ago
ReptiDeath
Yeah women... they always pull the "oh were so week without our man's money" but they never let them make any of the important decisions... a women is allowed to abort a baby why shouldnt a man be able to do the same? figuratively speaking?
Posted by Sieben 6 years ago
Sieben
I'm agreeing with everyone else that the resolution is hardcore pro bias. You need to change it to "men should always be allowed to abandon their children" or something that gives you more even ground. If you want to have a debate that everyone agrees is fair though, consider choosing one of the UIL or NFL resolutions.
Posted by DrStrangeLuv 6 years ago
DrStrangeLuv
if you want to debate this, please accept it Sieben. Its my first one and I am just looking forward to being challenged by someone.
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